"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

>Remember you said that the Palm IIIc (so does my Palm IIIxe) uses RAM
>instead of flash memory? So if the battery dies, you lose everything...

The newer non-volatile memory Palms still have around 10 Meg of
volatile non-flash working memory. The working memory works like the
old Palms in that it keeps and runs programs in the working memory
thus they are already loaded and are available in an instant. However
if I try to use one that I haven't used in a while it is slow to load
because it must be copied from flash memory to working memory before
it can run. (And of course if the 10Meg is full it just kicks
something else out.)

>And when it (those III models) power down, they keep the RAM alive.
>Thus running in what I call standby mode.

So I have 10 Meg instead of your 8 Meg in this "standby" mode. Perhaps
part of the battery longevity thing.

>My Palm III both c and xe models does have either a ROM or flash memory.

You have flash ROM in both models. (Palm put out an upgrade kits for
OS 3.2 and 3.5.) JackFlash or FlashPro were apps (hacks?) that could
free up some of the ROM flash for the user. You got 800K in OS3.1 but
only 300K in your OS 3.5 because the newer OS used more of the
available flash.

>So no, either it has to be synced or the battery must always keep the
>RAM alive.

I use RFBackup on my m125 (AAA with SD card capability). It saves the
Palm memory to the SD card and then restores it exactly. Virtually all
the m1xx models had a BAD defect. After a year or so the capacitor
that kept the memory up while you changed batteries failed. So every
time you changed the AAAs away went the memory. Course you could just
re-sync but not everybody carried a computer with them. So I just use
RFBackup. I still use that m125 on camping trips. When I slow the
processor down to 10MHz (from the normal 32MHz) I can get almost 40
hours of book reading on one set of batteries. 8-O I read a lot of
books on those old green screens but only do it now days if I have
to... ;)


>The Palm IIIxe uses AAA batteries and has a battery cover.

I also once had a IIIxe. I bought a rechargeable battery kit for it at
my local Sears. It came with a NiCad battery box that fit in where the
AAAs went. It came with a new battery door that contacted the battery
box and had an outside jack for the charger. But since the IIIxe
normally got around 20 hours on a set of AAAs this thing was more
gadget than practical.

BTW when that Sears store stopped selling Palms I found a brand new
m125 on the clearance rack for $30. What a steal that was.

>Oh the Palm IIIc has to be disassembled, but it does has a plug on the
>motherboard. The replacement battery didn't have a circuit board
>attached to it from China which worries me a bit.

Not to worry. All the Li-Ion battery circuitry is on the Palm board.

In news:h6a5nt$7ks$1@news.eternal-september.org,
~misfit~ typed on Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:45:54 +1200:
> Somewhere on teh intarwebs John Doue wrote:
>> BillW50 wrote:
>>> In news:W0Ohm.12$Kn3.9@read4.inet.fi,
>>> John Doue typed on Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:52:38 GMT:
>>>> Well, all this is very interesting but I remain challenged by the
>>>> following case:
>>>>
>>>> I own a Twinhead A9110 bought new back in 2000 whose battery is
>>>> common to a Compaq model the name of which I forgot. Here is one
>>>> example of site that sells it:
>>>>> http://www.apexbattery.com/twinhead-...ry-b-5729.html
>>>> Even back when I bought the machine, in the machine or out of it,
>>>> the battery would discharge fully in about 2 weeks.
>>>>
>>>> I recently decided to gave a new life to this machine and bought a
>>>> brand new battery, although I knew its costs was out of proportion
>>>> with the practical value of the machine. Same thing, the battery
>>>> shows the same behavior. In other words, if I go away from home
>>>> (without this sentimental brick!) for more than 2 weeks, the
>>>> battery is almost empty, whether I leave it in or out of the
>>>> machine. For fear I being unable to charge it again, I leave the
>>>> machine on
>>>> stand-by when I am away for an extended period of time.
>>>>
>>>> Obviously, the machine has nothing to do with the problem. Is there
>>>> a way I can put my hands on a compatible battery which would not
>>>> have this discharge problem? Anything I can do about this?
>>>>
>>>> I have at least 3 batteries which I had kept in cool storage which
>>>> are now useless because I cannot recharge them. A shame!
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> John Doue
>>>
>>> Say John, that battery looks very much like the old Toshiba
>>> batteries. They don't have that problem such as yours by the way.
>>> Does your batteries also have two connections not shown in the
>>> picture on the underneath side? The Toshiba batteries does.
>>>
>>> By the way, something doesn't sound right to me. If the battery goes
>>> dead in a two week time, how could they store them for any length of
>>> time? Maybe the internal safety circuits drain the battery down to a
>>> point and then stops draining. Which wouldn't sound to be a very
>>> good design to me. The only other thing that makes sense to me is
>>> that old lithium batteries can act that way. Although here is a
>>> thought, what about those outfits that rebuild old laptop
>>> batteries? Maybe that would be worth a shot?
>>>
>>
>> Bill, no they don't have connectors underneath, just (!) six on the
>> side (and not five as you might see on some sites). I have also been
>> wondering about storage ... but if this had happened to me only once,
>> I would have thought, this was just a freak thing. But it happened on
>> all batteries. Now, given the fact I keep this machine for
>> emergencies only, I won't spend any more money on batteries and if
>> need be, run it on a UPS ; could get get two for the price of one
>> battery. Nonsense.
>> I have never tried those outfits which rebuild old batteries, and
>> now, I think it is too late in the game to invest anymore money here.
>> But I am still curious to know if one of those dead batteries I still
>> have could be revived without having to call 911 ... At least one of
>> them has not been used more than once or twice.
>
> Are you a bit "handy"? I have a mate who has rebuilt a few of his own
> battery packs with Li-Ion cells sourced remarkably cheaply (by the
> box of about 25 cells) from New Zealand's version of eBay,
> Trademe.co.nz. He said that there's one guy who sells some now and
> then. As you have the dead batteries (cases/circuitry) perhaps it's
> something you might like to try?
> Cheers,
> --
> Shaun.

Shaun, have you ever had a lithium battery burst into flames before? I
haven't, but I have seen the videos on it. I have even removed all
protection and charged them up manually. Monitor the current and the
temperature. As long as they stay cool you are doing fine. Although even
then, you could be in trouble once the voltage gets 4.2v per cell or
higher.

Disassembly creates another problem. While disassembly, you can
accidentally short out the battery. Battery types like Ni-Cads and Ni-MH
can take this without any explosion in my experience (although the
longevity goes downhill quickly). Lithium batteries are pretty dangerous
accidentally doing the very same. As I am not sure how much they can
take before two or three feet of flames shoot out. And water won't work
to put it out and it only makes it worse I understand.

If it happens inside of a tin box where the flames won't spread to
anything else. You should be okay. Still a bit dangerous, but if you
know what you are doing... you know. So dealing with lithium
batteries... I don't know. If they have seen the videos and see what
lithium explosions can do, I guess it would be okay. But they are not
really safe to dissect without some risk.

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) - Windows XP SP2

AJL <129@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

>"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

>>Oh the Palm IIIc has to be disassembled, but it does has a plug on the
>>motherboard. The replacement battery didn't have a circuit board
>>attached to it from China which worries me a bit.
>
>Not to worry. All the Li-Ion battery circuitry is on the Palm board.

I spoke to soon. Maybe you should worry. This says you should have
integrated circuitry on the battery.

http://www.batteryship.com/htmlos/ht...30647619127009

AJL <129@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

>AJL <129@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
>
>>"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>>>Oh the Palm IIIc has to be disassembled, but it does has a plug on the
>>>motherboard. The replacement battery didn't have a circuit board
>>>attached to it from China which worries me a bit.
>>
>>Not to worry. All the Li-Ion battery circuitry is on the Palm board.
>
>I spoke to soon. Maybe you should worry. This says you should have
>integrated circuitry on the battery.
>
>http://www.batteryship.com/htmlos/ht...30647619127009

I was curious so I just took my old Palm battery apart. Sure enough
there's a tiny board inside. Bet there's one in yours too...

BillW50 wrote:
> In news:L%Whm.115$Kn3.69@read4.inet.fi,
> John Doue typed on Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:05:47 GMT:
>> Barry Watzman wrote:
>>> Something is very wrong. No battery should self-discharge that
>>> quickly ... especially a Lithium battery (lithium batteries are
>>> unusually stable). I think you have two bad batteries, or the
>>> design is poor (lithium batteries have a microprocessor inside the
>>> battery, but it should draw microamps, no more, and should not
>>> discharge the battery to the point of damage).
>>>
>>>
>>> John Doue wrote:
>>>> Well, all this is very interesting but I remain challenged by the
>>>> following case:
>>>>
>>>> I own a Twinhead A9110 bought new back in 2000 whose battery is
>>>> common to a Compaq model the name of which I forgot. Here is one
>>>> example of site that sells it:
>>>>> http://www.apexbattery.com/twinhead-...ry-b-5729.html
>>>> Even back when I bought the machine, in the machine or out of it,
>>>> the battery would discharge fully in about 2 weeks.
>>>>
>>>> I recently decided to gave a new life to this machine and bought a
>>>> brand new battery, although I knew its costs was out of proportion
>>>> with the practical value of the machine. Same thing, the battery
>>>> shows the same behavior. In other words, if I go away from home
>>>> (without this sentimental brick!) for more than 2 weeks, the
>>>> battery is almost empty, whether I leave it in or out of the
>>>> machine. For fear I being unable to charge it again, I leave the
>>>> machine on
>>>> stand-by when I am away for an extended period of time.
>>>>
>>>> Obviously, the machine has nothing to do with the problem. Is there
>>>> a way I can put my hands on a compatible battery which would not
>>>> have this discharge problem? Anything I can do about this?
>>>>
>>>> I have at least 3 batteries which I had kept in cool storage which
>>>> are now useless because I cannot recharge them. A shame!
>>>>
>> Barry, I am not talking one or two batteries: over the life of the
>> machine (9 years now), I bought at least 5 batteries, since I had a
>> need for this laptop, and it was meeting my needs fairly well at the
>> time.
>> I still have at least 3 of them, one or two of them being almost
>> unused, but I cannot recharge them. I apparently kept too long in
>> storage, not realizing I would run into this problem, and unable to
>> recharge them, since my wife was becoming my ex-wife and she was
>> hanging on to the machine ...
>>
>> --
>> John Doue
>
> Hi John! Well I am sticking to the story they act like old batteries.
> And what makes sense to me while you bought them as new, you have no
> idea how long ago they were manufactured. As they could have been
> sitting on the shelf for years. As they sure act like they were.
>
> Those old Toshiba batteries look just like yours. As those lithium types
> has 10 contacts (plus two on the bottom side) while Toshiba Ni-MH
> batteries has 5 contacts, like yours (plus two on the bottom side). For
> a brief time, Toshiba did have 5 contact lithiums. Those two odd
> contacts on the other side of Toshibas only get shorted when inserted
> into a charger or a laptop. And one of them is the plus side of the
> battery and when shorted, brings the positive point of the battery to
> the plus side of the other main roll of contacts.
>
> I have been searching on the Internet for your battery and there are no
> deals. They want $102 and up for them. But virtually all of them come
> with a one year warrantee, so if it dies within a year you can get free
> batteries for a year at least. Well that is how I read it anyway, they
> might feel differently.
>
> Those places that rebuilds has an advantage that you get fresh lithium
> cells. That is why I mentioned it. Plus they are much cheaper than 100
> bucks plus.
>
> Although this soon to be ex thing changes things. I don't know about the
> ex part, but maybe she having it might be the best thing that ever
> happened between you and that laptop. <grin>
>
Hi Bill, Shaun,

Now, I was probably unclear, I do now have full possesion of the machine
which I had lent my ex to be to help keep some communication channel
open, for the sake of our daugher ... who now has her own machine :-)

About the old battery theory, of course, I thought of that. By the way,
those batteries were/are also meant for Winbooks, which probably
explains they are still easily available. What goes against, I believe,
the old battery theory is the fact that when I initially install them,
they do give me the battery life I expect ... as long as I do not let
their voltage go too close to zero.

To answer a question from Shaun, I do not feel I can open the battery
pack without make irremediable damage.

What would be nice is, if someone could figure out a way to trigger back
the circuit so that it allows the battery to charge anew ...

May be one day, if I have spare change, I will try those outfits that
rebuild batteries, out of curiosity ...

--
John Doue

BillW50 wrote:
> In news:h6a3bq$igt$2@news.eternal-september.org,
> Barry Watzman typed on Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:05:24 -0400:
>> Someone call the news networks! Notify the White House! Call out the
>> National Guard!
>>
>> I actually agree with Bill on this one.
>>
>> BillW50 wrote:
>>> Hi John! Well I am sticking to the story they act like old batteries.
>>> And what makes sense to me while you bought them as new, you have no
>>> idea how long ago they were manufactured. As they could have been
>>> sitting on the shelf for years. As they sure act like they were.
>
> Just in case I have never said this before... but Barry is indeed a very
> smart guy. So nobody should ever automatically discount what he says. I
> would definitely grade Barry in the 90's for sure. So Barry is
> definitely no light weight by any means. We just differ on some of the
> more finer points from time to time. Although this isn't one of them.
> <grin>
>

I do agree, Barry is an important contributor here and most importantly,
he has hands-on experience ... So, even his sometimes blunt way of
stating his points might rub the wrong some sensitive skins, the point
remains, he knows first hand what he is talking about.

Don't blush ...
--
John Doue

Somewhere on teh intarwebs Meat Plow wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:52:46 -0600, "Buffalo"
> <Eric@nada.com.invalid>wrote:
>> Meat Plow wrote:
>>> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:34:41 -0600, "Buffalo"
>>> <Eric@nada.com.invalid>wrote:
>>>> Meat Plow wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:22:15 -0700 (PDT), starved@rock.comwrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Brand new Dell Inspiron 1545 laptop purchased last week. At this
>>>>>> time the system will be used as a desktop, running on AC power
>>>>>> continously.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> According to http://www.batteryuniversity.com and other sources,
>>>>>> leaving the battery in - while always running on AC power and
>>>>>> never on battery power - will shorten the life of the battery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So the battery's been removed, and with a 40% charge on it, it's
>>>>>> in a ziplock bag and stored in the refrigerator.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The plan is to remove it from storage after some time, put it
>>>>>> back in the laptop, recharge it back up to 40%, and then store
>>>>>> it in the refrigerator again. This cycle will be repeated
>>>>>> indefinitely.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My questions are:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. How long can the battery remain stored in the refrigerator
>>>>>> before it has to be recharged? One month? Two months?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Should I be concerned about corrosion of the contacts or dust
>>>>>> buildup in an empty battery compartment?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> Lithium Ion batteries have a finite number of charges. Has nothing
>>>>> to do with leaving it in the laptop while on AC provided the power
>>>>> functions of the laptop work as designed.
>>>>
>>>> From the link the OP supplied:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Doesn't apply to my experience, YMMV. Refrigeration may increase the
>>> shelf life but the bottom line is still charge cycles.
>>
>> I agree with you on the charge cycles being finite and one of the
>> limiting factors.
>> Leaving it in the laptop subjects it to above room temps and
>> shortens its ability to regain its capacity.
>> The chart on the link posted by Dave was pretty enlightening.
>> Buffalo
>>
>
> Depends on where the battery is located. Don't assume all laptop
> battery packs are mounted close to sources of heat.
>
> On my two laptops the battery pack is up front away from heat sources.
> Both were new in 2004. Both still run 2 hours on a charge as they did
> 5 years ago. Both have remained attached for their entire life so far
> and show no appreciable decrease in capacity.
>
> There are plenty of arguments for and against removal while using as a
> desktop. I'm for removal as long as it doesn't compromise the laptop's
> physical well being like (but not limited to) allowing foreign objects
> to infiltrate or interfering with the laptop's electronics.

Not to mention cooling. If there are 'apertures' exposed by removing the
battery then air could be drawn in there when the fan is running,
effectively short-circuiting the 'cooling path' and allowing some components
to get too hot.

Luckilly for me my IBM/Lenovo T60 thinkPad (with an extended 9 cell battery)
that I only use on mains has software that allows you to set the parameters
for charging. (If not used as soon as charge drops to 95% then the battery
is topped off and one more cycle is aded to the count.

I have my battery set to only charge when it drops to 40% and then to stop
charging at 60%. As this machine (2.16GHz C2D T7400, 15" 4:3 IPS screen, 3GB
RAM, ATI X1400/128MB, 320GB 7200rpm HDD) is no low-powered glorified pocket
calculator it does use some power. I get 3.5 hours on a full charge so
figure that, if I need to take it with me without warning, I'll get between
one and just over two hours depending on where the battery level is within
my parameters. (I have a spare adapter in my laptop bag as well.) Also, I
hope that the battery will last longer than if it were constantly being
topped off from 95%.

I have a few power outages here so, with that taken into consideration,
would rather not run the machine batteryless. Having a battery is like
having a built-in UPS.
--
Shaun.

"Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's
warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.

Somewhere on teh intarwebs BillW50 wrote:
> In news:h6a5nt$7ks$1@news.eternal-september.org,
> ~misfit~ typed on Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:45:54 +1200:
>> Somewhere on teh intarwebs John Doue wrote:
>>> BillW50 wrote:
>>>> In news:W0Ohm.12$Kn3.9@read4.inet.fi,
>>>> John Doue typed on Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:52:38 GMT:
>>>>> Well, all this is very interesting but I remain challenged by the
>>>>> following case:
>>>>>
>>>>> I own a Twinhead A9110 bought new back in 2000 whose battery is
>>>>> common to a Compaq model the name of which I forgot. Here is one
>>>>> example of site that sells it:
>>>>>> http://www.apexbattery.com/twinhead-...ry-b-5729.html
>>>>> Even back when I bought the machine, in the machine or out of it,
>>>>> the battery would discharge fully in about 2 weeks.
>>>>>
>>>>> I recently decided to gave a new life to this machine and bought a
>>>>> brand new battery, although I knew its costs was out of proportion
>>>>> with the practical value of the machine. Same thing, the battery
>>>>> shows the same behavior. In other words, if I go away from home
>>>>> (without this sentimental brick!) for more than 2 weeks, the
>>>>> battery is almost empty, whether I leave it in or out of the
>>>>> machine. For fear I being unable to charge it again, I leave the
>>>>> machine on
>>>>> stand-by when I am away for an extended period of time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously, the machine has nothing to do with the problem. Is
>>>>> there a way I can put my hands on a compatible battery which
>>>>> would not have this discharge problem? Anything I can do about
>>>>> this? I have at least 3 batteries which I had kept in cool storage
>>>>> which
>>>>> are now useless because I cannot recharge them. A shame!
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> John Doue
>>>>
>>>> Say John, that battery looks very much like the old Toshiba
>>>> batteries. They don't have that problem such as yours by the way.
>>>> Does your batteries also have two connections not shown in the
>>>> picture on the underneath side? The Toshiba batteries does.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, something doesn't sound right to me. If the battery
>>>> goes dead in a two week time, how could they store them for any
>>>> length of time? Maybe the internal safety circuits drain the
>>>> battery down to a point and then stops draining. Which wouldn't
>>>> sound to be a very good design to me. The only other thing that
>>>> makes sense to me is that old lithium batteries can act that way.
>>>> Although here is a thought, what about those outfits that rebuild
>>>> old laptop batteries? Maybe that would be worth a shot?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Bill, no they don't have connectors underneath, just (!) six on the
>>> side (and not five as you might see on some sites). I have also been
>>> wondering about storage ... but if this had happened to me only
>>> once, I would have thought, this was just a freak thing. But it
>>> happened on all batteries. Now, given the fact I keep this machine
>>> for emergencies only, I won't spend any more money on batteries and
>>> if need be, run it on a UPS ; could get get two for the price of one
>>> battery. Nonsense.
>>> I have never tried those outfits which rebuild old batteries, and
>>> now, I think it is too late in the game to invest anymore money
>>> here. But I am still curious to know if one of those dead batteries
>>> I still have could be revived without having to call 911 ... At
>>> least one of them has not been used more than once or twice.
>>
>> Are you a bit "handy"? I have a mate who has rebuilt a few of his own
>> battery packs with Li-Ion cells sourced remarkably cheaply (by the
>> box of about 25 cells) from New Zealand's version of eBay,
>> Trademe.co.nz. He said that there's one guy who sells some now and
>> then. As you have the dead batteries (cases/circuitry) perhaps it's
>> something you might like to try?
>> Cheers,
>> --
>> Shaun.
>
> Shaun, have you ever had a lithium battery burst into flames before? I
> haven't, but I have seen the videos on it. I have even removed all
> protection and charged them up manually. Monitor the current and the
> temperature. As long as they stay cool you are doing fine. Although
> even then, you could be in trouble once the voltage gets 4.2v per
> cell or higher.
>
> Disassembly creates another problem. While disassembly, you can
> accidentally short out the battery. Battery types like Ni-Cads and
> Ni-MH can take this without any explosion in my experience (although
> the longevity goes downhill quickly). Lithium batteries are pretty
> dangerous accidentally doing the very same. As I am not sure how much
> they can take before two or three feet of flames shoot out. And water
> won't work to put it out and it only makes it worse I understand.
>
> If it happens inside of a tin box where the flames won't spread to
> anything else. You should be okay. Still a bit dangerous, but if you
> know what you are doing... you know. So dealing with lithium
> batteries... I don't know. If they have seen the videos and see what
> lithium explosions can do, I guess it would be okay. But they are not
> really safe to dissect without some risk.

Agreed Bill, hence my question about 'handiness'. Mind you, my friend who
plays with these things doesn't think much of blowing up a battery pack. He
makes them for his son's RC cars and tells me that they just can't take the
power-drain of a Ni-MH without blowing up. Bear in mind this guy also is
into amatuer rocketry and, as an engineer by trade, once bought a spare set
of helicopter rotor blades from a widow whose husband used to own a
helicopter and proceeded to build a helicopter to go with the blades! From
scratch (and the internet), using the engine from a boat outboard motor that
he converted (re-mapped the electronic ignition, fabricated expansion
chamber exhaust system getting an extra 30% power in the process....

Same guy built his own Class A power amps while in his early teens. He's
crazy skilled... and crazy as well. ;-)
--
Shaun.

"Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's
warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:31:45 -0700, AJL <129@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

>I was curious so I just took my old Palm battery apart. Sure enough
>there's a tiny board inside. Bet there's one in yours too...

The problem is that these batteries packs are "intelligent" and just exchanging
the charge accumulating part (the "real" battery") can be dangerous. The
manufacturers of the battery packs store production and parameter data in the
pcb part. If one uses wrong paramaters for charging the device, ist might lead
to flames. This is why I do not tough that.

--
**** WARNING **** The web-hoster Globat.com steals money from your
credit card account. If you are a customer of Globat.com, never give
them any credit card information. If you can't erase the information,
then do delete the old card and get a new one! **** WARNING ****

In news:8ljh8556rn31flri0lhlustirdbbhof4j3@4ax.com,
AJL typed on Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:31:45 -0700:
> AJL <129@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
>
>> AJL <129@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>>
>>>> Oh the Palm IIIc has to be disassembled, but it does has a plug on
>>>> the motherboard. The replacement battery didn't have a circuit
>>>> board attached to it from China which worries me a bit.
>>>
>>> Not to worry. All the Li-Ion battery circuitry is on the Palm board.
>>
>> I spoke to soon. Maybe you should worry. This says you should have
>> integrated circuitry on the battery.
>>
>> http://www.batteryship.com/htmlos/ht...30647619127009
>
> I was curious so I just took my old Palm battery apart. Sure enough
> there's a tiny board inside. Bet there's one in yours too...

My original Palm battery has a small circuit board with the battery.
Although the cheap replacement battery does not. So why I was a bit
concerned. Although it has been doing fine on the charger for the past 5
years. So nothing to worry about yet. <grin>

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) - Windows XP SP2

In news:7obh855vb2s56f8155c4tsld0pdf9fembd@4ax.com,
AJL typed on Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:28:29 -0700:
> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
> ... However if I try to use one that I haven't used in a while it is
> slow to load because it must be copied from flash memory to working
> memory before it can run. (And of course if the 10Meg is full it just
> kicks something else out.)

How long does this take?

>> And when it (those III models) power down, they keep the RAM alive.
>> Thus running in what I call standby mode.
>
> So I have 10 Meg instead of your 8 Meg in this "standby" mode. Perhaps
> part of the battery longevity thing.

You say if you haven't used it in awhile, it sounds like yours dumps the
volatile memory (RAM). What determines this? The battery level perhaps?

>> My Palm III both c and xe models does have either a ROM or flash
>> memory.
>
> You have flash ROM in both models. (Palm put out an upgrade kits for
> OS 3.2 and 3.5.) JackFlash or FlashPro were apps (hacks?) that could
> free up some of the ROM flash for the user. You got 800K in OS3.1 but
> only 300K in your OS 3.5 because the newer OS used more of the
> available flash.

Ah yes, it is coming back to me. <grin> And using PDA Check, my Palm
IIIxe reports the following:

ROM Size 1535KB
RAM Size 8192KB
Free Space 7850KB

PDA Check
http://www.howardlee.com/palm

I checked the Palm IIIc and it reports the same memory, except only half
of it is free. <grin>

>> So no, either it has to be synced or the battery must always keep the
>> RAM alive.
>
> I use RFBackup on my m125 (AAA with SD card capability). It saves the
> Palm memory to the SD card and then restores it exactly. Virtually all
> the m1xx models had a BAD defect. After a year or so the capacitor
> that kept the memory up while you changed batteries failed. So every
> time you changed the AAAs away went the memory. Course you could just
> re-sync but not everybody carried a computer with them. So I just use
> RFBackup.

Ah that is too bad. Has anybody ever changed that capacitor? Sounds like
those bad electrolytic capacitors from Taiwan. Which was a stolen
process from Japan. Although whoever sold them the directions, forgot
one step which caused the caps to go bad in about a year. I have an
Avatar motherboard with those bad caps on them. Which quickly turned
into an
$800 piece of junk. <sigh>

> I still use that m125 on camping trips. When I slow the processor down
> to 10MHz (from the normal 32MHz) I can get almost 40 hours of book
> reading on one set of batteries. 8-O I read a lot of books on those
> old green screens but only do it now days if I have to... ;)

I much prefer to use my Palm IIIc screen instead of those green screens
except the green screens are better than the IIIc in bright sunlight.
And that backlight for the green screen is just awful. Wouldn't you
agree? Even hard to use in complete darkness. Better than nothing
though.

>> The Palm IIIxe uses AAA batteries and has a battery cover.
>
> I also once had a IIIxe. I bought a rechargeable battery kit for it at
> my local Sears. It came with a NiCad battery box that fit in where the
> AAAs went. It came with a new battery door that contacted the battery
> box and had an outside jack for the charger. But since the IIIxe
> normally got around 20 hours on a set of AAAs this thing was more
> gadget than practical.
>
> BTW when that Sears store stopped selling Palms I found a brand new
> m125 on the clearance rack for $30. What a steal that was.

That was a deal! I use rechargeable AAA in my Palm IIIxe. I just fired
it up in years. Dropping batteries in it it wouldn't turn on. Only after
I used the reset did it come to life. Beamed a few things from my Palm
IIIc and that worked. Even the OS update worked by beaming. I can't use
the sync cradle yet though. It appears it needs an user name for this
device. And I forget how to do this.

Say, I don't know if you can use these, but they come in handy from time
to time for me. You have to add that Palm shortcut character first
before the dot. You can put them in anything you can insert text and
numbers, like MemoPad or something.

~~~~~~~~~~

Palm's DOT Shortcuts

..i - enables Beam receive for a short time. No longer do you need to
have Beam Receive turned on in Prefs/General!

..s - toggles between serial and IR modes. In serial mode, info sent via
the IR port is instead sent over the serial port.

..t - toggles loopback mode for the IR Exchange Manager.

..1 - some sort of "debug" mode, opens the serial port. SERIOUS drain of
the batteries if left open (soft reset to close)

..2 - opens the serial port (another debug mode). Soft reset to close.

..3 - Turn auto-off off

..4 - flashes user name and number - this number represents the number
used in the Windows registry Key for the desktop softare to set the
install flag, denoting whether there are impending files to be installed
(Thanks Erwin Schomburg)

..5 - removes user configuration and hotsync log CAUTION: If you re-sync
after doing this shortcut, you will create duplicate entries! Better to
hard-reset and PC to PalmPilot Sync instead.

..6 - displays the ROM date

..7 -- toggle between Alkaline/NiCad/Rechargeable Alkaline/NiMH. Meant
for those using alternative batteries, to show proper "fuel" gauge on
the app screen (NiMH setting only in OS 3.3)

..8 - toggles the "inverse" backlighting on the new Palm V or Palm IIIx.

~~~~~~~~~~

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) - Windows XP SP2

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

>My original Palm battery has a small circuit board with the battery.
>Although the cheap replacement battery does not.

Are you completely sure that the circuit board is not inside the
battery's plastic cover? I'll bet it is. All my Palm Li-Ion batteries
looked like they had no board and that's what I thought too (as I
first posted). But then I saw your IIIc battery ad that said
electronics were included. So I took apart my old Palm battery and
sure enough there was a circuit board inside.

>So why I was a bit concerned.

And you probably should be if there is no board. I've seen those
Li-Ion battery blow-up videos too. Although a Palm battery blow-up
might not be quite as spectacular, unless of course the Palm was in
your pocket when it went.. 8-O

>Although it has been doing fine on the charger for the past 5
>years. So nothing to worry about yet. <grin>

How's your fire insurance? ;)

In news:v8ll851t010ta3l2d84nu587p4b9qbmcm7@4ax.com,
AJL typed on Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:52:30 -0700:
> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>> My original Palm battery has a small circuit board with the battery.
>> Although the cheap replacement battery does not.
>
> Are you completely sure that the circuit board is not inside the
> battery's plastic cover? I'll bet it is. All my Palm Li-Ion batteries
> looked like they had no board and that's what I thought too (as I
> first posted). But then I saw your IIIc battery ad that said
> electronics were included. So I took apart my old Palm battery and
> sure enough there was a circuit board inside.

Well I don't see one at all (unlike the original). I'll dissect it once
the battery is dead.

>> So why I was a bit concerned.
>
> And you probably should be if there is no board. I've seen those
> Li-Ion battery blow-up videos too. Although a Palm battery blow-up
> might not be quite as spectacular, unless of course the Palm was in
> your pocket when it went.. 8-O

I am not looking forward to that day. 8-O

>> Although it has been doing fine on the charger for the past 5
>> years. So nothing to worry about yet. <grin>
>
> How's your fire insurance? ;)

Paid up. Although I better see and checkout the fine print and see if a
Palm blowing up is under those act of God clauses. ;)

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) - Windows XP SP2

In news:h6elj6$inb$1@news.eternal-september.org,
BillW50 typed on Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:41:09 -0500:
> I just fired it up in years. Dropping batteries in it it wouldn't turn
> on. Only after I used the reset did it come to life. Beamed a few
> things from my Palm IIIc and that worked. Even the OS update worked by
> beaming. I can't use the sync cradle yet though. It appears it needs
> an user name for this device. And I forget how to do this.

UPDATE: Well apparently I was doing everything right, it just won't work
from an USB to serial adapter so far. Funny the Palm IIIc works fine
from this adapter through the sync cradle.

I finally got the Palm IIIxe to sync from one of my old Toshiba 2595XDVD
with a real serial port with Windows 98SE. It also finally got an user
name as well. Those old Toshiba laptops also doesn't need a sync cradle
either. As they also have inferred that can sync with the Palms. But
they only work with Windows 98 as Windows 2000 changed the IR driver and
the Palms will no longer communicate with them. This is so weird, since
the Palm IIIc works just fine with the USB to serial adapter. <sigh>

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) - Windows XP SP2

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

>AJL typed on Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:28:29 -0700:
>> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

>> ... However if I try to use one that I haven't used in a while it is
>> slow to load because it must be copied from flash memory to working
>> memory before it can run. (And of course if the 10Meg is full it just
>> kicks something else out.)
>
>How long does this take?

Depends on the app. Blazer (the web browser) will sometimes will take
around 5 seconds to load. However if I reopen it again it's
instantaneous.

>You say if you haven't used it in awhile, it sounds like yours dumps the
>volatile memory (RAM). What determines this? The battery level perhaps?

My understanding is that the 10M stays full ('sleeping' when off) and
new stuff pushes out old stuff. I'm don't remember how it is saved on
a dead battery. There were some very good technical sites at the time
on how this all worked but of course I can't find them now. I'll keep
looking.

>>Virtually all
>> the m1xx models had a BAD defect. After a year or so the capacitor
>> that kept the memory up while you changed batteries failed. So every
>> time you changed the AAAs away went the memory.
>
>Ah that is too bad. Has anybody ever changed that capacitor?

Yes, there were several sites with instructions including photos, on
how to change the caps. I never changed one. There was even a class
action suit against Palm. The defect wasn't data fatal since if you
synced before and after the battery change all was well. But still it
was annoying...

>I much prefer to use my Palm IIIc screen instead of those green screens

Yes, even B&W text looks better on a color screen.

>except the green screens are better than the IIIc in bright sunlight.

My green screens faded out in direct sunlight after awhile. I'm not
sure if it is the heat or the ultraviolet light but they lose contrast
and become difficult to read. Once in the shade they recover. The
newer transreflective color screens don't do this.

>And that backlight for the green screen is just awful. Wouldn't you
>agree? Even hard to use in complete darkness. Better than nothing
>though.

"Better than nothing" pretty well says it all... ;) I had to
install hacks on my current transreflective color screens (TX TE Z72
and TE2) because the bottom brightness stop was about 25% which is way
too bright to read in the dark. The hacks allow the screens to dim all
the way down to 0% (off). When I'm in direct sunlight for any length
of time (poolside/seaside) I can turn the backlight off to save some
battery.

>It [IIIxe] appears it needs an user name for this
>device. And I forget how to do this.

Fire up the Palm Desktop and sync it. The Desktop will ask you if this
is a new unit. Say yes and it will let you name it.

>Palm's DOT Shortcuts

Yes I remember these though I never used them. Like Windows shortcuts
I usually can never remember them when I need them... ;)

Do you remember the Easter Eggs...

http://www.dgotech.com/morepalm/easteregg.html