Dear all,

I'm about to buy a new laptop.
But everything in these days - at least as far
as I know - comes with Windows Vista.

My plan is to buy such a laptop and then downgrade
to Windows XP. Does this mean I need to purchase
license for Windows XP?

Also, does anyone where I can buy a new laptop
without any operating system installed?
I reckon those laptops are cheaper?!

By the way, I'm living in the UK.

Thank you,
Felix

Felix Lessing wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I'm about to buy a new laptop.
> But everything in these days - at least as far
> as I know - comes with Windows Vista.
>
> My plan is to buy such a laptop and then downgrade
> to Windows XP. Does this mean I need to purchase
> license for Windows XP?
>
> Also, does anyone where I can buy a new laptop
> without any operating system installed?
> I reckon those laptops are cheaper?!
>
> By the way, I'm living in the UK.
>
> Thank you,
> Felix
Try the Dell Small Business site. They offer XP.

Felix Lessing <felix.lessing@googlemail.com> wrote in news:1d22a463-
4885-47c0-bb50-23fc26d1369e@s31g2000...oglegroups.com:

> I'm about to buy a new laptop.
> But everything in these days - at least as far
> as I know - comes with Windows Vista.
>

Can you think of good reasons why a 10" bright screen and 1.6Ghz Atom
processor with 1 or 2 GB of RAM and a 160GB hard drive WOULDN'T be a
great laptop for you.....especially when it runs from 5-10 HOURS on a
charge, instead of the superlaptops 45 minutes to an hour?

Don't mention internet because anything you connect a laptop to on the
internet is as slow as paint drying. Internet is a thousand times
slower than a WinXP netbook.

Now, can you justify paying 2-4 times as much for the superlaptop than,
say, $379 for the BEST netbook, the Samsung NC10 with its totally NON-
REFLECTIVE screen you can easily see the picture on, even outdoors in
the sunshine? Don't buy ANY Glossy portable anything UNTIL you've
carried it outside and looked at the picture for 10 minutes in the
sunshine. I'm sure you'll easily see my repugnance of the stupid glossy
mirrored screens and glossy plastic borders they put on them to impress
the girlies. How awful!

The NC10 easily is fast enough to play any media videos, office
processing, moderate games to occupy your travel time.....

Then, what good is a dual 3.2Ghz Xeon laptop with 6 RAID drives and 8GB
of RAM if you have to either drag around a fork lift battery or run from
AC outlet to outlet to run it over an hour? If it won't run all
day...it's useless!

Nope...There's a REASON XP-powered Netbooks sell like hotcakes, the most
popular computers on Amazon.com.....
Price
Fast enough speed
Big hard drives
LONG runtimes on a single charge
Non-glare, Non-reflective screen

Oh, and the NC10's little finger pad is a multi-touch with a scrollbar!
Run your finger down the scrollbar then out into the main pad area and
it's just like having a mouse wheel to scroll up and down the whole
page, no matter how long it is or how many pages a document gets...very
nice.

$379....in the less-popular blue case...Amazon.com this week....Free
USPS shipping, too!

I just went from the 6-cell extended battery (about 8 hours) on mine to
the 9-cell 7.2AH beast that runs it 12 hours straight! You don't even
have to fight the screen dimmer! $75 with shipping from buy.com.

It still weighs under 3 pounds...about what the superlaptop's battery
weighs...lugging it around.

PS - Mine dual boots to WinXP SP3 or Ubuntu Linux 9.04. It still runs
the old XP progs I've carried for years....while running the Linux toys
on the "Cube" to impress the kids...(c;]

Want a touchscreen? The Taiwanese have a nice touchscreen for it for
$98, no soldering, self-installed. It steals USB from the 1.6MP camera
port on the main board. You simply plug it in. The touchscreen
interface board even ads 2 more USB ports, as if 3 on the NC10 weren't
enough....

My Nokia N800 Linux tablets spoiled me for touchscreen. Both WinXP and
Ubuntu run great with the included drivers.



--
Larry

Noone will ever be safe or free until the last lawyer has been strangled
by the entrails of the last cleric.

Felix Lessing (felix.lessing@googlemail.com) wrote:
(Snip)

> ...does anyone where I can buy a new laptop
> without any operating system installed?
> I reckon those laptops are cheaper?!

*** Don't count on it. Here in Canada, laptop models that come
with Vista have that cost built in. Having the store remove it will
sometimes cost you more for the service and they won't refund you the
Vista cost. )-:


> By the way, I'm living in the UK.
>
> Felix

*** Call around to your local stores to see if there is a model that
comes without an operating system that will do what you want, at a price
that suits your budget.

You might also consider a used laptop. An older laptop with DOS or
Linux will not demand the resources that Windows does and may be able to
handle your needs.

Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

In message
<1d22a463-4885-47c0-bb50-23fc26d1369e@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>,
Felix Lessing <felix.lessing@googlemail.com> writes
>I'm about to buy a new laptop.
>But everything in these days - at least as far as I know - comes with
>Windows Vista.
>
>My plan is to buy such a laptop and then downgrade to Windows XP. Does
>this mean I need to purchase license for Windows XP?

I'm in the UK. I bought a Lenovo with Vista Business some time back, and
was supplied with the XP install disks.
I backed up the Vista Business with the Microsoft in-built backup
program, which backs up the whole machine unlike the toy program in
Vista Home Premium and lower versions. Bought a new HD, put it in,
checked that I could recover Vista Business to it, then wiped that and
installed XP.

I didn't need a licence and the machine has now passed several
Authenticity checks.

Buy one of these now and it appears you will get XP, Vista Business and
a copy of Windows 7 when that appears. And the machine comes with all
the drivers for the various OS's, so much less scrabbling around. If you
follow the same scheme, buy as big a HD as poss for XP. 120GB was big
when I bought this, now it's critically low on space

I bought from Dabs, but lots of proper suppliers like Insight etc have
this type of machine on their lists.

FWIW, although I've popped Vista back in from time to time for some
tests, I find I still have to use XP for most serious work (plus Ubuntu
on the netbook). I've only tried Win7 on an old desktop, but not seen
anything on it to make me want to change.
--
Bill

I've done this many times, sometimes I have offered the "solution" on E-Bay.

This is a good time to buy a Vista computer because you will get a free
copy of Windows 7. So you will have two OS'.

But, as for XP:

Item zero: Before giving up on Vista, configure it for "Classic
Folders", "Classic Control Panel" and "Classic Start menu". Then there
are about two dozen settings in about 10 different places, that make
other things more "classic like". And when you are done, Vista looks
like XP (or even like 98). But it's still Vista (even still with Aero,
if that's what you want). It becomes MUCH more user friendly. Maybe
that is all you need.

Item zero-point-five: Most USERS can't put XP on a Vista laptop and get
it right. The level of effort required is beyond the ability and
knowledge level of most users. I have no idea how "technical" you are.

But, if you are going to put XP on the Vista computer: First, yes, you
need a copy of XP. Ideally a full version, legal generic copy.

Second, it's best do do your experimentation on a spare hard drive.
Hard drives are cheap. There may be a lot of trial and error, you may
have to wipe and start over many times (do NOT "activate" XP while you
are "playing" and "testing"). Your "real" hard drive is no place to be
doing this.

Third, you need to locate XP drivers for every component of your laptop.
This is a big deal and can take tens of hours; it is also possible
that some of the drivers may not exist, at all, period (depending on
what driver is missing, this may or may not be fatal; but for XP,
generally, the drivers DO exist, SOMEWHERE). Ideally, the laptop mfgrs.
web site has the XP drivers, and sometimes they do, but often they
don't. This is a tough step if critical drivers are not available from
the laptop mfgrs. website. It can be very difficult and it can take a
LOT of time, and in the end, for most laptops you will need 10 to 20
drivers.

Finally, you need to figure out the proper install sequence so that,
when you are done, everything works.

A problem that stops many people dead in their tracks right at the
beginning is that the XP setup program does not support SATA hard
drives. SOME laptops "emulate" IDE drives from SATA drives in the BIOS
(either unconditionally or as an option), but in other cases, you need
what is called an "F6 Driver" (see wikipedia). If you don't know what
an F6 driver is, then you probably don't have the knowledge and ability
necessary to do this yourself (although not all laptops require an F6
driver, not knowing what that is suggests someone whose knowledge of
operating systems probably isn't as great as this type of task is likely
to require).


Felix Lessing wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I'm about to buy a new laptop.
> But everything in these days - at least as far
> as I know - comes with Windows Vista.
>
> My plan is to buy such a laptop and then downgrade
> to Windows XP. Does this mean I need to purchase
> license for Windows XP?
>
> Also, does anyone where I can buy a new laptop
> without any operating system installed?
> I reckon those laptops are cheaper?!
>
> By the way, I'm living in the UK.
>
> Thank you,
> Felix

Netbooks are not general purpose Laptops/Notebooks. They are netbooks.
They are fine dfr some [ok, many] things, they are horrible for lots
of other things. IN GENERAL, they are not good choices as a main,
primary computer. They have NO optical drive, in most cases, their
processors are weak, their memory is usually limited (granted, to a
level that is enough for some people) and their screens are small (in
both physical dimensions and resolution).

Larry wrote:
> Felix Lessing <felix.lessing@googlemail.com> wrote in news:1d22a463-
> 4885-47c0-bb50-23fc26d1369e@s31g2000...oglegroups.com:
>
>> I'm about to buy a new laptop.
>> But everything in these days - at least as far
>> as I know - comes with Windows Vista.
>>
>
> Can you think of good reasons why a 10" bright screen and 1.6Ghz Atom
> processor with 1 or 2 GB of RAM and a 160GB hard drive WOULDN'T be a
> great laptop for you.....especially when it runs from 5-10 HOURS on a
> charge, instead of the superlaptops 45 minutes to an hour?
>
> Don't mention internet because anything you connect a laptop to on the
> internet is as slow as paint drying. Internet is a thousand times
> slower than a WinXP netbook.
>
> Now, can you justify paying 2-4 times as much for the superlaptop than,
> say, $379 for the BEST netbook, the Samsung NC10 with its totally NON-
> REFLECTIVE screen you can easily see the picture on, even outdoors in
> the sunshine? Don't buy ANY Glossy portable anything UNTIL you've
> carried it outside and looked at the picture for 10 minutes in the
> sunshine. I'm sure you'll easily see my repugnance of the stupid glossy
> mirrored screens and glossy plastic borders they put on them to impress
> the girlies. How awful!
>
> The NC10 easily is fast enough to play any media videos, office
> processing, moderate games to occupy your travel time.....
>
> Then, what good is a dual 3.2Ghz Xeon laptop with 6 RAID drives and 8GB
> of RAM if you have to either drag around a fork lift battery or run from
> AC outlet to outlet to run it over an hour? If it won't run all
> day...it's useless!
>
> Nope...There's a REASON XP-powered Netbooks sell like hotcakes, the most
> popular computers on Amazon.com.....
> Price
> Fast enough speed
> Big hard drives
> LONG runtimes on a single charge
> Non-glare, Non-reflective screen
>
> Oh, and the NC10's little finger pad is a multi-touch with a scrollbar!
> Run your finger down the scrollbar then out into the main pad area and
> it's just like having a mouse wheel to scroll up and down the whole
> page, no matter how long it is or how many pages a document gets...very
> nice.
>
> $379....in the less-popular blue case...Amazon.com this week....Free
> USPS shipping, too!
>
> I just went from the 6-cell extended battery (about 8 hours) on mine to
> the 9-cell 7.2AH beast that runs it 12 hours straight! You don't even
> have to fight the screen dimmer! $75 with shipping from buy.com.
>
> It still weighs under 3 pounds...about what the superlaptop's battery
> weighs...lugging it around.
>
> PS - Mine dual boots to WinXP SP3 or Ubuntu Linux 9.04. It still runs
> the old XP progs I've carried for years....while running the Linux toys
> on the "Cube" to impress the kids...(c;]
>
> Want a touchscreen? The Taiwanese have a nice touchscreen for it for
> $98, no soldering, self-installed. It steals USB from the 1.6MP camera
> port on the main board. You simply plug it in. The touchscreen
> interface board even ads 2 more USB ports, as if 3 on the NC10 weren't
> enough....
>
> My Nokia N800 Linux tablets spoiled me for touchscreen. Both WinXP and
> Ubuntu run great with the included drivers.
>
>
>

Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in news:h4obi3$sh0$3
@news.eternal-september.org:

> Netbooks are not general purpose Laptops/Notebooks. They are
netbooks.
> They are fine dfr some [ok, many] things, they are horrible for lots
> of other things. IN GENERAL, they are not good choices as a main,
> primary computer. They have NO optical drive, in most cases, their
> processors are weak, their memory is usually limited (granted, to a
> level that is enough for some people) and their screens are small (in
> both physical dimensions and resolution).
>
>

Horrible for what, specifically, that you need to do on a NOTEBOOK out
PORTABLE? 10.1" bright LCD screen sure beats lugging around that Drive-
in theatre beast, especially if you have to carry it further than 50
feet! The NC10's NON-REFLECTIVE, screen can be watched in direct
sunlight. You're not looking through a MIRROR IMAGE OF YOU to see the
picture!

I can understand the blustering, but cannot think of anything you'd need
in a PORTABLE NOTEBOOK the little netbooks won't do. They're not some
hobbled up iPhone gadget, but a full-fledged Windows XP computer, just
like any other. For 99% of all personal/home computing needs, a 1.6Ghz
Atom processor consuming little power is SUPERIOR to any of the
superfast processors that render their battery packs a single person can
pickup dead in an hour of converting the battery pack into waste heat
and blowing it out the side.

I get LOTS more computing power over many orders of greater hours on the
netbook than anything else I've ever owned.

But, as you'll notice, I was ASKING the poster if he could justify or
needed this battery-guzzling computing monster with the high powered
drivein screen doing something a 1.6Ghz, 160GB, 2GB RAM (upgrade is $20)
wouldn't do.

When was the last time you just HAD to burn a DVD+R in your superfancy
notebook that couldn't wait until you came home? The lack of drive is a
BENEFIT, not a restriction as you've eliminated a source of BATTERY
CONSUMPTION and WEIGHT and VOLUME the ****ed laptop drive takes up when
it's hardly ever needed at all! I find The Tornado USB device MUCH more
useful than a DVD/CD drive of any kind. If I want to rip/give files to
someone else, I simply plug in the Tornado and it self-boots-without-
installing it's Windows file manager on both machines by simply plugging
it in. Then, I can swap files at full USB 2.1 Expanded (or whatever
other new names they dream up) from one to the other MUCH MUCH faster
than burning and reading an old optical disk of any nature. Tornado
file transfers are only limited by how much hard drive space you
gots....and mine will soon be a 1TB 2.5" Western Digital beast as soon
as I can get one...(c;]

"Their memory is limited".....true, limited to 2GB. A 200 pin 2GB stick
is $20 from buy.com with free shipping. I can't imagine a LAPTOP
needing more. What the hell are you running a gigabit server?!

A laptop/notebook/netbook should never be the primary computer in
anyone's shack. That's crazy. I got rid of my tower and am using a
fully loaded, Dell Poweredge 2600 server I bought for $6 from a thrift
shop as my home computer, now. Talk about overkill! THAT's crazy!

Sure is nice to have 15,000 RPM hard drives with big cache instead of
the old 7200 RPM Pentium drives, though....Loads real quick!


--
Larry

http://flightaware.com/analysis/allflights_movie.rvt
Each tiny red dot is an airliner in this Quicktime movie, ONE recent day
of
air travel in the USA. What would happen if "they" found out this was
the real source of air pollution or cancer or why all the bugs around my
streetlight have disappeared? Would "they" tell us? Would "they" STOP
IT?!

Horrible for lots of things. Horrible for web browsing with many web
sites (including E-Bay). Horrible if you have to do CD or DVD burning
(sure, the optical drive would have to be external, but you can't even
install ANY Roxio software ... AT ALL ... because they won't install if
the screen resolution is less than 768 vertically). And there are many
other things.

Look, netbooks have their place (which varies by user) and in that place
they are really nice. But they are not good as the general purpose
computer, the ONLY computer, for most people.


Larry wrote:
> Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in news:h4obi3$sh0$3
> @news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> Netbooks are not general purpose Laptops/Notebooks. They are
> netbooks.
>> They are fine dfr some [ok, many] things, they are horrible for lots
>> of other things. IN GENERAL, they are not good choices as a main,
>> primary computer. They have NO optical drive, in most cases, their
>> processors are weak, their memory is usually limited (granted, to a
>> level that is enough for some people) and their screens are small (in
>> both physical dimensions and resolution).
>>
>>
>
> Horrible for what, specifically, that you need to do on a NOTEBOOK out
> PORTABLE? 10.1" bright LCD screen sure beats lugging around that Drive-
> in theatre beast, especially if you have to carry it further than 50
> feet! The NC10's NON-REFLECTIVE, screen can be watched in direct
> sunlight. You're not looking through a MIRROR IMAGE OF YOU to see the
> picture!
>
> I can understand the blustering, but cannot think of anything you'd need
> in a PORTABLE NOTEBOOK the little netbooks won't do. They're not some
> hobbled up iPhone gadget, but a full-fledged Windows XP computer, just
> like any other. For 99% of all personal/home computing needs, a 1.6Ghz
> Atom processor consuming little power is SUPERIOR to any of the
> superfast processors that render their battery packs a single person can
> pickup dead in an hour of converting the battery pack into waste heat
> and blowing it out the side.
>
> I get LOTS more computing power over many orders of greater hours on the
> netbook than anything else I've ever owned.
>
> But, as you'll notice, I was ASKING the poster if he could justify or
> needed this battery-guzzling computing monster with the high powered
> drivein screen doing something a 1.6Ghz, 160GB, 2GB RAM (upgrade is $20)
> wouldn't do.
>
> When was the last time you just HAD to burn a DVD+R in your superfancy
> notebook that couldn't wait until you came home? The lack of drive is a
> BENEFIT, not a restriction as you've eliminated a source of BATTERY
> CONSUMPTION and WEIGHT and VOLUME the ****ed laptop drive takes up when
> it's hardly ever needed at all! I find The Tornado USB device MUCH more
> useful than a DVD/CD drive of any kind. If I want to rip/give files to
> someone else, I simply plug in the Tornado and it self-boots-without-
> installing it's Windows file manager on both machines by simply plugging
> it in. Then, I can swap files at full USB 2.1 Expanded (or whatever
> other new names they dream up) from one to the other MUCH MUCH faster
> than burning and reading an old optical disk of any nature. Tornado
> file transfers are only limited by how much hard drive space you
> gots....and mine will soon be a 1TB 2.5" Western Digital beast as soon
> as I can get one...(c;]
>
> "Their memory is limited".....true, limited to 2GB. A 200 pin 2GB stick
> is $20 from buy.com with free shipping. I can't imagine a LAPTOP
> needing more. What the hell are you running a gigabit server?!
>
> A laptop/notebook/netbook should never be the primary computer in
> anyone's shack. That's crazy. I got rid of my tower and am using a
> fully loaded, Dell Poweredge 2600 server I bought for $6 from a thrift
> shop as my home computer, now. Talk about overkill! THAT's crazy!
>
> Sure is nice to have 15,000 RPM hard drives with big cache instead of
> the old 7200 RPM Pentium drives, though....Loads real quick!
>
>

Barry Watzman wrote:
> Horrible for lots of things. Horrible for web browsing with many web
> sites (including E-Bay). Horrible if you have to do CD or DVD burning
> (sure, the optical drive would have to be external, but you can't even
> install ANY Roxio software ... AT ALL ... because they won't install if
> the screen resolution is less than 768 vertically). And there are many
> other things.
>
> Look, netbooks have their place (which varies by user) and in that place
> they are really nice. But they are not good as the general purpose
> computer, the ONLY computer, for most people.
>
>
> Larry wrote:
>> Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in news:h4obi3$sh0$3
>> @news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> Netbooks are not general purpose Laptops/Notebooks. They are
>> netbooks.
>>> They are fine dfr some [ok, many] things, they are horrible for
>>> lots of other things. IN GENERAL, they are not good choices as a
>>> main, primary computer. They have NO optical drive, in most cases,
>>> their processors are weak, their memory is usually limited (granted,
>>> to a level that is enough for some people) and their screens are
>>> small (in both physical dimensions and resolution).
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Horrible for what, specifically, that you need to do on a NOTEBOOK out
>> PORTABLE? 10.1" bright LCD screen sure beats lugging around that Drive-
>> in theatre beast, especially if you have to carry it further than 50
>> feet! The NC10's NON-REFLECTIVE, screen can be watched in direct
>> sunlight. You're not looking through a MIRROR IMAGE OF YOU to see the
>> picture!
>>
>> I can understand the blustering, but cannot think of anything you'd
>> need in a PORTABLE NOTEBOOK the little netbooks won't do. They're not
>> some hobbled up iPhone gadget, but a full-fledged Windows XP computer,
>> just like any other. For 99% of all personal/home computing needs, a
>> 1.6Ghz Atom processor consuming little power is SUPERIOR to any of the
>> superfast processors that render their battery packs a single person
>> can pickup dead in an hour of converting the battery pack into waste
>> heat and blowing it out the side.
>>
>> I get LOTS more computing power over many orders of greater hours on
>> the netbook than anything else I've ever owned.
>>
>> But, as you'll notice, I was ASKING the poster if he could justify or
>> needed this battery-guzzling computing monster with the high powered
>> drivein screen doing something a 1.6Ghz, 160GB, 2GB RAM (upgrade is
>> $20) wouldn't do.
>>
>> When was the last time you just HAD to burn a DVD+R in your superfancy
>> notebook that couldn't wait until you came home? The lack of drive is
>> a BENEFIT, not a restriction as you've eliminated a source of BATTERY
>> CONSUMPTION and WEIGHT and VOLUME the ****ed laptop drive takes up
>> when it's hardly ever needed at all! I find The Tornado USB device
>> MUCH more useful than a DVD/CD drive of any kind. If I want to
>> rip/give files to someone else, I simply plug in the Tornado and it
>> self-boots-without-
>> installing it's Windows file manager on both machines by simply
>> plugging it in. Then, I can swap files at full USB 2.1 Expanded (or
>> whatever other new names they dream up) from one to the other MUCH
>> MUCH faster than burning and reading an old optical disk of any
>> nature. Tornado file transfers are only limited by how much hard
>> drive space you gots....and mine will soon be a 1TB 2.5" Western
>> Digital beast as soon as I can get one...(c;]
>>
>> "Their memory is limited".....true, limited to 2GB. A 200 pin 2GB
>> stick is $20 from buy.com with free shipping. I can't imagine a
>> LAPTOP needing more. What the hell are you running a gigabit server?!
>>
>> A laptop/notebook/netbook should never be the primary computer in
>> anyone's shack. That's crazy. I got rid of my tower and am using a
>> fully loaded, Dell Poweredge 2600 server I bought for $6 from a thrift
>> shop as my home computer, now. Talk about overkill! THAT's crazy!
>>
>> Sure is nice to have 15,000 RPM hard drives with big cache instead of
>> the old 7200 RPM Pentium drives, though....Loads real quick!
>>
>>
Bill must be on vacation, this type of thread is irrestible for him!

There is a place for each (almost) type of machine, but none can claim
to be the ultimate. To each his own, depending on his needs and tastes.

I for one would not settle for a stamp size screen (hi Bill!), nor for a
glossy finish, nor for a 17" screen on a machine which is supposed to be
mobile, nor for ... the list goes on.

--
John Doue

Barry Watzman wrote:
> Horrible for lots of things. Horrible for web browsing with many web
> sites (including E-Bay). Horrible if you have to do CD or DVD burning
> (sure, the optical drive would have to be external, but you can't even
> install ANY Roxio software ... AT ALL ... because they won't install if
> the screen resolution is less than 768 vertically). And there are many
> other things.
>
> Look, netbooks have their place (which varies by user) and in that place
> they are really nice. But they are not good as the general purpose
> computer, the ONLY computer, for most people.

ROXIO is pure crap anyway...

John Doue wrote:
> Barry Watzman wrote:
>> Horrible for lots of things. Horrible for web browsing with many web
>> sites (including E-Bay). Horrible if you have to do CD or DVD burning
>> (sure, the optical drive would have to be external, but you can't even
>> install ANY Roxio software ... AT ALL ... because they won't install
>> if the screen resolution is less than 768 vertically). And there are
>> many other things.
>>
>> Look, netbooks have their place (which varies by user) and in that
>> place they are really nice. But they are not good as the general
>> purpose computer, the ONLY computer, for most people.
>>
>>
>> Larry wrote:
>>> Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in news:h4obi3$sh0$3
>>> @news.eternal-september.org:
>>>
>>>> Netbooks are not general purpose Laptops/Notebooks. They are
>>> netbooks.
>>>> They are fine dfr some [ok, many] things, they are horrible for
>>>> lots of other things. IN GENERAL, they are not good choices as a
>>>> main, primary computer. They have NO optical drive, in most cases,
>>>> their processors are weak, their memory is usually limited (granted,
>>>> to a level that is enough for some people) and their screens are
>>>> small (in both physical dimensions and resolution).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Horrible for what, specifically, that you need to do on a NOTEBOOK
>>> out PORTABLE? 10.1" bright LCD screen sure beats lugging around that
>>> Drive-
>>> in theatre beast, especially if you have to carry it further than 50
>>> feet! The NC10's NON-REFLECTIVE, screen can be watched in direct
>>> sunlight. You're not looking through a MIRROR IMAGE OF YOU to see
>>> the picture!
>>>
>>> I can understand the blustering, but cannot think of anything you'd
>>> need in a PORTABLE NOTEBOOK the little netbooks won't do. They're
>>> not some hobbled up iPhone gadget, but a full-fledged Windows XP
>>> computer, just like any other. For 99% of all personal/home
>>> computing needs, a 1.6Ghz Atom processor consuming little power is
>>> SUPERIOR to any of the superfast processors that render their battery
>>> packs a single person can pickup dead in an hour of converting the
>>> battery pack into waste heat and blowing it out the side.
>>>
>>> I get LOTS more computing power over many orders of greater hours on
>>> the netbook than anything else I've ever owned.
>>>
>>> But, as you'll notice, I was ASKING the poster if he could justify or
>>> needed this battery-guzzling computing monster with the high powered
>>> drivein screen doing something a 1.6Ghz, 160GB, 2GB RAM (upgrade is
>>> $20) wouldn't do.
>>>
>>> When was the last time you just HAD to burn a DVD+R in your
>>> superfancy notebook that couldn't wait until you came home? The lack
>>> of drive is a BENEFIT, not a restriction as you've eliminated a
>>> source of BATTERY CONSUMPTION and WEIGHT and VOLUME the ****ed laptop
>>> drive takes up when it's hardly ever needed at all! I find The
>>> Tornado USB device MUCH more useful than a DVD/CD drive of any kind.
>>> If I want to rip/give files to someone else, I simply plug in the
>>> Tornado and it self-boots-without-
>>> installing it's Windows file manager on both machines by simply
>>> plugging it in. Then, I can swap files at full USB 2.1 Expanded (or
>>> whatever other new names they dream up) from one to the other MUCH
>>> MUCH faster than burning and reading an old optical disk of any
>>> nature. Tornado file transfers are only limited by how much hard
>>> drive space you gots....and mine will soon be a 1TB 2.5" Western
>>> Digital beast as soon as I can get one...(c;]
>>>
>>> "Their memory is limited".....true, limited to 2GB. A 200 pin 2GB
>>> stick is $20 from buy.com with free shipping. I can't imagine a
>>> LAPTOP needing more. What the hell are you running a gigabit server?!
>>>
>>> A laptop/notebook/netbook should never be the primary computer in
>>> anyone's shack. That's crazy. I got rid of my tower and am using a
>>> fully loaded, Dell Poweredge 2600 server I bought for $6 from a
>>> thrift shop as my home computer, now. Talk about overkill! THAT's
>>> crazy!
>>>
>>> Sure is nice to have 15,000 RPM hard drives with big cache instead of
>>> the old 7200 RPM Pentium drives, though....Loads real quick!
>>>
>>>
> Bill must be on vacation, this type of thread is irrestible for him!
>
> There is a place for each (almost) type of machine, but none can claim
> to be the ultimate. To each his own, depending on his needs and tastes.
>
> I for one would not settle for a stamp size screen (hi Bill!), nor for a
> glossy finish, nor for a 17" screen on a machine which is supposed to be
> mobile, nor for ... the list goes on.
>
I started using my 12" Dell C400 for work on the road last year. It has
become may main machine. I have several other laptops and a pretty
snazzy dual monitor setup on my desk at home. My 5 yr old daughter uses
the dual monitor setup more than I ever do. The other laptops are kept
in a ready state in case of an unfortunate event with the C400 (I also
have a second C400 in like new condition I got from ebay for $54)
The C400 w/ P3 1.4 , 2GB ram, 160GB hd, XP sp3 does the trick. (1 USB
port, SERIAL PORT which is essential for me).
CD/DVD burning is done over my network or via my portable USB drive
(which I rarely carry along). Ultra ISO handles my virtual CD/DVD tasks
quite well. Load or unload an ISO and run it.

We recently started using an AspireOne (with its crappy Linpus
interface) for modem configuration on our jobs. Seemed like a blessing
until we found out the Config setup only works with IE. Installed Wine
and IE6 last nite, gonna take another test drive today. ( yeah where is
Bill I could use his help?)

On Jul 30, 1:32*am, Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOS...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
> Horrible for lots of things. *Horrible for web browsing with many web
> sites (including E-Bay). *Horrible if you have to do CD or DVD burning
> (sure, the optical drive would have to be external, but you can't even
> install ANY Roxio software ... AT ALL ... because they won't install if
> the screen resolution is less than 768 vertically). *And there are many
> other things.
>
> Look, netbooks have their place (which varies by user) and in that place
> they are really nice. *But they are not good as the general purpose
> computer, the ONLY computer, for most people.
>

I really agree with that Barry

On Jul 29, 11:16*am, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
> Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOS...@neo.rr.com> wrote in news:h4obi3$sh0$3
> @news.eternal-september.org:
>
>
>
> > Netbooks are not general purpose Laptops/Notebooks. *They are
> netbooks.
> > * They are fine dfr some [ok, many] things, they are horrible for lots
> > of other things. *IN GENERAL, they are not good choices as a main,
> > primary computer. *They have NO optical drive, in most cases, their
> > processors are weak, their memory is usually limited (granted, to a
> > level that is enough for some people) and their screens are small (in
> > both physical dimensions and resolution).
>
> Horrible for what, specifically, that you need to do on a NOTEBOOK out
> PORTABLE? *10.1" bright LCD screen sure beats lugging around that Drive-
> in theatre beast, especially if you have to carry it further than 50
> feet! *The NC10's NON-REFLECTIVE, screen can be watched in direct
> sunlight. *You're not looking through a MIRROR IMAGE OF YOU to see the
> picture!
>
> I can understand the blustering, but cannot think of anything you'd need
> in a PORTABLE NOTEBOOK the little netbooks won't do. *They're not some
> hobbled up iPhone gadget, but a full-fledged Windows XP computer, just
> like any other. *For 99% of all personal/home computing needs, a 1.6Ghz
> Atom processor consuming little power is SUPERIOR to any of the
> superfast processors that render their battery packs a single person can
> pickup dead in an hour of converting the battery pack into waste heat
> and blowing it out the side.
>
> I get LOTS more computing power over many orders of greater hours on the
> netbook than anything else I've ever owned.
>
> But, as you'll notice, I was ASKING the poster if he could justify or
> needed this battery-guzzling computing monster with the high powered
> drivein screen doing something a 1.6Ghz, 160GB, 2GB RAM (upgrade is $20)
> wouldn't do.
>
> When was the last time you just HAD to burn a DVD+R in your superfancy
> notebook that couldn't wait until you came home? *The lack of drive is a
> BENEFIT, not a restriction as you've eliminated a source of BATTERY
> CONSUMPTION and WEIGHT and VOLUME the ****ed laptop drive takes up when
> it's hardly ever needed at all! *I find The Tornado USB device MUCH more
> useful than a DVD/CD drive of any kind. *If I want to rip/give files to
> someone else, I simply plug in the Tornado and it self-boots-without-
> installing it's Windows file manager on both machines by simply plugging
> it in. *Then, I can swap files at full USB 2.1 Expanded (or whatever
> other new names they dream up) from one to the other MUCH MUCH faster
> than burning and reading an old optical disk of any nature. *Tornado
> file transfers are only limited by how much hard drive space you
> gots....and mine will soon be a 1TB 2.5" Western Digital beast as soon
> as I can get one...(c;]
>
> "Their memory is limited".....true, limited to 2GB. *A 200 pin 2GB stick
> is $20 from buy.com with free shipping. *I can't imagine a LAPTOP
> needing more. *What the hell are you running a gigabit server?!
>
> A laptop/notebook/netbook should never be the primary computer in
> anyone's shack. *That's crazy. *I got rid of my tower and am using a
> fully loaded, Dell Poweredge 2600 server I bought for $6 from a thrift
> shop as my home computer, now. *Talk about overkill! *THAT's crazy!
>
> Sure is nice to have 15,000 RPM hard drives with big cache instead of
> the old 7200 RPM Pentium drives, though....Loads real quick!
>
> --
> Larry
>
> http://flightaware.com/analysis/allflights_movie.rvt
> Each tiny red dot is an airliner in this Quicktime movie, ONE recent day
> of
> air travel in the USA. *What would happen if "they" found out this was
> the real source of air pollution or cancer or why all the bugs around my
> streetlight have disappeared? *Would "they" tell us? *Would "they" STOP
> IT?!

Larry you should not dictate your terms on other people preference
for their personal portable computers.....
I for one hate netbooks and a few times I rejected gifts of such kind
given to me including the Samsung Model you are so proud about. I did
not even open the packages when I know whats in it, but politely
returned all of them to the sender much to their surprise.

I don’t want any of those tiny crap**** within 10 feet of my home!

But if other people are happy with such miniature laptops, so be it,
I RESPECT that and in the same way I NEVER dictate also my preference
for huge and expensive desktop replacement systems to other people
who hates its being tethered to the power socket permanently and so
heavy to carry around, but that is my PERSONAL choice….

But I insist .. and majority will surely agree .that a very powerful
laptop or accurately a desktop replacement system is already a
complete computer and can do 100% of the computing work I need for
it...and therefore I have no need for those clunky desktops either.
Roy

Roy wrote:
> On Jul 29, 11:16 am, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
>> Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOS...@neo.rr.com> wrote in news:h4obi3$sh0$3
>> @news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Netbooks are not general purpose Laptops/Notebooks. They are
>> netbooks.
>>> They are fine dfr some [ok, many] things, they are horrible for lots
>>> of other things. IN GENERAL, they are not good choices as a main,
>>> primary computer. They have NO optical drive, in most cases, their
>>> processors are weak, their memory is usually limited (granted, to a
>>> level that is enough for some people) and their screens are small (in
>>> both physical dimensions and resolution).
>> Horrible for what, specifically, that you need to do on a NOTEBOOK out
>> PORTABLE? 10.1" bright LCD screen sure beats lugging around that Drive-
>> in theatre beast, especially if you have to carry it further than 50
>> feet! The NC10's NON-REFLECTIVE, screen can be watched in direct
>> sunlight. You're not looking through a MIRROR IMAGE OF YOU to see the
>> picture!
>>
>> I can understand the blustering, but cannot think of anything you'd need
>> in a PORTABLE NOTEBOOK the little netbooks won't do. They're not some
>> hobbled up iPhone gadget, but a full-fledged Windows XP computer, just
>> like any other. For 99% of all personal/home computing needs, a 1.6Ghz
>> Atom processor consuming little power is SUPERIOR to any of the
>> superfast processors that render their battery packs a single person can
>> pickup dead in an hour of converting the battery pack into waste heat
>> and blowing it out the side.
>>
>> I get LOTS more computing power over many orders of greater hours on the
>> netbook than anything else I've ever owned.
>>
>> But, as you'll notice, I was ASKING the poster if he could justify or
>> needed this battery-guzzling computing monster with the high powered
>> drivein screen doing something a 1.6Ghz, 160GB, 2GB RAM (upgrade is $20)
>> wouldn't do.
>>
>> When was the last time you just HAD to burn a DVD+R in your superfancy
>> notebook that couldn't wait until you came home? The lack of drive is a
>> BENEFIT, not a restriction as you've eliminated a source of BATTERY
>> CONSUMPTION and WEIGHT and VOLUME the ****ed laptop drive takes up when
>> it's hardly ever needed at all! I find The Tornado USB device MUCH more
>> useful than a DVD/CD drive of any kind. If I want to rip/give files to
>> someone else, I simply plug in the Tornado and it self-boots-without-
>> installing it's Windows file manager on both machines by simply plugging
>> it in. Then, I can swap files at full USB 2.1 Expanded (or whatever
>> other new names they dream up) from one to the other MUCH MUCH faster
>> than burning and reading an old optical disk of any nature. Tornado
>> file transfers are only limited by how much hard drive space you
>> gots....and mine will soon be a 1TB 2.5" Western Digital beast as soon
>> as I can get one...(c;]
>>
>> "Their memory is limited".....true, limited to 2GB. A 200 pin 2GB stick
>> is $20 from buy.com with free shipping. I can't imagine a LAPTOP
>> needing more. What the hell are you running a gigabit server?!
>>
>> A laptop/notebook/netbook should never be the primary computer in
>> anyone's shack. That's crazy. I got rid of my tower and am using a
>> fully loaded, Dell Poweredge 2600 server I bought for $6 from a thrift
>> shop as my home computer, now. Talk about overkill! THAT's crazy!
>>
>> Sure is nice to have 15,000 RPM hard drives with big cache instead of
>> the old 7200 RPM Pentium drives, though....Loads real quick!
>>
>> --
>> Larry
>>
>> http://flightaware.com/analysis/allflights_movie.rvt
>> Each tiny red dot is an airliner in this Quicktime movie, ONE recent day
>> of
>> air travel in the USA. What would happen if "they" found out this was
>> the real source of air pollution or cancer or why all the bugs around my
>> streetlight have disappeared? Would "they" tell us? Would "they" STOP
>> IT?!
>
> Larry you should not dictate your terms on other people preference
> for their personal portable computers.....
> I for one hate netbooks and a few times I rejected gifts of such kind
> given to me including the Samsung Model you are so proud about. I did
> not even open the packages when I know whats in it, but politely
> returned all of them to the sender much to their surprise.
>
> I don’t want any of those tiny crap**** within 10 feet of my home!
>
> But if other people are happy with such miniature laptops, so be it,
> I RESPECT that and in the same way I NEVER dictate also my preference
> for huge and expensive desktop replacement systems to other people
> who hates its being tethered to the power socket permanently and so
> heavy to carry around, but that is my PERSONAL choice….
>
> But I insist .. and majority will surely agree .that a very powerful
> laptop or accurately a desktop replacement system is already a
> complete computer and can do 100% of the computing work I need for
> it...and therefore I have no need for those clunky desktops either.
> Roy
>
>
Roy, next time, before you return presents, please consult with me, I
might be interested ... :-).

I stopped agreeing with your post when I reach your last paragraph.
Of course I respect your preferences, but it seems to me that when you
refer to "clunky desktops" (which I think are a disappearing species),
you ignore mini-desktops which offer the exact same benefits as the big
laptop you favor, at a fraction of the course, while letting you choose
your keyboard, your display, and their respective positions.

Agreed, they do not claim to be mobile, but their small size makes it
easy to move them when needed. Of course, it needs to be connected full
time to the mains, which you readily accept.

Of course, to each its own, but my approach is less expensive and more
flexible, especially since I will never settle with a laptop with a
"bright" display.

Regards


--
John Doue