"~misfit~" wrote:

>all my recent cell phones have been Li-Ion and completely discharged each
>time and I've never had to replace a battery before the phone.

I bought a Palm TungstenE PDA in October of 2003. I used it for about
a year before I replaced it and it has been sitting in a drawer
uncharged and dead for almost 5 years. As an experiment for this
thread I dug it out and charged it. It charged up just fine. Then I
disabled the timer and let it discharge while on a book reader screen.
It shutdown in about 3.5 hours, virtually the same time I was getting
when it was new. So at least this Li-Ion battery is tougher than some
articles would lead you to believe. YMMV of course...

I can pretty much guarantee you that had that unit been plugged in for
those 5 years instead of sitting in a drawer, the battery would have
been shot. Which is the whole point of this discussion.

AJL wrote:
> "~misfit~" wrote:
>
>> all my recent cell phones have been Li-Ion and completely discharged each
>> time and I've never had to replace a battery before the phone.
>
> I bought a Palm TungstenE PDA in October of 2003. I used it for about
> a year before I replaced it and it has been sitting in a drawer
> uncharged and dead for almost 5 years. As an experiment for this
> thread I dug it out and charged it. It charged up just fine. Then I
> disabled the timer and let it discharge while on a book reader screen.
> It shutdown in about 3.5 hours, virtually the same time I was getting
> when it was new. So at least this Li-Ion battery is tougher than some
> articles would lead you to believe. YMMV of course...

Barry Watzman wrote:

>AJL wrote:

>> I bought a Palm TungstenE PDA in October of 2003. I used it for about
>> a year before I replaced it and it has been sitting in a drawer
>> uncharged and dead for almost 5 years. As an experiment for this
>> thread I dug it out and charged it. It charged up just fine. Then I
>> disabled the timer and let it discharge while on a book reader screen.
>> It shutdown in about 3.5 hours, virtually the same time I was getting
>> when it was new. So at least this Li-Ion battery is tougher than some
>> articles would lead you to believe. YMMV of course...

>I can pretty much guarantee you that had that unit been plugged in for
>those 5 years instead of sitting in a drawer, the battery would have
>been shot.

Maybe, but that would prove nothing. Laptops generate substantial heat
that may damage the battery, Palms don't. Laptops can remove the
battery, Palms can't. Laptops may or may not be designed to be left on
the charger when finished charging, Palms are so designed (the
cradle). A laptop could conceivably be left plugged in for 5 years as
a desktop replacement, whereas a Palm would never be used that way.
IOW apples and oranges. No *laptop battery* conclusions could be
determined from this Palm battery experiment.

>Which is the whole point of this discussion.

So this proves nothing on the point of this discussion. I only offered
the post as an interesting (IMO) side point on the dangers (or
non-dangers) of deep discharging Li-Ion batteries since the thread had
deviated a little in that direction... ;)

AJL wrote:
> Barry Watzman wrote:
>
>> AJL wrote:
>
>>> I bought a Palm TungstenE PDA in October of 2003. I used it for about
>>> a year before I replaced it and it has been sitting in a drawer
>>> uncharged and dead for almost 5 years. As an experiment for this
>>> thread I dug it out and charged it. It charged up just fine. Then I
>>> disabled the timer and let it discharge while on a book reader screen.
>>> It shutdown in about 3.5 hours, virtually the same time I was getting
>>> when it was new. So at least this Li-Ion battery is tougher than some
>>> articles would lead you to believe. YMMV of course...
>
>> I can pretty much guarantee you that had that unit been plugged in for
>> those 5 years instead of sitting in a drawer, the battery would have
>> been shot.
>
> Maybe, but that would prove nothing. Laptops generate substantial heat
> that may damage the battery, Palms don't. Laptops can remove the
> battery, Palms can't. Laptops may or may not be designed to be left on
> the charger when finished charging, Palms are so designed (the
> cradle). A laptop could conceivably be left plugged in for 5 years as
> a desktop replacement, whereas a Palm would never be used that way.
> IOW apples and oranges. No *laptop battery* conclusions could be
> determined from this Palm battery experiment.
>
>> Which is the whole point of this discussion.
>
> So this proves nothing on the point of this discussion. I only offered
> the post as an interesting (IMO) side point on the dangers (or
> non-dangers) of deep discharging Li-Ion batteries since the thread had
> deviated a little in that direction... ;)

Well, all this is very interesting but I remain challenged by the
following case:

I own a Twinhead A9110 bought new back in 2000 whose battery is common
to a Compaq model the name of which I forgot. Here is one example of
site that sells it:
> http://www.apexbattery.com/twinhead-...ry-b-5729.html
Even back when I bought the machine, in the machine or out of it, the
battery would discharge fully in about 2 weeks.

I recently decided to gave a new life to this machine and bought a brand
new battery, although I knew its costs was out of proportion with the
practical value of the machine. Same thing, the battery shows the same
behavior. In other words, if I go away from home (without this
sentimental brick!) for more than 2 weeks, the battery is almost empty,
whether I leave it in or out of the machine.

For fear I being unable to charge it again, I leave the machine on
stand-by when I am away for an extended period of time.

Obviously, the machine has nothing to do with the problem. Is there a
way I can put my hands on a compatible battery which would not have this
discharge problem? Anything I can do about this?

I have at least 3 batteries which I had kept in cool storage which are
now useless because I cannot recharge them. A shame!

--
John Doue

In news:W0Ohm.12$Kn3.9@read4.inet.fi,
John Doue typed on Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:52:38 GMT:
> Well, all this is very interesting but I remain challenged by the
> following case:
>
> I own a Twinhead A9110 bought new back in 2000 whose battery is common
> to a Compaq model the name of which I forgot. Here is one example of
> site that sells it:
>> http://www.apexbattery.com/twinhead-...ry-b-5729.html
> Even back when I bought the machine, in the machine or out of it, the
> battery would discharge fully in about 2 weeks.
>
> I recently decided to gave a new life to this machine and bought a
> brand new battery, although I knew its costs was out of proportion
> with the practical value of the machine. Same thing, the battery
> shows the same behavior. In other words, if I go away from home
> (without this sentimental brick!) for more than 2 weeks, the battery
> is almost empty, whether I leave it in or out of the machine.
>
> For fear I being unable to charge it again, I leave the machine on
> stand-by when I am away for an extended period of time.
>
> Obviously, the machine has nothing to do with the problem. Is there a
> way I can put my hands on a compatible battery which would not have
> this discharge problem? Anything I can do about this?
>
> I have at least 3 batteries which I had kept in cool storage which are
> now useless because I cannot recharge them. A shame!
>
> --
> John Doue

Say John, that battery looks very much like the old Toshiba batteries.
They don't have that problem such as yours by the way. Does your
batteries also have two connections not shown in the picture on the
underneath side? The Toshiba batteries does.

By the way, something doesn't sound right to me. If the battery goes
dead in a two week time, how could they store them for any length of
time? Maybe the internal safety circuits drain the battery down to a
point and then stops draining. Which wouldn't sound to be a very good
design to me. The only other thing that makes sense to me is that old
lithium batteries can act that way. Although here is a thought, what
about those outfits that rebuild old laptop batteries? Maybe that would
be worth a shot?

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) - Windows XP SP2

In news:cr2f85d1te0mfijqfdtfl0nglvdl0qk7iv@4ax.com,
AJL typed on Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:28:26 -0700:
> Barry Watzman wrote:
>
>> AJL wrote:
>
>>> I bought a Palm TungstenE PDA in October of 2003. I used it for
>>> about a year before I replaced it and it has been sitting in a
>>> drawer uncharged and dead for almost 5 years. As an experiment for
>>> this thread I dug it out and charged it. It charged up just fine.
>>> Then I disabled the timer and let it discharge while on a book
>>> reader screen. It shutdown in about 3.5 hours, virtually the same
>>> time I was getting when it was new. So at least this Li-Ion battery
>>> is tougher than some articles would lead you to believe. YMMV of
>>> course...
>
>> I can pretty much guarantee you that had that unit been plugged in
>> for those 5 years instead of sitting in a drawer, the battery would
>> have been shot.
>
> Maybe, but that would prove nothing.

Actually it does prove something. And no, Barry is mistaken. My Palm
IIIc has been plugged in for the past 5 years. I just don't use it like
I did for the first 5 years. It's 10 years old now with a 5 year old
battery.

> Laptops generate substantial heat that may damage the battery, Palms
> don't. Laptops can remove the battery, Palms can't. Laptops may or may
> not be designed to be left on the charger when finished charging,
> Palms are so designed (the cradle). A laptop could conceivably be left
> plugged in for 5 years as a desktop replacement, whereas a Palm would
> never be used that way. IOW apples and oranges. No *laptop battery*
> conclusions could be determined from this Palm battery experiment.

I disagree, it tells us a lot. <grin>

>> Which is the whole point of this discussion.
>
> So this proves nothing on the point of this discussion. I only offered
> the post as an interesting (IMO) side point on the dangers (or
> non-dangers) of deep discharging Li-Ion batteries since the thread had
> deviated a little in that direction... ;)

I have been saying for years that it is the heat and the overcharging
that kills the batteries. And our Palms help prove that point. As they
run ice cold for starters. And it only charges them up to 4.10v per cell
and not 4.2v per cell like most laptop designs tend to be. And mine
lives on the charger, since I rarely use it anymore. The charge light
only comes on in the middle of every night around 2AM and charges it up
to 4.10v and then stops and repeats the next night.

And it has done this for the past 5 years on this battery which was new
when I installed it. I guess I should actually try to see if I can still
get 12 hours of running time off of it, eh? And I know what happens when
the battery is actually too far gone. As it happened 5 years ago. As the
charge light would be on 24/7. Yet it never gets to 4.10v. Once this
happens, it is shot.

These Palm IIIc doesn't power off once you turn them on. So I can't
throw it in a drawer like you can. As turning them off keeps the RAM
alive and the battery only lasts 2 weeks in this standby condition.
Although they come with the battery installed and no battery drain out
of the box. I wonder how they do that? Disconnect the battery for awhile
and reconnect them?

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) - Windows XP SP2

Something is very wrong. No battery should self-discharge that quickly
.... especially a Lithium battery (lithium batteries are unusually
stable). I think you have two bad batteries, or the design is poor
(lithium batteries have a microprocessor inside the battery, but it
should draw microamps, no more, and should not discharge the battery to
the point of damage).


John Doue wrote:
>
> Well, all this is very interesting but I remain challenged by the
> following case:
>
> I own a Twinhead A9110 bought new back in 2000 whose battery is common
> to a Compaq model the name of which I forgot. Here is one example of
> site that sells it:
>> http://www.apexbattery.com/twinhead-...ry-b-5729.html
> Even back when I bought the machine, in the machine or out of it, the
> battery would discharge fully in about 2 weeks.
>
> I recently decided to gave a new life to this machine and bought a brand
> new battery, although I knew its costs was out of proportion with the
> practical value of the machine. Same thing, the battery shows the same
> behavior. In other words, if I go away from home (without this
> sentimental brick!) for more than 2 weeks, the battery is almost empty,
> whether I leave it in or out of the machine.
>
> For fear I being unable to charge it again, I leave the machine on
> stand-by when I am away for an extended period of time.
>
> Obviously, the machine has nothing to do with the problem. Is there a
> way I can put my hands on a compatible battery which would not have this
> discharge problem? Anything I can do about this?
>
> I have at least 3 batteries which I had kept in cool storage which are
> now useless because I cannot recharge them. A shame!
>

BillW50 wrote:
> In news:W0Ohm.12$Kn3.9@read4.inet.fi,
> John Doue typed on Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:52:38 GMT:
>> Well, all this is very interesting but I remain challenged by the
>> following case:
>>
>> I own a Twinhead A9110 bought new back in 2000 whose battery is common
>> to a Compaq model the name of which I forgot. Here is one example of
>> site that sells it:
>>> http://www.apexbattery.com/twinhead-...ry-b-5729.html
>> Even back when I bought the machine, in the machine or out of it, the
>> battery would discharge fully in about 2 weeks.
>>
>> I recently decided to gave a new life to this machine and bought a
>> brand new battery, although I knew its costs was out of proportion
>> with the practical value of the machine. Same thing, the battery
>> shows the same behavior. In other words, if I go away from home
>> (without this sentimental brick!) for more than 2 weeks, the battery
>> is almost empty, whether I leave it in or out of the machine.
>>
>> For fear I being unable to charge it again, I leave the machine on
>> stand-by when I am away for an extended period of time.
>>
>> Obviously, the machine has nothing to do with the problem. Is there a
>> way I can put my hands on a compatible battery which would not have
>> this discharge problem? Anything I can do about this?
>>
>> I have at least 3 batteries which I had kept in cool storage which are
>> now useless because I cannot recharge them. A shame!
>>
>> --
>> John Doue
>
> Say John, that battery looks very much like the old Toshiba batteries.
> They don't have that problem such as yours by the way. Does your
> batteries also have two connections not shown in the picture on the
> underneath side? The Toshiba batteries does.
>
> By the way, something doesn't sound right to me. If the battery goes
> dead in a two week time, how could they store them for any length of
> time? Maybe the internal safety circuits drain the battery down to a
> point and then stops draining. Which wouldn't sound to be a very good
> design to me. The only other thing that makes sense to me is that old
> lithium batteries can act that way. Although here is a thought, what
> about those outfits that rebuild old laptop batteries? Maybe that would
> be worth a shot?
>

Bill, no they don't have connectors underneath, just (!) six on the side
(and not five as you might see on some sites). I have also been
wondering about storage ... but if this had happened to me only once, I
would have thought, this was just a freak thing. But it happened on all
batteries. Now, given the fact I keep this machine for emergencies only,
I won't spend any more money on batteries and if need be, run it on a
UPS ; could get get two for the price of one battery. Nonsense.

I have never tried those outfits which rebuild old batteries, and now, I
think it is too late in the game to invest anymore money here. But I am
still curious to know if one of those dead batteries I still have could
be revived without having to call 911 ... At least one of them has not
been used more than once or twice.

--
John Doue

Barry Watzman wrote:
> Something is very wrong. No battery should self-discharge that quickly
> ... especially a Lithium battery (lithium batteries are unusually
> stable). I think you have two bad batteries, or the design is poor
> (lithium batteries have a microprocessor inside the battery, but it
> should draw microamps, no more, and should not discharge the battery to
> the point of damage).
>
>
> John Doue wrote:
>>
>> Well, all this is very interesting but I remain challenged by the
>> following case:
>>
>> I own a Twinhead A9110 bought new back in 2000 whose battery is common
>> to a Compaq model the name of which I forgot. Here is one example of
>> site that sells it:
>>> http://www.apexbattery.com/twinhead-...ry-b-5729.html
>> Even back when I bought the machine, in the machine or out of it, the
>> battery would discharge fully in about 2 weeks.
>>
>> I recently decided to gave a new life to this machine and bought a
>> brand new battery, although I knew its costs was out of proportion
>> with the practical value of the machine. Same thing, the battery shows
>> the same behavior. In other words, if I go away from home (without
>> this sentimental brick!) for more than 2 weeks, the battery is almost
>> empty, whether I leave it in or out of the machine.
>>
>> For fear I being unable to charge it again, I leave the machine on
>> stand-by when I am away for an extended period of time.
>>
>> Obviously, the machine has nothing to do with the problem. Is there a
>> way I can put my hands on a compatible battery which would not have
>> this discharge problem? Anything I can do about this?
>>
>> I have at least 3 batteries which I had kept in cool storage which are
>> now useless because I cannot recharge them. A shame!
>>

Barry, I am not talking one or two batteries: over the life of the
machine (9 years now), I bought at least 5 batteries, since I had a need
for this laptop, and it was meeting my needs fairly well at the time.

I still have at least 3 of them, one or two of them being almost unused,
but I cannot recharge them. I apparently kept too long in storage, not
realizing I would run into this problem, and unable to recharge them,
since my wife was becoming my ex-wife and she was hanging on to the
machine ...

--
John Doue

In news:L%Whm.115$Kn3.69@read4.inet.fi,
John Doue typed on Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:05:47 GMT:
> Barry Watzman wrote:
>> Something is very wrong. No battery should self-discharge that
>> quickly ... especially a Lithium battery (lithium batteries are
>> unusually stable). I think you have two bad batteries, or the
>> design is poor (lithium batteries have a microprocessor inside the
>> battery, but it should draw microamps, no more, and should not
>> discharge the battery to the point of damage).
>>
>>
>> John Doue wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, all this is very interesting but I remain challenged by the
>>> following case:
>>>
>>> I own a Twinhead A9110 bought new back in 2000 whose battery is
>>> common to a Compaq model the name of which I forgot. Here is one
>>> example of site that sells it:
>>>> http://www.apexbattery.com/twinhead-...ry-b-5729.html
>>> Even back when I bought the machine, in the machine or out of it,
>>> the battery would discharge fully in about 2 weeks.
>>>
>>> I recently decided to gave a new life to this machine and bought a
>>> brand new battery, although I knew its costs was out of proportion
>>> with the practical value of the machine. Same thing, the battery
>>> shows the same behavior. In other words, if I go away from home
>>> (without this sentimental brick!) for more than 2 weeks, the
>>> battery is almost empty, whether I leave it in or out of the
>>> machine. For fear I being unable to charge it again, I leave the
>>> machine on
>>> stand-by when I am away for an extended period of time.
>>>
>>> Obviously, the machine has nothing to do with the problem. Is there
>>> a way I can put my hands on a compatible battery which would not
>>> have this discharge problem? Anything I can do about this?
>>>
>>> I have at least 3 batteries which I had kept in cool storage which
>>> are now useless because I cannot recharge them. A shame!
>>>
>
> Barry, I am not talking one or two batteries: over the life of the
> machine (9 years now), I bought at least 5 batteries, since I had a
> need for this laptop, and it was meeting my needs fairly well at the
> time.
> I still have at least 3 of them, one or two of them being almost
> unused, but I cannot recharge them. I apparently kept too long in
> storage, not realizing I would run into this problem, and unable to
> recharge them, since my wife was becoming my ex-wife and she was
> hanging on to the machine ...
>
> --
> John Doue

Hi John! Well I am sticking to the story they act like old batteries.
And what makes sense to me while you bought them as new, you have no
idea how long ago they were manufactured. As they could have been
sitting on the shelf for years. As they sure act like they were.

Those old Toshiba batteries look just like yours. As those lithium types
has 10 contacts (plus two on the bottom side) while Toshiba Ni-MH
batteries has 5 contacts, like yours (plus two on the bottom side). For
a brief time, Toshiba did have 5 contact lithiums. Those two odd
contacts on the other side of Toshibas only get shorted when inserted
into a charger or a laptop. And one of them is the plus side of the
battery and when shorted, brings the positive point of the battery to
the plus side of the other main roll of contacts.

I have been searching on the Internet for your battery and there are no
deals. They want $102 and up for them. But virtually all of them come
with a one year warrantee, so if it dies within a year you can get free
batteries for a year at least. Well that is how I read it anyway, they
might feel differently.

Those places that rebuilds has an advantage that you get fresh lithium
cells. That is why I mentioned it. Plus they are much cheaper than 100
bucks plus.

Although this soon to be ex thing changes things. I don't know about the
ex part, but maybe she having it might be the best thing that ever
happened between you and that laptop. <grin>

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) - Windows XP SP2

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

>These Palm IIIc doesn't power off once you turn them on. So I can't
>throw it in a drawer like you can.

Not sure what you mean here. The IIIc has auto off as do all Palms.
You can only get 3 minutes max. But get a free app called AlwaysOn.prc
and you can set it up to an hour or to stay 'always on'.

>Although they come with the battery installed and no battery drain out
>of the box. I wonder how they do that?

Mine have been extremely low out of the box, some would boot before
charging, some wouldn't. Course the AAA models worked right off... ;)

>Disconnect the battery for awhile and reconnect them?

The TX battery is soldered in so probably not. Perhaps everything is
shut down (except the on button) prior to booting the OS from ROM?

Someone call the news networks! Notify the White House! Call out the
National Guard!

I actually agree with Bill on this one.

BillW50 wrote:
>
> Hi John! Well I am sticking to the story they act like old batteries.
> And what makes sense to me while you bought them as new, you have no
> idea how long ago they were manufactured. As they could have been
> sitting on the shelf for years. As they sure act like they were.
>

Somewhere on teh intarwebs John Doue wrote:
> BillW50 wrote:
>> In news:W0Ohm.12$Kn3.9@read4.inet.fi,
>> John Doue typed on Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:52:38 GMT:
>>> Well, all this is very interesting but I remain challenged by the
>>> following case:
>>>
>>> I own a Twinhead A9110 bought new back in 2000 whose battery is
>>> common to a Compaq model the name of which I forgot. Here is one
>>> example of site that sells it:
>>>> http://www.apexbattery.com/twinhead-...ry-b-5729.html
>>> Even back when I bought the machine, in the machine or out of it,
>>> the battery would discharge fully in about 2 weeks.
>>>
>>> I recently decided to gave a new life to this machine and bought a
>>> brand new battery, although I knew its costs was out of proportion
>>> with the practical value of the machine. Same thing, the battery
>>> shows the same behavior. In other words, if I go away from home
>>> (without this sentimental brick!) for more than 2 weeks, the battery
>>> is almost empty, whether I leave it in or out of the machine.
>>>
>>> For fear I being unable to charge it again, I leave the machine on
>>> stand-by when I am away for an extended period of time.
>>>
>>> Obviously, the machine has nothing to do with the problem. Is there
>>> a way I can put my hands on a compatible battery which would not
>>> have this discharge problem? Anything I can do about this?
>>>
>>> I have at least 3 batteries which I had kept in cool storage which
>>> are now useless because I cannot recharge them. A shame!
>>>
>>> --
>>> John Doue
>>
>> Say John, that battery looks very much like the old Toshiba
>> batteries. They don't have that problem such as yours by the way.
>> Does your batteries also have two connections not shown in the
>> picture on the underneath side? The Toshiba batteries does.
>>
>> By the way, something doesn't sound right to me. If the battery goes
>> dead in a two week time, how could they store them for any length of
>> time? Maybe the internal safety circuits drain the battery down to a
>> point and then stops draining. Which wouldn't sound to be a very good
>> design to me. The only other thing that makes sense to me is that old
>> lithium batteries can act that way. Although here is a thought, what
>> about those outfits that rebuild old laptop batteries? Maybe that
>> would be worth a shot?
>>
>
> Bill, no they don't have connectors underneath, just (!) six on the
> side (and not five as you might see on some sites). I have also been
> wondering about storage ... but if this had happened to me only once,
> I would have thought, this was just a freak thing. But it happened on
> all batteries. Now, given the fact I keep this machine for
> emergencies only, I won't spend any more money on batteries and if
> need be, run it on a UPS ; could get get two for the price of one
> battery. Nonsense.
> I have never tried those outfits which rebuild old batteries, and
> now, I think it is too late in the game to invest anymore money here.
> But I am still curious to know if one of those dead batteries I still
> have could be revived without having to call 911 ... At least one of
> them has not been used more than once or twice.

Are you a bit "handy"? I have a mate who has rebuilt a few of his own
battery packs with Li-Ion cells sourced remarkably cheaply (by the box of
about 25 cells) from New Zealand's version of eBay, Trademe.co.nz. He said
that there's one guy who sells some now and then. As you have the dead
batteries (cases/circuitry) perhaps it's something you might like to try?

Cheers,
--
Shaun.

"Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's
warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.

In news:46kg85ptupm0k62ak3hncq1878hkbm67o2@4ax.com,
AJL typed on Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:15:10 -0700:
> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>> These Palm IIIc doesn't power off once you turn them on. So I can't
>> throw it in a drawer like you can.
>
> Not sure what you mean here. The IIIc has auto off as do all Palms.
> You can only get 3 minutes max. But get a free app called AlwaysOn.prc
> and you can set it up to an hour or to stay 'always on'.

Remember you said that the Palm IIIc (so does my Palm IIIxe) uses RAM
instead of flash memory? So if the battery dies, you lose everything as
long as it isn't backed up (aka synced). And when it (those III models)
power down, they keep the RAM alive. Thus running in what I call standby
mode.

My Palm III both c and xe models does have either a ROM or flash memory.
Although they are only used if the RAM is blank. And I believe it is
used to copy the OS to the RAM and that is only if the RAM is blank. So
it takes you to day one, no data and the earliest Palm OS version. Which
I believe both has Palm v3.50 from the get go.

I like to think of this permanent storage as ROM. As I never heard of a
way to reprogram them. If they are flash, I never heard of a way to
upgrade the OS in this state, nor store anything on it. As it has to be
done in RAM.

So no, either it has to be synced or the battery must always keep the
RAM alive. Or you lose everything and come back to the very day you
first turned on the Palm IIIc (or xe). The Palm IIIxe uses AAA batteries
and has a battery cover. The Palm IIIc doesn't and has a built in
lithium.

>> Although they come with the battery installed and no battery drain
>> out of the box. I wonder how they do that?
>
> Mine have been extremely low out of the box, some would boot before
> charging, some wouldn't. Course the AAA models worked right off... ;)
>
>> Disconnect the battery for awhile and reconnect them?
>
> The TX battery is soldered in so probably not. Perhaps everything is
> shut down (except the on button) prior to booting the OS from ROM?

Oh the Palm IIIc has to be disassembled, but it does has a plug on the
motherboard. The replacement battery didn't have a circuit board
attached to it from China which worries me a bit. I am assuming that
much of the safety protection just isn't there. Although as long as it
holds 4.10v I am not too worried about it though. <grin>

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) - Windows XP SP2

In news:h6a3bq$igt$2@news.eternal-september.org,
Barry Watzman typed on Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:05:24 -0400:
> Someone call the news networks! Notify the White House! Call out the
> National Guard!
>
> I actually agree with Bill on this one.
>
> BillW50 wrote:
>>
>> Hi John! Well I am sticking to the story they act like old batteries.
>> And what makes sense to me while you bought them as new, you have no
>> idea how long ago they were manufactured. As they could have been
>> sitting on the shelf for years. As they sure act like they were.

Just in case I have never said this before... but Barry is indeed a very
smart guy. So nobody should ever automatically discount what he says. I
would definitely grade Barry in the 90's for sure. So Barry is
definitely no light weight by any means. We just differ on some of the
more finer points from time to time. Although this isn't one of them.
<grin>

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) - Windows XP SP2