As I use my laptop sitting in my recliner most of the time, I'm
wondering about whether I should leave it plugged in or allow the
battery to run down and then recharge it. It's also occurred to me that
the stores have display models turned on most of the time and they just
leave the batteries out. Noting this, I'm wondering if this is the best
option and then I could just put the battery in if I were leaving the
condo and taking the laptop with me?

Is there a definitive answer or opinion?

Tim Mathews wrote on Sun, 25 Oct 2009 10:23:38 -0300:
> As I use my laptop sitting in my recliner most of the time, I'm
> wondering about whether I should leave it plugged in or allow the
> battery to run down and then recharge it. It's also occurred to me that
> the stores have display models turned on most of the time and they just
> leave the batteries out. Noting this, I'm wondering if this is the best
> option and then I could just put the battery in if I were leaving the
> condo and taking the laptop with me?
>
> Is there a definitive answer or opinion?

Yes, when using AC it is best in virtually all cases to take the battery
out. As the battery will last much longer, if you care.

The downside is if the power goes out (or somebody unplugs it) the
laptop loses power. Although the fix for this is getting an UPS
(uninterruptible power supply).

--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 702G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Xandros Linux (build 2007-10-19 13:03)

Tim Mathews <NOSPAMtsmohio******.com> wrote:

>As I use my laptop sitting in my recliner most of the time, I'm
>wondering about whether I should leave it plugged in...

Sitting in a recliner. Yep, great way to use a laptop. I love my big
recliner. I always leave my laptop plugged in so that if nature calls
or if I want to head to the porch for awhile, I will have a full
battery. Also it would be a royal pain to have to hunt up the battery
and hope I had remembered to charge it every time I wanted to go
mobile...

> or allow the battery to run down and then recharge it.

Unlike older batteries Li-ion batteries don't have to be run down to
avoid a memory. In fact most articles I've read say they prefer to be
recharged often after a light discharge. However they say that the
electronics associated with the battery needs to be calibrated
occasionally by a complete rundown.

>It's also occurred to me that the stores have display models
> turned on most of the time and they just leave the batteries out.

The stores leave the batteries taken out of the laptops so that they
don't grow legs and walk away is my guess.

>Noting this, I'm wondering if this is the best option and then
>I could just put the battery in if I were leaving the
>condo and taking the laptop with me?

Leaving the battery out and only installing it when needed would
probably make it last longer. But is it really worth the effort? In my
case I've never needed a new battery before I needed (wanted?) a new
laptop after a few years.

>Is there a definitive answer or opinion?

Yes, it is definitive that you will get several different answers
here... ;)

You should take the battery out and run from AC only. The battery does
need some activity every couple of months, but leaving it in constantly
while plugged in will likely damage it, and it has a limited number of
charge-discharge cycles.


Tim Mathews wrote:
> As I use my laptop sitting in my recliner most of the time, I'm
> wondering about whether I should leave it plugged in or allow the
> battery to run down and then recharge it. It's also occurred to me that
> the stores have display models turned on most of the time and they just
> leave the batteries out. Noting this, I'm wondering if this is the best
> option and then I could just put the battery in if I were leaving the
> condo and taking the laptop with me?
>
> Is there a definitive answer or opinion?

Tim Mathews <NOSPAMtsmohio******.com> wrote in news:4ae4515c$0$23785
$9a566e8b@news.aliant.net:

> As I use my laptop sitting in my recliner most of the time, I'm
> wondering about whether I should leave it plugged in or allow the
> battery to run down and then recharge it. It's also occurred to me
that
> the stores have display models turned on most of the time and they
just
> leave the batteries out. Noting this, I'm wondering if this is the
best
> option and then I could just put the battery in if I were leaving the
> condo and taking the laptop with me?
>
> Is there a definitive answer or opinion?
>

One of laptop's greatest features is the BUILT IN uninterruptable power
supplies that prevent a power glitch or dropout from trashing your disk
write and hosing your system......that is, until someone removes the
battery pack from some nonsense they read on the net. NEVER operate the
laptop without an even poorly charging battery pack in it. The light
blink with a halfassed battery in it....you go right on as if nothing
happened. Without the battery, you can hose the hard drive like a
desktop box plugged straight into the wall....not good!

Lithium Ion or Lithium Polymer batteries, unlike the old NiCd memory
batteries that make everybody worried sick over their battery packs
STILL, are FLOAT BATTERIES, like your car battery. You don't disconnect
your car battery because you're driving to Texas, so you shouldn't
disconnect your laptop because you're watching a movie.

What kills float batteries, including these, is USEAGE, especially DEEP
CYCLING! As a matter of fact, there is a special battery monitoring IC
built right into the battery pack to PREVENT you from discharging the
cells below 50%! The pack has twice as much capacity as the rating
stamped on the outside of it. The only trouble is if you ever
completely discharge a Li-Ion pack....you destroy it for good. If you
only discharge it 10%, then religiously plug it in as soon as you get
near the charger, you will extend its battery life by a LOT!

Case in point: There's an old Gateway laptop XP box laying on a sheet
of plexiglass to keep my bedclothes from blocking the air cooling that
hasn't been unplugged in many years! I use it for watching movies or
internet TV from my LAN in bed. The only time the charge light comes on
is when the power fails. The IC is very well designed to float that
battery pack and monitor its charge continuously when connected to
power. When the power fails, even with the computer off, the IC
dutifully recycles and goes into rapid charge, which, because the pack
was in float mode continuously, causes the pack voltage to rise rapidly
and the IC goes back into float mode in about a minute or less. That
battery is 1997. It will STILL run the old Gateway about an hour or so
guzzling its battery pack as always and blowing it out the side like a
hair dryer....even after all these years. A couple times a year, I
cycle the battery pack when I think of it, running it until the IC
forces a shutdown, then immediately recharging back to its normal float
mode. This is necessary to RESET the IC's memory of battery condition
because Li-Ion batteries have internal leakage so the real charge is
always less than what the IC thinks it is...especially if you leave it
UNPLUGGED AND STORED most of the time.

So, what to do? Leave it plugged in all the time. It cannot overcharge
unless something is wrong with the charging circuit, which is very
unlikely. If that happens, the pack gets hot, very hot and stays hot!
Every 4 to 6 months, whenever you happen to think about it no panic,
boot the computer with it unplugged and put on a movie with the display
brightness up full for maximum load, hard drive buzzing away to kill the
battery pack the fastest. Watch a big video from Google Video over
wifi. That'll kill it hard and fast. As soon as the computer shuts it
self down on dead battery, just plug the charger back in to fully
recharge and leave it plugged in as much as possible. Take a nap,
always a good idea, anyways. The IC will make sure the battery is in
top condition if you leave it some power supply to work with. That's
what we designed it to do.

The worst thing any fool can do is brag about how long his sellphone
will run on a charge, running it dead every time and cycling it into
deep-as-it-can. Plug all your li-ion devices into their chargers at
every opportunity. My sellphone battery is 5 years old and works great,
too! Don't point out to him he's trashing his battery. They get so
upset if you point to their little penises.....(c;]


--
Larry

BillW50 <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in
news:hc1ki5$o2$1@news.eternal-september.org:

> Tim Mathews wrote on Sun, 25 Oct 2009 10:23:38 -0300:
>> As I use my laptop sitting in my recliner most of the time, I'm
>> wondering about whether I should leave it plugged in or allow the
>> battery to run down and then recharge it. It's also occurred to me
>> that the stores have display models turned on most of the time and
>> they just leave the batteries out. Noting this, I'm wondering if
>> this is the best option and then I could just put the battery in if I
>> were leaving the condo and taking the laptop with me?
>>
>> Is there a definitive answer or opinion?
>
> Yes, when using AC it is best in virtually all cases to take the
> battery out. As the battery will last much longer, if you care.
>
> The downside is if the power goes out (or somebody unplugs it) the
> laptop loses power. Although the fix for this is getting an UPS
> (uninterruptible power supply).
>

Bill, you gonna restore his system when someone kicks the plug out during a
disk write to the FAT for him? NEVER turn off the laptop's NATURAL UPS!
The only time to remove the battery is to replace it or store it for long
periods of time....like you got it.

Leaving that battery plugged in permanently is the best thing for these
LEAKY LITHIUM ION beasts. They deep cycle themselves in 6 months,
destroying them for good.


--
Larry

You may be theoretically right, but in the real world, with almost all
laptops, you are wrong. Leaving a battery in a laptop that is plugged
in all the time is a recipe for destroying a battery. The culprit may
be heat from things having nothing to do with the battery or it's
charging circuit, or it may be that the charging circuit DOES
destructively overcharge the battery. Regardless, the real world
evidence of what happens is overwhelming.

As to you comments about the battery as a UPS ... those comments are
valid, BUT ..... would you rather buy a small (300 to 400VA) UPS for $10
to $35 (sometimes even "free after rebate"), or would you rather destroy
a battery that may cost $100 or more?


Larry wrote:
> Tim Mathews <NOSPAMtsmohio******.com> wrote in news:4ae4515c$0$23785
> $9a566e8b@news.aliant.net:
>
>> As I use my laptop sitting in my recliner most of the time, I'm
>> wondering about whether I should leave it plugged in or allow the
>> battery to run down and then recharge it. It's also occurred to me
> that
>> the stores have display models turned on most of the time and they
> just
>> leave the batteries out. Noting this, I'm wondering if this is the
> best
>> option and then I could just put the battery in if I were leaving the
>> condo and taking the laptop with me?
>>
>> Is there a definitive answer or opinion?
>>
>
> One of laptop's greatest features is the BUILT IN uninterruptable power
> supplies that prevent a power glitch or dropout from trashing your disk
> write and hosing your system......that is, until someone removes the
> battery pack from some nonsense they read on the net. NEVER operate the
> laptop without an even poorly charging battery pack in it. The light
> blink with a halfassed battery in it....you go right on as if nothing
> happened. Without the battery, you can hose the hard drive like a
> desktop box plugged straight into the wall....not good!
>
> Lithium Ion or Lithium Polymer batteries, unlike the old NiCd memory
> batteries that make everybody worried sick over their battery packs
> STILL, are FLOAT BATTERIES, like your car battery. You don't disconnect
> your car battery because you're driving to Texas, so you shouldn't
> disconnect your laptop because you're watching a movie.
>
> What kills float batteries, including these, is USEAGE, especially DEEP
> CYCLING! As a matter of fact, there is a special battery monitoring IC
> built right into the battery pack to PREVENT you from discharging the
> cells below 50%! The pack has twice as much capacity as the rating
> stamped on the outside of it. The only trouble is if you ever
> completely discharge a Li-Ion pack....you destroy it for good. If you
> only discharge it 10%, then religiously plug it in as soon as you get
> near the charger, you will extend its battery life by a LOT!
>
> Case in point: There's an old Gateway laptop XP box laying on a sheet
> of plexiglass to keep my bedclothes from blocking the air cooling that
> hasn't been unplugged in many years! I use it for watching movies or
> internet TV from my LAN in bed. The only time the charge light comes on
> is when the power fails. The IC is very well designed to float that
> battery pack and monitor its charge continuously when connected to
> power. When the power fails, even with the computer off, the IC
> dutifully recycles and goes into rapid charge, which, because the pack
> was in float mode continuously, causes the pack voltage to rise rapidly
> and the IC goes back into float mode in about a minute or less. That
> battery is 1997. It will STILL run the old Gateway about an hour or so
> guzzling its battery pack as always and blowing it out the side like a
> hair dryer....even after all these years. A couple times a year, I
> cycle the battery pack when I think of it, running it until the IC
> forces a shutdown, then immediately recharging back to its normal float
> mode. This is necessary to RESET the IC's memory of battery condition
> because Li-Ion batteries have internal leakage so the real charge is
> always less than what the IC thinks it is...especially if you leave it
> UNPLUGGED AND STORED most of the time.
>
> So, what to do? Leave it plugged in all the time. It cannot overcharge
> unless something is wrong with the charging circuit, which is very
> unlikely. If that happens, the pack gets hot, very hot and stays hot!
> Every 4 to 6 months, whenever you happen to think about it no panic,
> boot the computer with it unplugged and put on a movie with the display
> brightness up full for maximum load, hard drive buzzing away to kill the
> battery pack the fastest. Watch a big video from Google Video over
> wifi. That'll kill it hard and fast. As soon as the computer shuts it
> self down on dead battery, just plug the charger back in to fully
> recharge and leave it plugged in as much as possible. Take a nap,
> always a good idea, anyways. The IC will make sure the battery is in
> top condition if you leave it some power supply to work with. That's
> what we designed it to do.
>
> The worst thing any fool can do is brag about how long his sellphone
> will run on a charge, running it dead every time and cycling it into
> deep-as-it-can. Plug all your li-ion devices into their chargers at
> every opportunity. My sellphone battery is 5 years old and works great,
> too! Don't point out to him he's trashing his battery. They get so
> upset if you point to their little penises.....(c;]
>
>

Votes are in, I've removed the battery. As for accidentally kicking the
plug out, frankly, I just can't imagine how in the world I could manage
to do that. I suppose if I lived with kids or other people, it might
BUT living alone and with a safe place to lay it while I'm relaxing on
the recliner it's just beyond belief to think I could kick out the plug.

thanks to all for the tips

On 25/10/2009 10:31 PM, Barry Watzman wrote:
> You may be theoretically right, but in the real world, with almost all
> laptops, you are wrong. Leaving a battery in a laptop that is plugged in
> all the time is a recipe for destroying a battery. The culprit may be
> heat from things having nothing to do with the battery or it's charging
> circuit, or it may be that the charging circuit DOES destructively
> overcharge the battery. Regardless, the real world evidence of what
> happens is overwhelming.
>
> As to you comments about the battery as a UPS ... those comments are
> valid, BUT ..... would you rather buy a small (300 to 400VA) UPS for $10
> to $35 (sometimes even "free after rebate"), or would you rather destroy
> a battery that may cost $100 or more?
>
>
> Larry wrote:
>> Tim Mathews <NOSPAMtsmohio******.com> wrote in news:4ae4515c$0$23785
>> $9a566e8b@news.aliant.net:
>>
>>> As I use my laptop sitting in my recliner most of the time, I'm
>>> wondering about whether I should leave it plugged in or allow the
>>> battery to run down and then recharge it. It's also occurred to me
>> that
>>> the stores have display models turned on most of the time and they
>> just
>>> leave the batteries out. Noting this, I'm wondering if this is the
>> best
>>> option and then I could just put the battery in if I were leaving the
>>> condo and taking the laptop with me?
>>>
>>> Is there a definitive answer or opinion?
>>>
>>
>> One of laptop's greatest features is the BUILT IN uninterruptable
>> power supplies that prevent a power glitch or dropout from trashing
>> your disk write and hosing your system......that is, until someone
>> removes the battery pack from some nonsense they read on the net.
>> NEVER operate the laptop without an even poorly charging battery pack
>> in it. The light blink with a halfassed battery in it....you go right
>> on as if nothing happened. Without the battery, you can hose the hard
>> drive like a desktop box plugged straight into the wall....not good!
>>
>> Lithium Ion or Lithium Polymer batteries, unlike the old NiCd memory
>> batteries that make everybody worried sick over their battery packs
>> STILL, are FLOAT BATTERIES, like your car battery. You don't
>> disconnect your car battery because you're driving to Texas, so you
>> shouldn't disconnect your laptop because you're watching a movie.
>>
>> What kills float batteries, including these, is USEAGE, especially
>> DEEP CYCLING! As a matter of fact, there is a special battery
>> monitoring IC built right into the battery pack to PREVENT you from
>> discharging the cells below 50%! The pack has twice as much capacity
>> as the rating stamped on the outside of it. The only trouble is if you
>> ever completely discharge a Li-Ion pack....you destroy it for good. If
>> you only discharge it 10%, then religiously plug it in as soon as you
>> get near the charger, you will extend its battery life by a LOT!
>> Case in point: There's an old Gateway laptop XP box laying on a sheet
>> of plexiglass to keep my bedclothes from blocking the air cooling that
>> hasn't been unplugged in many years! I use it for watching movies or
>> internet TV from my LAN in bed. The only time the charge light comes
>> on is when the power fails. The IC is very well designed to float that
>> battery pack and monitor its charge continuously when connected to
>> power. When the power fails, even with the computer off, the IC
>> dutifully recycles and goes into rapid charge, which, because the pack
>> was in float mode continuously, causes the pack voltage to rise
>> rapidly and the IC goes back into float mode in about a minute or
>> less. That battery is 1997. It will STILL run the old Gateway about an
>> hour or so guzzling its battery pack as always and blowing it out the
>> side like a hair dryer....even after all these years. A couple times a
>> year, I cycle the battery pack when I think of it, running it until
>> the IC forces a shutdown, then immediately recharging back to its
>> normal float mode. This is necessary to RESET the IC's memory of
>> battery condition because Li-Ion batteries have internal leakage so
>> the real charge is always less than what the IC thinks it
>> is...especially if you leave it UNPLUGGED AND STORED most of the time.
>>
>> So, what to do? Leave it plugged in all the time. It cannot overcharge
>> unless something is wrong with the charging circuit, which is very
>> unlikely. If that happens, the pack gets hot, very hot and stays hot!
>> Every 4 to 6 months, whenever you happen to think about it no panic,
>> boot the computer with it unplugged and put on a movie with the
>> display brightness up full for maximum load, hard drive buzzing away
>> to kill the battery pack the fastest. Watch a big video from Google
>> Video over wifi. That'll kill it hard and fast. As soon as the
>> computer shuts it self down on dead battery, just plug the charger
>> back in to fully recharge and leave it plugged in as much as possible.
>> Take a nap, always a good idea, anyways. The IC will make sure the
>> battery is in top condition if you leave it some power supply to work
>> with. That's what we designed it to do.
>>
>> The worst thing any fool can do is brag about how long his sellphone
>> will run on a charge, running it dead every time and cycling it into
>> deep-as-it-can. Plug all your li-ion devices into their chargers at
>> every opportunity. My sellphone battery is 5 years old and works
>> great, too! Don't point out to him he's trashing his battery. They get
>> so upset if you point to their little penises.....(c;]
>>
>>

"Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CAF929F917A5noonehomecom@74.209.131.13...
> Tim Mathews <NOSPAMtsmohio******.com> wrote in news:4ae4515c$0$23785
> $9a566e8b@news.aliant.net:
>
>> As I use my laptop sitting in my recliner most of the time, I'm
>> wondering about whether I should leave it plugged in or allow the
>> battery to run down and then recharge it. It's also occurred to me
> that
>> the stores have display models turned on most of the time and they
> just
>> leave the batteries out. Noting this, I'm wondering if this is the
> best
>> option and then I could just put the battery in if I were leaving the
>> condo and taking the laptop with me?
>>
>> Is there a definitive answer or opinion?
>>

You've posted this bollocks before *and* had it pointed out to you.
>
> One of laptop's greatest features is the BUILT IN uninterruptable power
> supplies that prevent a power glitch or dropout from trashing your disk
> write and hosing your system......that is, until someone removes the
> battery pack from some nonsense they read on the net. NEVER operate the
> laptop without an even poorly charging battery pack in it. The light
> blink with a halfassed battery in it....you go right on as if nothing
> happened. Without the battery, you can hose the hard drive like a
> desktop box plugged straight into the wall....not good!
>

You can use the battery as a UPS if you want to. But why use a $200 battery
to do the job of a real UPS which will cost you not more than $30 and last a
lot longer?

> Lithium Ion or Lithium Polymer batteries, unlike the old NiCd memory
> batteries that make everybody worried sick over their battery packs
> STILL, are FLOAT BATTERIES, like your car battery. You don't disconnect
> your car battery because you're driving to Texas, so you shouldn't
> disconnect your laptop because you're watching a movie.
>
> What kills float batteries, including these, is USEAGE, especially DEEP
> CYCLING! As a matter of fact, there is a special battery monitoring IC
> built right into the battery pack to PREVENT you from discharging the
> cells below 50%! The pack has twice as much capacity as the rating
> stamped on the outside of it. The only trouble is if you ever
> completely discharge a Li-Ion pack....you destroy it for good. If you
> only discharge it 10%, then religiously plug it in as soon as you get
> near the charger, you will extend its battery life by a LOT!
>

Li-ion batteries can be fully discharged (to 2.8 volts per cell endpoint)
without any damage to them whatsoever. The pack has exactly the rating
shown on it.

> Case in point: There's an old Gateway laptop XP box laying on a sheet
> of plexiglass to keep my bedclothes from blocking the air cooling that
> hasn't been unplugged in many years! I use it for watching movies or
> internet TV from my LAN in bed. The only time the charge light comes on
> is when the power fails. The IC is very well designed to float that
> battery pack and monitor its charge continuously when connected to
> power. When the power fails, even with the computer off, the IC
> dutifully recycles and goes into rapid charge, which, because the pack
> was in float mode continuously, causes the pack voltage to rise rapidly
> and the IC goes back into float mode in about a minute or less. That
> battery is 1997. It will STILL run the old Gateway about an hour or so
> guzzling its battery pack as always and blowing it out the side like a
> hair dryer....even after all these years. A couple times a year, I
> cycle the battery pack when I think of it, running it until the IC
> forces a shutdown, then immediately recharging back to its normal float
> mode. This is necessary to RESET the IC's memory of battery condition
> because Li-Ion batteries have internal leakage so the real charge is
> always less than what the IC thinks it is...especially if you leave it
> UNPLUGGED AND STORED most of the time.
>
> So, what to do? Leave it plugged in all the time. It cannot overcharge
> unless something is wrong with the charging circuit, which is very
> unlikely. If that happens, the pack gets hot, very hot and stays hot!
> Every 4 to 6 months, whenever you happen to think about it no panic,
> boot the computer with it unplugged and put on a movie with the display
> brightness up full for maximum load, hard drive buzzing away to kill the
> battery pack the fastest. Watch a big video from Google Video over
> wifi. That'll kill it hard and fast. As soon as the computer shuts it
> self down on dead battery, just plug the charger back in to fully
> recharge and leave it plugged in as much as possible. Take a nap,
> always a good idea, anyways. The IC will make sure the battery is in
> top condition if you leave it some power supply to work with. That's
> what we designed it to do.
>

It is not overcharging that causes the battery in laptops to fail
prematurely despite many beliefs to the contrary. It is the heat of the
internal parts (processor disk drive etc) that heats up the battery pack
that causes the premature failure. Li-ion batteries deteriorate when
subjected to even moderate amounts of warmth. Different laptops heat the
batteries to different extents depending on the internal structure, so
effects will naturally vary.

> The worst thing any fool can do is brag about how long his sellphone
> will run on a charge, running it dead every time and cycling it into
> deep-as-it-can. Plug all your li-ion devices into their chargers at
> every opportunity. My sellphone battery is 5 years old and works great,
> too! Don't point out to him he's trashing his battery. They get so
> upset if you point to their little penises.....(c;]
>

5 years is still young for a battery.

I have Li-ion batteries that are now 15 years old that have been regularly
fully discharged to their end point before being recharged. Although all a
showing a reduction in capacity, the only ill effect is that one's voltage
drops to 3.9 volts when removed from charge. It still has a similar
capacity to the others.

The other thing that causes Li-ion batteries to deteriorate is simply not
using them. They require the equivalent of a full charge/discharge roughly
every 45 days to have the maximum life. That and not drawing too much
current.

On Oct 26, 4:55*am, "M.I.5¾" <no....@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote:
> "Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
>
> news:Xns9CAF929F917A5noonehomecom@74.209.131.13...
>
>
>
> > Tim Mathews <NOSPAMtsmo...******.com> wrote in news:4ae4515c$0$23785
> > $9a566...@news.aliant.net:
>
> >> As I use my laptop sitting in my recliner most of the time, I'm
> >> wondering about whether I should leave it plugged in or allow the
> >> battery to run down and then recharge it. *It's also occurred to me
> > that
> >> the stores have display models turned on most of the time and they
> > just
> >> leave the batteries out. *Noting this, I'm wondering if this is the
> > best
> >> option and then I could just put the battery in if I were leaving the
> >> condo and taking the laptop with me?
>
> >> Is there a definitive answer or opinion?
>
> You've posted this bollocks before *and* had it pointed out to you.
>
>
>
> > One of laptop's greatest features is the BUILT IN uninterruptable power
> > supplies that prevent a power glitch or dropout from trashing your disk
> > write and hosing your system......that is, until someone removes the
> > battery pack from some nonsense they read on the net. *NEVER operate the
> > laptop without an even poorly charging battery pack in it. *The light
> > blink with a halfassed battery in it....you go right on as if nothing
> > happened. *Without the battery, you can hose the hard drive like a
> > desktop box plugged straight into the wall....not good!
>
> You can use the battery as a UPS if you want to. *But why use a $200 battery
> to do the job of a real UPS which will cost you not more than $30 and last a
> lot longer?
>
> > Lithium Ion or Lithium Polymer batteries, unlike the old NiCd memory
> > batteries that make everybody worried sick over their battery packs
> > STILL, are FLOAT BATTERIES, like your car battery. *You don't disconnect
> > your car battery because you're driving to Texas, so you shouldn't
> > disconnect your laptop because you're watching a movie.
>
> > What kills float batteries, including these, is USEAGE, especially DEEP
> > CYCLING! *As a matter of fact, there is a special battery monitoring IC
> > built right into the battery pack to PREVENT you from discharging the
> > cells below 50%! *The pack has twice as much capacity as the rating
> > stamped on the outside of it. *The only trouble is if you ever
> > completely discharge a Li-Ion pack....you destroy it for good. *If you
> > only discharge it 10%, then religiously plug it in as soon as you get
> > near the charger, you will extend its battery life by a LOT!
>
> Li-ion batteries can be fully discharged (to 2.8 volts per cell endpoint)
> without any damage to them whatsoever. *The pack has exactly the rating
> shown on it.
>
>
>
> > Case in point: *There's an old Gateway laptop XP box laying on a sheet
> > of plexiglass to keep my bedclothes from blocking the air cooling that
> > hasn't been unplugged in many years! *I use it for watching movies or
> > internet TV from my LAN in bed. *The only time the charge light comeson
> > is when the power fails. *The IC is very well designed to float that
> > battery pack and monitor its charge continuously when connected to
> > power. *When the power fails, even with the computer off, the IC
> > dutifully recycles and goes into rapid charge, which, because the pack
> > was in float mode continuously, causes the pack voltage to rise rapidly
> > and the IC goes back into float mode in about a minute or less. *That
> > battery is 1997. *It will STILL run the old Gateway about an hour or so
> > guzzling its battery pack as always and blowing it out the side like a
> > hair dryer....even after all these years. *A couple times a year, I
> > cycle the battery pack when I think of it, running it until the IC
> > forces a shutdown, then immediately recharging back to its normal float
> > mode. *This is necessary to RESET the IC's memory of battery condition
> > because Li-Ion batteries have internal leakage so the real charge is
> > always less than what the IC thinks it is...especially if you leave it
> > UNPLUGGED AND STORED most of the time.
>
> > So, what to do? *Leave it plugged in all the time. *It cannot overcharge
> > unless something is wrong with the charging circuit, which is very
> > unlikely. *If that happens, the pack gets hot, very hot and stays hot!
> > Every 4 to 6 months, whenever you happen to think about it no panic,
> > boot the computer with it unplugged and put on a movie with the display
> > brightness up full for maximum load, hard drive buzzing away to kill the
> > battery pack the fastest. *Watch a big video from Google Video over
> > wifi. *That'll kill it hard and fast. *As soon as the computer shuts it
> > self down on dead battery, just plug the charger back in to fully
> > recharge and leave it plugged in as much as possible. *Take a nap,
> > always a good idea, anyways. *The IC will make sure the battery is in
> > top condition if you leave it some power supply to work with. *That's
> > what we designed it to do.
>
> It is not overcharging that causes the battery in laptops to fail
> prematurely despite many beliefs to the contrary. *It is the heat of the
> internal parts (processor disk drive etc) that heats up the battery pack
> that causes the premature failure. *Li-ion batteries deteriorate when
> subjected to even moderate amounts of warmth. *Different laptops heat the
> batteries to different extents depending on the internal structure, so
> effects will naturally vary.
>
> > The worst thing any fool can do is brag about how long his sellphone
> > will run on a charge, running it dead every time and cycling it into
> > deep-as-it-can. *Plug all your li-ion devices into their chargers at
> > every opportunity. *My sellphone battery is 5 years old and works great,
> > too! *Don't point out to him he's trashing his battery. *They get so
> > upset if you point to their little penises.....(c;]
>
> 5 years is still young for a battery.
>
> I have Li-ion batteries that are now 15 years old that have been regularly
> fully discharged to their end point before being recharged. *Although all a
> showing a reduction in capacity, the only ill effect is that one's voltage
> drops to 3.9 volts when removed from charge. *It still has a similar
> capacity to the others.
>
> The other thing that causes Li-ion batteries to deteriorate is simply not
> using them. *They require the equivalent of a full charge/discharge roughly
> every 45 days to have the maximum life. *That and not drawing too much
> current.

just to add - we lose our hydro power here on a regular basis, and my
tower has crashed a fair number of times in consequence. I have not
had subsequent problems. Is it possible that the effects of a crash of
this type are exaggerated?
I think I will be unclipping my laptop batteries from now on.

In
news:6b633640-3791-41ac-b6b6-d0d69546148e@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com,
audaxrex********.com typed on Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:44:34 -0700 (PDT):
> just to add - we lose our hydro power here on a regular basis, and my
> tower has crashed a fair number of times in consequence. I have not
> had subsequent problems. Is it possible that the effects of a crash of
> this type are exaggerated?
> I think I will be unclipping my laptop batteries from now on.

I agree with leaving the battery part out. Although I must add, about 2%
of the time if the computer loses power when booting Windows. It
corrupts the boot configuration while it is writing to the drive and it
can make the OS unbootable.

Although if you make backups, this isn't a big deal. Or if you have the
knowledge what files Windows needs to boot and all, can get you through
too. And if this happens all of the time because of the environment,
incorporating MS EWF in Windows XP would be the way I would go. I do
have EWF installed in most of my computers, but for different reasons.

--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2

<audaxrex********.com> wrote in message
news:6b633640-3791-41ac-b6b6-d0d69546148e@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 26, 4:55 am, "M.I.5¾" <no....@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote:
> > The worst thing any fool can do is brag about how long his sellphone
> > will run on a charge, running it dead every time and cycling it into
> > deep-as-it-can. Plug all your li-ion devices into their chargers at
> > every opportunity. My sellphone battery is 5 years old and works great,
> > too! Don't point out to him he's trashing his battery. They get so
> > upset if you point to their little penises.....(c;]
>
> 5 years is still young for a battery.
>
> I have Li-ion batteries that are now 15 years old that have been regularly
> fully discharged to their end point before being recharged. Although all a
> showing a reduction in capacity, the only ill effect is that one's voltage
> drops to 3.9 volts when removed from charge. It still has a similar
> capacity to the others.
>
> The other thing that causes Li-ion batteries to deteriorate is simply not
> using them. They require the equivalent of a full charge/discharge roughly
> every 45 days to have the maximum life. That and not drawing too much
> current.

just to add - we lose our hydro power here on a regular basis, and my
tower has crashed a fair number of times in consequence. I have not
had subsequent problems. Is it possible that the effects of a crash of
this type are exaggerated?
I think I will be unclipping my laptop batteries from now on.

----------

It all depends on at what point in the procedings the power fails.
Generally, if the hard disk is in the middle of a data write operation, that
operation is unlikely to be completed. Exactly what effect this has
depends, of course, on what was being written at the time. If it is some
bit of user data, then that data may not be available after the outage. If,
on the other hand, it was an important system file, then effects may vary
from some part of the OS not working properly to a system that will not
boot.

If you lose power regularly, then consider a UPS. If you search on the net,
you can find some very good UPSs that are sold for less money than could buy
just the battery for.

On Nov 2, 4:08*am, "M.I.5¾" <no....@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote:
> <audax...********.com> wrote in message
>
> news:6b633640-3791-41ac-b6b6-d0d69546148e@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 26, 4:55 am, "M.I.5¾" <no....@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > The worst thing any fool can do is brag about how long his sellphone
> > > will run on a charge, running it dead every time and cycling it into
> > > deep-as-it-can. Plug all your li-ion devices into their chargers at
> > > every opportunity. My sellphone battery is 5 years old and works great,
> > > too! Don't point out to him he's trashing his battery. They get so
> > > upset if you point to their little penises.....(c;]
>
> > 5 years is still young for a battery.
>
> > I have Li-ion batteries that are now 15 years old that have been regularly
> > fully discharged to their end point before being recharged. Although all a
> > showing a reduction in capacity, the only ill effect is that one's voltage
> > drops to 3.9 volts when removed from charge. It still has a similar
> > capacity to the others.
>
> > The other thing that causes Li-ion batteries to deteriorate is simply not
> > using them. They require the equivalent of a full charge/discharge roughly
> > every 45 days to have the maximum life. That and not drawing too much
> > current.
>
> just to add - we lose our hydro power here on a regular basis, and my
> tower has crashed a fair number of times in consequence. I have not
> had subsequent problems. Is it possible that the effects of a crash of
> this type are exaggerated?
> * * I think I will be unclipping my laptop batteries from now on.
>
> ----------
>
> It all depends on at what point in the procedings the power fails.
> Generally, if the hard disk is in the middle of a data write operation, that
> operation is unlikely to be completed. *Exactly what effect this has
> depends, of course, on what was being written at the time. *If it is some
> bit of user data, then that data may not be available after the outage. *If,
> on the other hand, it was an important system file, then effects may vary
> from some part of the OS not working properly to a system that will not
> boot.
>
> If you lose power regularly, then consider a UPS. *If you search on thenet,
> you can find some very good UPSs that are sold for less money than could buy
> just the battery for.

thanks, both of you, and i will consider a ups. This little netbook
(Acer Aspire n270) is so amazing, tho', that i may drop the tower
altogether - dax

audaxrex********.com wrote on Fri, 6 Nov 2009 05:20:52 -0800 (PST):
> thanks, both of you, and i will consider a ups. This little netbook
> (Acer Aspire n270) is so amazing, tho', that i may drop the tower
> altogether - dax

Yes UPS are really nice. You can also plug in other low power devices
like your cordless phone too, so they still work when the power goes out.

And yes these netbooks are really slick. Many are realizing that they
don't need anything else. Also it is hard to believe they can pack
everything in such a tiny box, eh?

--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 702G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Xandros Linux (build 2007-10-19 13:03)