This "mass poster just out of High School" is in his 60's, got his ham
radio license in 1963, was operating 50,000 watt broadcast radio and TV
stations by himself with a 1st class FCC license in 1965, has a BSEE, US
Patents and copyrights, over 30 years of experience in the computer
industry with a number of PC and laptop manufacturers, is A+ and
Network+ and Microsoft certified.

And thinks you are full of it.


Larry wrote:

>
> Yes, be very careful that 50 years of electronic experience, including
> everything to do with battery powered equipment from Nickel-Iron "Edison"
> cells to Lithium-Polymer battery maintenance may rub off on you.....
>
> Ignore him completely and listen to the mass posters just out of high
> school.
>
>

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
news:hcngj2$i5f$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> In news:Xns9CB79B5361559noonehomecom@74.209.131.13,
> Larry typed on Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:16:07 +0000:
>> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in
>> news:4aeeaa11$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net:
>>
>>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:hci8hu$506$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> And, as I have said before, there was a thread on this subject on
>>>> this board a number of years ago, it went on for 6 months, thousands
>>>> of posts from hundreds of contributors. It was overwhelming,
>>>> essentially everyone had Bill's experience (and Bill and I don't
>>>> agree on much !!): Leave a battery in laptop that is always plugged
>>>> in, and it destroys the battery over 6 to 24 months. There may be
>>>> some exceptions, but that is the general rule. You can argue all
>>>> you want that it shouldn't be that way, and theoretically, you
>>>> might even be right. But the overwhelming evidence of laptop users
>>>> is .... that this is the way that it is. And reality beats theory
>>>> every time.
>>>
>>> Larry's track record on battery related postings is pretty abysmal.
>>> Best to ignore him.
>>
>> Yes, be very careful that 50 years of electronic experience, including
>> everything to do with battery powered equipment from Nickel-Iron
>> "Edison" cells to Lithium-Polymer battery maintenance may rub off on
>> you.....
>>
>> Ignore him completely and listen to the mass posters just out of high
>> school. -- Larry
>
> Maybe this URL may help. It seems accurate as far as I can tell.
>
> http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm
>
> Which says that lithium batteries will last longer if they are operated
> between 15°C (59°F) to 50°C (122°F). And by 70ºC (158°F) the threat is
> really from thermal runaway. Poof!
>

50°C???!!!?? That will kill a Lithiom ion in no time at all.

"Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CB79B5361559noonehomecom@74.209.131.13...
> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in
> news:4aeeaa11$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net:
>
>>
>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:hci8hu$506$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> And, as I have said before, there was a thread on this subject on
>>> this board a number of years ago, it went on for 6 months, thousands
>>> of posts from hundreds of contributors. It was overwhelming,
>>> essentially everyone had Bill's experience (and Bill and I don't
>>> agree on much !!): Leave a battery in laptop that is always plugged
>>> in, and it destroys the battery over 6 to 24 months. There may be
>>> some exceptions, but that is the general rule. You can argue all you
>>> want that it shouldn't be that way, and theoretically, you might even
>>> be right. But the overwhelming evidence of laptop users is .... that
>>> this is the way that it is. And reality beats theory every time.
>>>
>>
>> Larry's track record on battery related postings is pretty abysmal.
>> Best to ignore him.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Yes, be very careful that 50 years of electronic experience, including
> everything to do with battery powered equipment from Nickel-Iron "Edison"
> cells to Lithium-Polymer battery maintenance may rub off on you.....
>
> Ignore him completely and listen to the mass posters just out of high
> school.
>

Your posts regularly demonstrate that in 50 years you have learnt nothing at
all about the technology.

>
> Okay. Which battery program are you using? The windows one, or another
> one? And I would be curious to know what something like BattStat v0.98
> tells you.
>
> http://users.rcn.com/tmtalpey/BattStat/
>

I used XP and Linux and the onboard battery meter behaviour is
consistent.

>
> It is best to leave it out whenever you are not using it on battery
> power or charging it. Although you have had 3 years out of it and that
> is doing well if it was left in. As this suggests the battery doesn't
> get too warm too deteriorate very much. Do you believe this is true?
>
> --
> Bill
> Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
> Windows XP SP2

Never touched the battery to test it's temps. But, definitely the
ambient temp would never have exceeded 30 deg C.

Thanks for all the help, to all.

I must say, I had half expected someone to say that freezing the
battery would help - as would "boosting". These seem to be the common
tips on youtube! Freezing is something that I intend to do soon. Don't
see the harm in it. I'll inform if this causes any change in battery
meter accuracy.

In
news:f1399b05-969b-4029-b99b-29e16f834026@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com,
htnakirs typed on Tue, 3 Nov 2009 06:30:11 -0800 (PST):
> Never touched the battery to test it's temps. But, definitely the
> ambient temp would never have exceeded 30 deg C.
>
> Thanks for all the help, to all.
>
> I must say, I had half expected someone to say that freezing the
> battery would help - as would "boosting". These seem to be the common
> tips on youtube! Freezing is something that I intend to do soon. Don't
> see the harm in it. I'll inform if this causes any change in battery
> meter accuracy.

Well the lithium is warmer than ambient when charging. Also charging
while the computer is in use increases it even higher. So it helps to
only charge when the machine is powered down.

Freezer? I never have seen any research to show this helps at all. Also
some claim that freezing actually hurts them. I haven't personally
tested this, so I don't have much experience with freezing lithiums.
Those old zinc batteries were helped by freezing, but I know of no other
battery type that freezing actually helps.

Refrigerator? This is debated a lot. I have kept non-chargeable lithiums
in the frig and it seems to help in my experience. As they are lasting
10+ years this way. Although the shelf life is also 10 years. So it is
hard to say if it is really helping. Although it doesn't seem to hurt.

I don't store rechargeable lithiums in the frig, but in a drawer. And
they generally last 10 years or more this way. So in the frig is
probably ok if you want to do this. In the freezer, well that might not
be such a great idea.

--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2

In news:4aefeba0$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net,
M.I.5¾ typed on Tue, 3 Nov 2009 08:37:22 -0000:
> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
> news:hcngj2$i5f$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Maybe this URL may help. It seems accurate as far as I can tell.
>>
>> http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm
>>
>> Which says that lithium batteries will last longer if they are
>> operated between 15°C (59°F) to 50°C (122°F). And by 70ºC (158°F)
>> the threat is really from thermal runaway. Poof!
>
> 50°C???!!!?? That will kill a Lithiom ion in no time at all.

It seems too high to me too. But I don't have any hard evidence that
they are incorrect. I am currently testing one battery sitting at 95°F
(35°C) and floated at 4.2v per cell. IMHO 4.2v is too high (but 4.10v is
fine), but you say it is okay. And I am not sure about 95°F, but I am
hoping this isn't warm enough to do any real harm.

--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
news:hcptll$f7j$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> In news:4aefeba0$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net,
> M.I.5¾ typed on Tue, 3 Nov 2009 08:37:22 -0000:
>> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
>> news:hcngj2$i5f$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Maybe this URL may help. It seems accurate as far as I can tell.
>>>
>>> http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm
>>>
>>> Which says that lithium batteries will last longer if they are
>>> operated between 15°C (59°F) to 50°C (122°F). And by 70ºC (158°F)
>>> the threat is really from thermal runaway. Poof!
>>
>> 50°C???!!!?? That will kill a Lithiom ion in no time at all.
>
> It seems too high to me too. But I don't have any hard evidence that they
> are incorrect. I am currently testing one battery sitting at 95°F (35°C)
> and floated at 4.2v per cell. IMHO 4.2v is too high (but 4.10v is fine),
> but you say it is okay. And I am not sure about 95°F, but I am hoping this
> isn't warm enough to do any real harm.
>

Laptops don't heat batteries by anywhere near this much and they kill them
inside a year.

In news:4af1594c$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net,
M.I.5¾ typed on Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:37:37 -0000:
> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
> news:hcptll$f7j$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> In news:4aefeba0$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net,
>> M.I.5¾ typed on Tue, 3 Nov 2009 08:37:22 -0000:
>>> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
>>> news:hcngj2$i5f$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> Maybe this URL may help. It seems accurate as far as I can tell.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm
>>>>
>>>> Which says that lithium batteries will last longer if they are
>>>> operated between 15°C (59°F) to 50°C (122°F). And by 70ºC (158°F)
>>>> the threat is really from thermal runaway. Poof!
>>>
>>> 50°C???!!!?? That will kill a Lithiom ion in no time at all.
>>
>> It seems too high to me too. But I don't have any hard evidence that
>> they are incorrect. I am currently testing one battery sitting at
>> 95°F (35°C) and floated at 4.2v per cell. IMHO 4.2v is too high (but
>> 4.10v is fine), but you say it is okay. And I am not sure about
>> 95°F, but I am hoping this isn't warm enough to do any real harm.
>
> Laptops don't heat batteries by anywhere near this much and they kill
> them inside a year.

Are you sure? As plastic feels so much cooler than say metal. My Asus
EeePC netbooks gets 110°F top and bottom. Although the battery is much
cooler. AJL calls his hot, while I call this lukewarm. And this is much
cooler than my laptops. My Toshiba 2595XDVD ('99 era) laptops for
example, are really hot. I should check them with my IR temperature gun.
They have to be in 130°F range on the bottom at least. And the batteries
has to be very close to this.

--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

>My Asus EeePC netbooks gets 110°F top and bottom. Although the battery is much
>cooler. AJL calls his hot, while I call this lukewarm.

I didn't call your Eee PC netbook hot, I called my Eee PC netbook hot,
specifically my 2G Surf model (7" screen, 520M memory, 2G SSD). To the
touch it runs very hot. Course at only 2 pounds I usually hold it like
a newspaper to read it so perhaps it gets touched more. It has never
had a problem during operation so I'm guessing that it is just the
nature of the beast. While your netbooks look like this model there
are several differences and heat is apparently one of them.

Contrary to what you would think my more powerful netbook the Eee PC
1000HD (10" screen, 1G memory, 160G HDD) runs much cooler than the
little Surf and gets almost twice the battery time (same capacity
battery). So in later designs (and more expensive models) the design
has improved...

In news:h8t3f5p7ar61k99nrla7l5dbulj06k3pou@4ax.com,
AJL typed on Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:34:22 -0700:
> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>> My Asus EeePC netbooks gets 110°F top and bottom. Although the
>> battery is much cooler. AJL calls his hot, while I call this
>> lukewarm.
>
> I didn't call your Eee PC netbook hot, I called my Eee PC netbook hot,
> specifically my 2G Surf model (7" screen, 520M memory, 2G SSD). To the
> touch it runs very hot. Course at only 2 pounds I usually hold it like
> a newspaper to read it so perhaps it gets touched more. It has never
> had a problem during operation so I'm guessing that it is just the
> nature of the beast. While your netbooks look like this model there
> are several differences and heat is apparently one of them.
>
> Contrary to what you would think my more powerful netbook the Eee PC
> 1000HD (10" screen, 1G memory, 160G HDD) runs much cooler than the
> little Surf and gets almost twice the battery time (same capacity
> battery). So in later designs (and more expensive models) the design
> has improved...

It is ashamed you don't have anything to measure the temperature with.
As I really believe we have different opinions on what we call hot. Most
of the keyboard and the bottom of mine runs about 102°F. Although by the
right ALT key gets 110°F and one spot on the bottom also gets 110°F
(where the WiFi card sits). It is 75°F in this room and if left in
standby, runs about 85°F top and bottom. While the battery capacity
rating between your two, the 1000HD has a higher rated battery voltage,
right?

--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2 (quit Windows updates back in May 2009)

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

>My Asus EeePC netbooks gets 110°F top and bottom.

I just noticed this *Cool* article... ;)

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/11...us_thermal_pc/

In news:9934f5d70ad51k9v2cerj7a6lc5i1h4g1t@4ax.com,
AJL typed on Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:26:06 -0700:
> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>> My Asus EeePC netbooks gets 110°F top and bottom.
>
> I just noticed this *Cool* article... ;)
>
> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/11...us_thermal_pc/

Oh I like that! ;-)

--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2 (quit Windows updates back in May 2009)

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

>It is ashamed you don't have anything to measure the temperature with.

Yes, I wish I had a way to accurately measure the surface temperature
so we could compare. I probably need one of those surface
thermometers. Maybe I could sneak the Surf into Home Depot and use the
demo??

>As I really believe we have different opinions on what we call hot.

That could very well be. Here in Phoenix we often are over 110 degrees
in the summer and yes I do call that hot... ;)

>While the battery capacity rating between your two, the 1000HD
>has a higher rated battery voltage, right?

Both batteries are 7.4V (4400 mAh). In fact their outside dimensions,
including the curves, are identical. Course Asus put a different
connector in each so I can't interchange them...

Re: "I wish I had a way to accurately measure the surface temperature"

What would you do if you thought you had the flu? My guess is that you
do have a temperature measuring device.


AJL wrote:
> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>> It is ashamed you don't have anything to measure the temperature with.
>
> Yes, I wish I had a way to accurately measure the surface temperature
> so we could compare. I probably need one of those surface
> thermometers. Maybe I could sneak the Surf into Home Depot and use the
> demo??
>
>> As I really believe we have different opinions on what we call hot.
>
> That could very well be. Here in Phoenix we often are over 110 degrees
> in the summer and yes I do call that hot... ;)
>
>> While the battery capacity rating between your two, the 1000HD
>> has a higher rated battery voltage, right?
>
> Both batteries are 7.4V (4400 mAh). In fact their outside dimensions,
> including the curves, are identical. Course Asus put a different
> connector in each so I can't interchange them...

AJL wrote on Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:52:53 -0700:
> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>> It is ashamed you don't have anything to measure the temperature with.
>
> Yes, I wish I had a way to accurately measure the surface temperature
> so we could compare. I probably need one of those surface
> thermometers. Maybe I could sneak the Surf into Home Depot and use the
> demo??
>
>> As I really believe we have different opinions on what we call hot.
>
> That could very well be. Here in Phoenix we often are over 110 degrees
> in the summer and yes I do call that hot... ;)
>
>> While the battery capacity rating between your two, the 1000HD
>> has a higher rated battery voltage, right?
>
> Both batteries are 7.4V (4400 mAh). In fact their outside dimensions,
> including the curves, are identical. Course Asus put a different
> connector in each so I can't interchange them...

I have been checking the temperatures of both Asus and my Toshiba
2595XDVD laptops. Those Toshiba laptops I always thought of being hot.
Although they only read 110F at a few spots. Only when the fan kicks on
high, I can read 130F coming out of the fan. The Asus netbooks, the
highest I read is 110F. And not much difference if I am running Linux or
Windows XP. So maybe the Asus 700/701/702 *does* run hot. ;-)

--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 702G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Xandros Linux (build 2007-10-19 13:03)