This is more of a rant then a question in regards to Voice Command 1.6 not
functioning properly with mono bluetooth headset on my HTC Trinity and for
the most part pretty much all new generation WM5/6 devices. Search Voice
Command 1.6 in google and you'll find hundreds of posts from people upset at
the fact that Voice Commands Bluetooth functionality doesn't work.

Now yes I know some devices just aren't capable and I've also read that the
problem with HTC devices is their implementaton of Bluetooth on newer devices
isn't according to spec. As seems to be the case with other manufactures too!
Will you think that two companies that are partnered so closely together when
it comes to developing/promoting Windows Mobile devices would have seen this
before the release of Voice Command 1.6 or at least came up with some kind of
solution by now. HTC doesn't seem to care about fixing it, Microsoft is very
quiet about it, even their website is inaccurate as to Voice Command
outputting sound on WM5 revisions prior to a certain version.

I'm sure it may not be an easy fix or maybe it is but in either case it's a
real shame because Voice Command is an amazing application. It's one of those
killer apps that once you start using it you can't live without it. I was
using it on my old HTC Wizard without any problems and it was awesome, being
able to dial without having to pre-record voice tags, hearing incoming
callers, emails, appointments ect without having to look at your phone. Most
devices can't touch this ease of use, not even the hyped up IPhone and you'd
think Microsoft would realize this enough to get some kind of fix out.

I saw an interview with someone at Microsoft showing how they were opening
up Voice Command API so other applications could incorporate the voice
recognition into their devices, this was awesome and I look forward to it. Of
course this is still in the early stage. At least there is some development
going on with Voice Command but how about releasing a working Voice Command
patch for mono bluetooth headsets instead making us wait for a whole new
version which will require a new device!

Anyway I hope eventually Micrisoft or HTC or both will come up with some
kind of solution as well other vendors!

Have to agree here I recently purchased VC1.6 and overall I am very happy
8/10.

I have a Blueant bluetooth in my car and because I am prior to a specific
build I don't get any function through the bluetooth until I have made a
phone call. Bit of a bugger really.

Otherwise lets hope for an update soon.

BTW I am running an i-Mate Jasjam

--
Dan Field





"Joe V" <JoeV@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:ECEE3F61-0D5C-4C51-91B2-F9EEFD1D4466@microsoft.com...
>
> This is more of a rant then a question in regards to Voice Command 1.6 not
> functioning properly with mono bluetooth headset on my HTC Trinity and for
> the most part pretty much all new generation WM5/6 devices. Search Voice
> Command 1.6 in google and you'll find hundreds of posts from people upset
> at
> the fact that Voice Commands Bluetooth functionality doesn't work.
>
> Now yes I know some devices just aren't capable and I've also read that
> the
> problem with HTC devices is their implementaton of Bluetooth on newer
> devices
> isn't according to spec. As seems to be the case with other manufactures
> too!
> Will you think that two companies that are partnered so closely together
> when
> it comes to developing/promoting Windows Mobile devices would have seen
> this
> before the release of Voice Command 1.6 or at least came up with some kind
> of
> solution by now. HTC doesn't seem to care about fixing it, Microsoft is
> very
> quiet about it, even their website is inaccurate as to Voice Command
> outputting sound on WM5 revisions prior to a certain version.
>
> I'm sure it may not be an easy fix or maybe it is but in either case it's
> a
> real shame because Voice Command is an amazing application. It's one of
> those
> killer apps that once you start using it you can't live without it. I was
> using it on my old HTC Wizard without any problems and it was awesome,
> being
> able to dial without having to pre-record voice tags, hearing incoming
> callers, emails, appointments ect without having to look at your phone.
> Most
> devices can't touch this ease of use, not even the hyped up IPhone and
> you'd
> think Microsoft would realize this enough to get some kind of fix out.
>
> I saw an interview with someone at Microsoft showing how they were opening
> up Voice Command API so other applications could incorporate the voice
> recognition into their devices, this was awesome and I look forward to it.
> Of
> course this is still in the early stage. At least there is some
> development
> going on with Voice Command but how about releasing a working Voice
> Command
> patch for mono bluetooth headsets instead making us wait for a whole new
> version which will require a new device!
>
> Anyway I hope eventually Micrisoft or HTC or both will come up with some
> kind of solution as well other vendors!
>

Regardless of the sig block, this isn't a paid endorsement. My copy of VC
1.6 works just fine with VC over BT. I use it with my K-Jam (an HTC device),
and have used it with an SP5 (another HTC gizmo). Primarily my use is with
a Cardo Scala Rider BT headset (mono) while on a motorcycle. The phone stays
in the saddle bag. My routine is to turn on the headset unit and then ask
for the time or battery life to verify operation. I have made calls by
pressing the button on the headset, waiting for the VC beep and stating the
name. After responding to the home, work, mobile question, the call is made.
I can answer calls on the Scala, which are announced by Contact name, by
saying 'answer', or pushing the button. (The answer via voice is a Scala
function, not a VC one). Hang up is automatic whether initiating or
answering.

I will comment that the Scala is not a cheap headset, with very good sound
and apparently great pickup and fidelity. My wife says I sound clearer on
the Scala on a bike going 50, than I do on the installed car handsfree in my
Jeep. So there may be some headset quality involved. Initially VC didn't
support BT because the fidelity of BT voice wasn't sufficient to ensure
voice recognition. I don't think BT got better, I think MS voice recognition
got better enough that they were willing to offer support. Doesn't mean
every headset provides sufficient fidelity.

I can of course not listen to music on the headset. I can request it, but
once the system initiates the media player it would expect to broadcast that
sound over a Stereo A2DP profile, which neither the K-Jam or the Scala
support. It just comes out of the K-Jam speakers. Not very satisfying when
the phone is in the saddle bags. ;) I have actually turned some of those
options off in VC support as each feature takes memory and processor effort.

I can't dispute that you can likely find lots of folks with issues on the
net, but for me it works as advertised and acceptably, within it's
constraints. Note that the units I use them on are official ROMs with the MS
BT stack.

--
Sven
MS MVP Mobile Devices
"Joe V" <JoeV@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:ECEE3F61-0D5C-4C51-91B2-F9EEFD1D4466@microsoft.com...
>
> This is more of a rant then a question in regards to Voice Command 1.6 not
> functioning properly with mono bluetooth headset on my HTC Trinity and for
> the most part pretty much all new generation WM5/6 devices. Search Voice
> Command 1.6 in google and you'll find hundreds of posts from people upset
> at
> the fact that Voice Commands Bluetooth functionality doesn't work.
>
> Now yes I know some devices just aren't capable and I've also read that
> the
> problem with HTC devices is their implementaton of Bluetooth on newer
> devices
> isn't according to spec. As seems to be the case with other manufactures
> too!
> Will you think that two companies that are partnered so closely together
> when
> it comes to developing/promoting Windows Mobile devices would have seen
> this
> before the release of Voice Command 1.6 or at least came up with some kind
> of
> solution by now. HTC doesn't seem to care about fixing it, Microsoft is
> very
> quiet about it, even their website is inaccurate as to Voice Command
> outputting sound on WM5 revisions prior to a certain version.
>
> I'm sure it may not be an easy fix or maybe it is but in either case it's
> a
> real shame because Voice Command is an amazing application. It's one of
> those
> killer apps that once you start using it you can't live without it. I was
> using it on my old HTC Wizard without any problems and it was awesome,
> being
> able to dial without having to pre-record voice tags, hearing incoming
> callers, emails, appointments ect without having to look at your phone.
> Most
> devices can't touch this ease of use, not even the hyped up IPhone and
> you'd
> think Microsoft would realize this enough to get some kind of fix out.
>
> I saw an interview with someone at Microsoft showing how they were opening
> up Voice Command API so other applications could incorporate the voice
> recognition into their devices, this was awesome and I look forward to it.
> Of
> course this is still in the early stage. At least there is some
> development
> going on with Voice Command but how about releasing a working Voice
> Command
> patch for mono bluetooth headsets instead making us wait for a whole new
> version which will require a new device!
>
> Anyway I hope eventually Micrisoft or HTC or both will come up with some
> kind of solution as well other vendors!
>

Hi Sven,

I'm happy you're able to use Voice Command 1.6 bluetooth functionality. It
worked on my old K-Jam as well. The problem is with pretty much all the new
devices out there. It's really upsetting because I know it could work as the
included Voice Dialer which uses Voice Tags does work with a mono bluetooth
headset.

As for your passing audio to your headset for media player ect. I used to
use a handy little program called BTAudio on my old K-Jam. Do a search in
google for BTAudio and you'll find it. You can run it to toggle all audio to
the bluetooth headset when you want to listen to sound through the headset.

As for me and all the other users out there who have newer devices like the
HTC Trinity/TyTn ect. I hope Microsoft is listening and is working on some
kind of solution either themselves or with their partners.



"Sven" wrote:

> Regardless of the sig block, this isn't a paid endorsement. My copy of VC
> 1.6 works just fine with VC over BT. I use it with my K-Jam (an HTC device),
> and have used it with an SP5 (another HTC gizmo). Primarily my use is with
> a Cardo Scala Rider BT headset (mono) while on a motorcycle. The phone stays
> in the saddle bag. My routine is to turn on the headset unit and then ask
> for the time or battery life to verify operation. I have made calls by
> pressing the button on the headset, waiting for the VC beep and stating the
> name. After responding to the home, work, mobile question, the call is made.
> I can answer calls on the Scala, which are announced by Contact name, by
> saying 'answer', or pushing the button. (The answer via voice is a Scala
> function, not a VC one). Hang up is automatic whether initiating or
> answering.
>
> I will comment that the Scala is not a cheap headset, with very good sound
> and apparently great pickup and fidelity. My wife says I sound clearer on
> the Scala on a bike going 50, than I do on the installed car handsfree in my
> Jeep. So there may be some headset quality involved. Initially VC didn't
> support BT because the fidelity of BT voice wasn't sufficient to ensure
> voice recognition. I don't think BT got better, I think MS voice recognition
> got better enough that they were willing to offer support. Doesn't mean
> every headset provides sufficient fidelity.
>
> I can of course not listen to music on the headset. I can request it, but
> once the system initiates the media player it would expect to broadcast that
> sound over a Stereo A2DP profile, which neither the K-Jam or the Scala
> support. It just comes out of the K-Jam speakers. Not very satisfying when
> the phone is in the saddle bags. ;) I have actually turned some of those
> options off in VC support as each feature takes memory and processor effort.
>
> I can't dispute that you can likely find lots of folks with issues on the
> net, but for me it works as advertised and acceptably, within it's
> constraints. Note that the units I use them on are official ROMs with the MS
> BT stack.
>
> --
> Sven
> MS MVP Mobile Devices
> "Joe V" <JoeV@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:ECEE3F61-0D5C-4C51-91B2-F9EEFD1D4466@microsoft.com...
> >
> > This is more of a rant then a question in regards to Voice Command 1.6 not
> > functioning properly with mono bluetooth headset on my HTC Trinity and for
> > the most part pretty much all new generation WM5/6 devices. Search Voice
> > Command 1.6 in google and you'll find hundreds of posts from people upset
> > at
> > the fact that Voice Commands Bluetooth functionality doesn't work.
> >
> > Now yes I know some devices just aren't capable and I've also read that
> > the
> > problem with HTC devices is their implementaton of Bluetooth on newer
> > devices
> > isn't according to spec. As seems to be the case with other manufactures
> > too!
> > Will you think that two companies that are partnered so closely together
> > when
> > it comes to developing/promoting Windows Mobile devices would have seen
> > this
> > before the release of Voice Command 1.6 or at least came up with some kind
> > of
> > solution by now. HTC doesn't seem to care about fixing it, Microsoft is
> > very
> > quiet about it, even their website is inaccurate as to Voice Command
> > outputting sound on WM5 revisions prior to a certain version.
> >
> > I'm sure it may not be an easy fix or maybe it is but in either case it's
> > a
> > real shame because Voice Command is an amazing application. It's one of
> > those
> > killer apps that once you start using it you can't live without it. I was
> > using it on my old HTC Wizard without any problems and it was awesome,
> > being
> > able to dial without having to pre-record voice tags, hearing incoming
> > callers, emails, appointments ect without having to look at your phone.
> > Most
> > devices can't touch this ease of use, not even the hyped up IPhone and
> > you'd
> > think Microsoft would realize this enough to get some kind of fix out.
> >
> > I saw an interview with someone at Microsoft showing how they were opening
> > up Voice Command API so other applications could incorporate the voice
> > recognition into their devices, this was awesome and I look forward to it.
> > Of
> > course this is still in the early stage. At least there is some
> > development
> > going on with Voice Command but how about releasing a working Voice
> > Command
> > patch for mono bluetooth headsets instead making us wait for a whole new
> > version which will require a new device!
> >
> > Anyway I hope eventually Micrisoft or HTC or both will come up with some
> > kind of solution as well other vendors!
> >
>

Yea, I know about BTAudio, but have had some issues with it, and other
similar 'hacks'. The reality is that the phone and BT headset need to work
over the headset/handsfree profile and the music should really work over an
A2DP profile. VC is a headset/handsfree implementation. If you use it to
start music, the unit should cut off the HS/HF and start up the A2DP. If you
then get a call, the functionality should be to pause the music via the A2DP
and control portion thereof, and use the HS/HF to process the call, answer,
route audio, hangup, and then switch back to the A2DP and start the music
again. I have stereo headsets (like Motorola's) that support both HS/HF and
A2DP, and they work as expected, if the device supports both protocols.
Neither the K-Jam nor the Scala do. Things like BTAudio need to trick the
system into thinking it is in a call to route audio from something other
than the phone subsystem (like media player) into sending that audio over
the mono phone based HS/HF profile so you can hear it on a 'mono' headset'.
I've found that often interferes with the normal phone function. While the
phone understands a call coming in, the audio system believes it is already
in a call, and gets confused. Just my experience. If it works OK for others,
great.

Voice tags are significantly different than what VC does. Voice tags compare
a digitized audio command to a previously recorded digitized audio command.
This is a much simpler problem to solve than what amounts to recognizing
speech and comparing it to words. If it is poorly digitized and transferred
when you create the tag, it just needs to compare that poorly digitized and
transferred file to the earlier poorly digitized and transferred file. It's
kind of like having two blurry pictures. You can tell if they are the same,
even if you can't tell what they are. There are two levels of difficulty in
what VC does. There is the recognition of distinct commands, and there is
the recognition of random names, both from the contact list, and from media
files. Commands are significantly easier, as you can compare what was said
to a finite list. Recognizing names is a real challenge, and is compounded
if the digitization and BT transfer is poor.

I haven't had much experience with VC and the newer devices running WM6 and
the newer BT stacks, MS or others. I would guess though that the VC team is
working on the issues. 1.6 came out some time ago, well before WM6, and I am
not surprised that there are issues, based on a few years of dealing with
the various distinct and compartmentalized activities within MS.
--
Sven
MS MVP Mobile Devices
"Joe V" <JoeV@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:9642B981-1A68-463C-AA7A-315E2CB09B85@microsoft.com...
>
> Hi Sven,
>
> I'm happy you're able to use Voice Command 1.6 bluetooth functionality. It
> worked on my old K-Jam as well. The problem is with pretty much all the
> new
> devices out there. It's really upsetting because I know it could work as
> the
> included Voice Dialer which uses Voice Tags does work with a mono
> bluetooth
> headset.
>
> As for your passing audio to your headset for media player ect. I used to
> use a handy little program called BTAudio on my old K-Jam. Do a search in
> google for BTAudio and you'll find it. You can run it to toggle all audio
> to
> the bluetooth headset when you want to listen to sound through the
> headset.
>
> As for me and all the other users out there who have newer devices like
> the
> HTC Trinity/TyTn ect. I hope Microsoft is listening and is working on some
> kind of solution either themselves or with their partners.
>
>
>
> "Sven" wrote:
>
>> Regardless of the sig block, this isn't a paid endorsement. My copy of VC
>> 1.6 works just fine with VC over BT. I use it with my K-Jam (an HTC
>> device),
>> and have used it with an SP5 (another HTC gizmo). Primarily my use is
>> with
>> a Cardo Scala Rider BT headset (mono) while on a motorcycle. The phone
>> stays
>> in the saddle bag. My routine is to turn on the headset unit and then ask
>> for the time or battery life to verify operation. I have made calls by
>> pressing the button on the headset, waiting for the VC beep and stating
>> the
>> name. After responding to the home, work, mobile question, the call is
>> made.
>> I can answer calls on the Scala, which are announced by Contact name, by
>> saying 'answer', or pushing the button. (The answer via voice is a Scala
>> function, not a VC one). Hang up is automatic whether initiating or
>> answering.
>>
>> I will comment that the Scala is not a cheap headset, with very good
>> sound
>> and apparently great pickup and fidelity. My wife says I sound clearer on
>> the Scala on a bike going 50, than I do on the installed car handsfree in
>> my
>> Jeep. So there may be some headset quality involved. Initially VC
>> didn't
>> support BT because the fidelity of BT voice wasn't sufficient to ensure
>> voice recognition. I don't think BT got better, I think MS voice
>> recognition
>> got better enough that they were willing to offer support. Doesn't mean
>> every headset provides sufficient fidelity.
>>
>> I can of course not listen to music on the headset. I can request it, but
>> once the system initiates the media player it would expect to broadcast
>> that
>> sound over a Stereo A2DP profile, which neither the K-Jam or the Scala
>> support. It just comes out of the K-Jam speakers. Not very satisfying
>> when
>> the phone is in the saddle bags. ;) I have actually turned some of those
>> options off in VC support as each feature takes memory and processor
>> effort.
>>
>> I can't dispute that you can likely find lots of folks with issues on the
>> net, but for me it works as advertised and acceptably, within it's
>> constraints. Note that the units I use them on are official ROMs with the
>> MS
>> BT stack.
>>
>> --
>> Sven
>> MS MVP Mobile Devices
>> "Joe V" <JoeV@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:ECEE3F61-0D5C-4C51-91B2-F9EEFD1D4466@microsoft.com...
>> >
>> > This is more of a rant then a question in regards to Voice Command 1.6
>> > not
>> > functioning properly with mono bluetooth headset on my HTC Trinity and
>> > for
>> > the most part pretty much all new generation WM5/6 devices. Search
>> > Voice
>> > Command 1.6 in google and you'll find hundreds of posts from people
>> > upset
>> > at
>> > the fact that Voice Commands Bluetooth functionality doesn't work.
>> >
>> > Now yes I know some devices just aren't capable and I've also read that
>> > the
>> > problem with HTC devices is their implementaton of Bluetooth on newer
>> > devices
>> > isn't according to spec. As seems to be the case with other
>> > manufactures
>> > too!
>> > Will you think that two companies that are partnered so closely
>> > together
>> > when
>> > it comes to developing/promoting Windows Mobile devices would have seen
>> > this
>> > before the release of Voice Command 1.6 or at least came up with some
>> > kind
>> > of
>> > solution by now. HTC doesn't seem to care about fixing it, Microsoft is
>> > very
>> > quiet about it, even their website is inaccurate as to Voice Command
>> > outputting sound on WM5 revisions prior to a certain version.
>> >
>> > I'm sure it may not be an easy fix or maybe it is but in either case
>> > it's
>> > a
>> > real shame because Voice Command is an amazing application. It's one of
>> > those
>> > killer apps that once you start using it you can't live without it. I
>> > was
>> > using it on my old HTC Wizard without any problems and it was awesome,
>> > being
>> > able to dial without having to pre-record voice tags, hearing incoming
>> > callers, emails, appointments ect without having to look at your phone.
>> > Most
>> > devices can't touch this ease of use, not even the hyped up IPhone and
>> > you'd
>> > think Microsoft would realize this enough to get some kind of fix out.
>> >
>> > I saw an interview with someone at Microsoft showing how they were
>> > opening
>> > up Voice Command API so other applications could incorporate the voice
>> > recognition into their devices, this was awesome and I look forward to
>> > it.
>> > Of
>> > course this is still in the early stage. At least there is some
>> > development
>> > going on with Voice Command but how about releasing a working Voice
>> > Command
>> > patch for mono bluetooth headsets instead making us wait for a whole
>> > new
>> > version which will require a new device!
>> >
>> > Anyway I hope eventually Micrisoft or HTC or both will come up with
>> > some
>> > kind of solution as well other vendors!
>> >
>>

The previous HTC Sprint 6700 and Moto 320 was a match made in heaven. All
features of VC 1.6 worked as advertised. The current problems that are
confirmed on numerous Moguls anf BT devices are;

You must disable the confirmation on dialing commands in order to get the
unit to work. The results in some misdials and teh cancellation requires the
press of a button and the unit on your hip at 70mph down the highway is
dangerous.
Drive First PDA second... But with a functional VC1.6 the safety quotient
goes up.

The previous HTC Sprint 6700 and Moto 320 was a match made in heaven. All
features of VC 1.6 worked as advertised. The current problems that are
confirmed on numerous Moguls anf BT devices are;

You must disable the confirmation on dialing commands in order to get the
unit to work. The results in some misdials and teh cancellation requires the
press of a button and the unit on your hip at 70mph down the highway is
dangerous.
Drive First PDA second... But with a functional VC1.6 the safety quotient
goes up.

The previous HTC Sprint 6700 and Moto 320 was a match made in heaven. All
features of VC 1.6 worked as advertised. The current problems that are
confirmed on numerous Moguls anf BT devices are;

You must disable the confirmation on dialing commands in order to get the
unit to work. The results in some misdials and teh cancellation requires the
press of a button and the unit on your hip at 70mph down the highway is
dangerous.
Drive First PDA second... But with a functional VC1.6 the safety quotient
goes up.

The previous HTC Sprint 6700 and Moto 320 was a match made in heaven. All
features of VC 1.6 worked as advertised. The current problems that are
confirmed on numerous Moguls anf BT devices are;

You must disable the confirmation on dialing commands in order to get the
unit to work. The results in some misdials and teh cancellation requires the
press of a button and the unit on your hip at 70mph down the highway is
dangerous.
Drive First PDA second... But with a functional VC1.6 the safety quotient
goes up.

The previous HTC Sprint 6700 and Moto 320 was a match made in heaven. All
features of VC 1.6 worked as advertised. The current problems that are
confirmed on numerous Moguls anf BT devices are;

You must disable the confirmation on dialing commands in order to get the
unit to work. The results in some misdials and teh cancellation requires the
press of a button and the unit on your hip at 70mph down the highway is
dangerous.
Drive First PDA second... But with a functional VC1.6 the safety quotient
goes up.