In news:1n2465dodavjq4dni0i8l396vmjtdjp6mu@4ax.com,
RnR typed on Sat, 18 Jul 2009 12:55:10 -0500:
> On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:20:42 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>>
>> "RnR" <rnrtexas******.com> wrote in message
>> news:3ih365duuta7r2v3finto72jbrfdqt05k3@4ax.com...
>>> Another suggestion but with a cost $$$, is to tell the OP to use
>>> vmware to avoid the worry of messing up the mbr or OS. This makes
>>> all his testing in a virtual environment so it never touches his
>>> real OS.
>>
>> That requires a vmware compatible processor though. Many of them are
>> not. Especially in the laptop / netbook departments.
>
>
> Well I don't think that is a real concern here for vmware workstation
> 6.x, see below :
>
> Compatible processors include:
> Intel: Celeron, Pentium II, Pentium III, Pentium 4, Pentium M
> (including computers with Centrino mobile technology), Xeon (including
> "Prestonia"), and Core 2 processors
> AMD: Athlon, Athlon MP, Athlon XP, Athlon 64, Duron, Opteron, Turion
> 64 AMD Sempron
>
> For additional information, including notes on processors that are not
> compatible, see the VMware knowledge base at
> http://www.vmware.com/support/kb/end...hp?p_faqid=967.
>
> Multiprocessor systems supported
> 64-bit systems supported: AMD Opteron, AMD Athlon 64, AMD Turion 64,
> AMD Sempron, Intel EM64T.
> Support for 64-bit guest operating systems is available only on the
> following versions of these processors:
> AMD Athlon 64, revision D or later
> AMD Opteron, revision E or later
> AMD Turion 64, revision E or later
> AMD Sempron, 64?bit?capable revision D or later
> Intel Pentium 4 and Core 2 processors with EM64T and Intel
> Virtualization Technology
>
>
> I think the real concern here will be the cost which I think is around
> $150 to $200 but I have to admit, it works nicely on my E1405 laptop
> which isn't that powerful.

Oh I stand corrected! Thanks again. <grin>

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 - Windows XP SP2

"Timothy Daniels" <NoSpam@SpamMeKnot.biz> wrote in message
news:OrydnUMhlocMlP_XnZ2dnUVZ_rOdnZ2d@earthlink.co m...
> "BillW50" wrote:
>> [....]
>> Now for booting XP and Linux, Microsoft did something really
>> nice with Vista and Windows 7. As they changed from MBR
>> to BCD for booting your OS'. Not only can BCD boot Vista /
>> Windows 7, but also DOS, Win9x, 2000/XP. Linux and anything
>> else you can think of. Plus you can have zillions of primary
>> partitions too. It is really nice.
>>
>> Problem is, Microsoft's tool to edit the BCD is a command line
>> utility and it is just awful! Luckily you don't have to use it. As
>> NeoSmart Technologies has created a free version called
>> EasyBCD to edit it. You don't need Vista or Windows 7 on
>> your drive to use it. As it runs under older versions of Windows
>> too. And it is really slick. And you can create BCD or MBR,
>> or toast either one as well. It sure made my life so much easier.
>> [....]
>
> For most people dual-booting with Vista, EasyBCD
> (http://neosmart.net/wiki/display/EBC...mentation+Home)
> or VistaBootPro
> (http://en.kioskea.net/telecharger/te...vista-boot-pro)
> are the ways to go. But those who like "doing it themselves"
> without a 3rd-party utility can use BCD directly with a procedure
> that I put together from several Web articles. With this method,
> I've set up a dual-boot between Vista and Ubuntu on my Dell laptop,
> wherein the Vista boot manager gives the option to boot either Vista
> (the default) or Ubuntu. Selecting Ubuntu brings up Grub, which gives
> the option to boot Ubuntu (the default) or Vista. Selecting Vista
> brings up the Vista boot manager again. So the user can use either
> boot manager to boot its "native" OS. Here is the set-up procedure:
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> USING BCDEDIT TO ADD A LINUX ENTRY TO
> VISTA'S BCD STORE
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> Install Grub to Linux partition (not to MBR)
>
> in Ubuntu:
> ----------
>
> find device names of Vista(VV) and Linux(LL) partitions
> System/Preferences/Hardware Information/SCSI Adapter [CANNOT FIND]
> or
> sudo fdisk -l
>
> copy the boot sector of the Linux partition
> directly to the root of the Vista partition
> (check the name of the Vista partition in /media)
> sudo dd if=/dev/sdLL of=/media/sdVV/Ubootsect.bin bs=512 count=1
>
> Use Synaptic to load Gparted from installation DVD,
> mark Vista partition "active" to load Vista's BCD
> [use Gparted's "Manage flags" to set the "boot" flag]
>
> System/Administration/Partition_Editor
> or
> sudo gparted
>
>
> in Vista:
> --------
>
> rt-click command prompt icon, select "Run as administrator",
> show the current boot menu entries
> bcdedit /enum
>
> (if there is already an obsolete entry for Ubuntu,
> delete it with: bcdedit /delete {obsoleteID} )
>
> in Vista's command prompt, make a new BCD entry
> bcdedit /create /d "Ubuntu" /application BOOTSECTOR
>
> [rt-click|Mark, highlight "{long hex no.}", rt-click]
> [refer to the returned long hex no. as "UbuntuID"]
>
> declare the ID as a boot device
> [rt-click|Paste to fill in "{UbuntuID}" in cmd below]
>
> bcdedit /set {UbuntuID} device boot
> [including the braces]
>
> specify the path to the copy of the Ubuntu boot sector
> bcdedit /set {UbuntuID} path \Ubootsect.bin
>
> add Ubuntu entry to the boot time menu
> bcdedit /displayorder {UbuntuID} /addlast
>
> set default OS timeout to be 10 seconds
> bcdedit /timeout 10
>
> show the new boot menu entries
> bcdedit /enum
>
> in Ubuntu, edit boot menu
> sudo gedit /boot/grub/menu.lst
> -------------------------------------
>
> Have fun!

Very nice and professional Tim. <grin>

--
Bill
Windows 7 Ultimate (build 7100)
Asus EEE PC 702G16 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC

BillW50 wrote:
> In news:pZd8m.20$Qt5.0@read4.inet.fi,
> John Doue typed on Sat, 18 Jul 2009 06:29:41 GMT:
>> All previous answers correctly tell you that Linux will change your
>> present MBR, which is not necessarily a desirable thing since in case
>> of trouble with Linux, you indeed have to rebuild it.
>
> Hi John! EasyBCD (it is free) will boot anything, even MacOS, and it
> keeps your MBR too.
>
>> One way to make this inconvenience a lesser one is to first install
>> System Commander and to get familiarize with the way it works. Read
>> the manual thoroughly before you install Linux using its partitioning
>> utilitie.
>> Then, instead of having a not so nice menu at bootup offering the
>> option of Windows or Linux, you will be presented System Commander's
>> menu. This is way nicer and then, you can access various utilities
>> which come in handy at boot time.
>>
>> I insist that you must get familiar with System Commander before you
>> attempt to use it to install Linux.
>
> System Commander costs $69.95 though. EasyBCD is free. You also need the
> folder from Vista or Windows 7 machine called Boot. But Windows 7 is
> free right now, so cost is nothing. And BCD is the best boot manager on
> the planet right now.
>
>> Bottom line: I have done what you intend to do ... it works, but
>> after a while, I reverted on Windows only, discouraged by the various
>> problems which crop up once you get to the point you want to do more
>> than stare at a desktop fairly similar to the one you have in Windows.
>> Everything
>> gets complicated very fast.
>>
>> If you are serious in your intention to work on Linux, my best advice
>> would be to get an inexpensive used machine which you would devote to
>> Linux. Doing this will save you a lot of headaches down the road.
>
> I bought spare HDD carriers for my laptops and I have spare SSD for my
> netbooks. But I also use dedicated machines too. But with these spare
> HDDs and SSDs, I can swap out in seconds and I can try something new for
> a change. Also handy to make sure your backup and recovery plan actually
> works as well. Nothing worse then making backups for years and then
> later learn the hard way that the silly thing won't create a working
> copy of your system anyway. <sigh>
>

Bill,

I cannot seem to find an installation guide for easybcd. Any utility
dealing with boot partitions deserves a very detailed guide ... I wont
install it without one. Indeed SC costs some money but it comes with a
very detailed and useful documentation.

Furthermore, Easybcd says it is intended for Vista machines. I do not
care about Vista and Windows 7. Have you tried installing it on an XP
machine?

Best regards

--
John Doue

"John Doue" <notwobe******.com> wrote in message
news:0Rp8m.121$Qt5.113@read4.inet.fi...
> I cannot seem to find an installation guide for easybcd. Any utility
> dealing with boot partitions deserves a very detailed guide ... I wont
> install it without one. Indeed SC costs some money but it comes with a
> very detailed and useful documentation.

Hi John! No EasyBCD has a FAQ that answers everything and documentation
as well. Maybe you saw it on other third party sites that carries it too
without documentation or anything.

FAQ
http://neosmart.net/wiki/display/EBCD/FAQ

Documentation
http://neosmart.net/wiki/display/EBC...mentation+Home

Home
http://neosmart.net/dl.php?id=1

Forum
http://neosmart.net/forums/#

> Furthermore, Easybcd says it is intended for Vista machines. I do not
> care about Vista and Windows 7. Have you tried installing it on an XP
> machine?

Yes and many others have many others have too. You do need to copy the
Boot folder from a Vista or a Windows 7 setup. It is less than 14kb in
size. It would fit on a 1.44MB floppy if you dump all of the other
languages in the subfolders.

--
Bill
Windows 7 Ultimate (build 7100)
Asus EEE PC 702G16 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
news:h3tcqk$euu$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> ... Boot folder from a Vista or a Windows 7 setup. It is less than
> 14kb in It would fit on a 1.44MB floppy if you dump all of the other
> languages in the subfolders.

Oops! I mean 14MB not 14KB. lol

--
Bill
Windows 7 Ultimate (build 7100)
Asus EEE PC 702G16 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC

Timothy Daniels wrote:
> "JimR" wrote:
>> [.....]
>> Linux will not hurt Windoze at all. It will continue to function normally. At boot time, you will be presented with
>> a selection menu that lets you decide whether you want Linux or Windows.
>
>
> The Linux installer, though, will substitute Grub for Windows
> boot manager, changing the MBR in the process. If the user wants
> to put the Linux boot manager in control, fine. But if one wanted
> to revert to Windows' boot manager upon removing Linux, say,
> one would have to rebuild the MBR.
>
> *TimDaniels*
>
>

Yes, but there is nothing wrong with GRUB. And if the OP wishes to
restore the Windows MBR, I believe that is an option on the Windows boot
disk.

JimR

">>
>
> <snip>....... And if the OP wishes to restore the Windows MBR, I believe
> that is an option on the Windows boot disk.
>
> JimR

tried to restore several different time....XP still wouldn't boot. Another
reason that Linux now keeps the coffee ring off of my desk

"olfart" wrote:
>> <snip>....... And if the OP wishes to restore the Windows MBR,
>> I believe that is an option on the Windows boot disk.
>>
>> JimR
>
> tried to restore several different time....XP still wouldn't boot.
> Another reason that Linux now keeps the coffee ring off of my desk


Have you checked which partition is set to "active" and if the
boot.ini file in that partition is correct?

*TimDaniels*

"olfart" <olfart65@excite.com> wrote:

>JimR wrote:
>>there is nothing wrong with GRUB. And if the OP wishes to
>>restore the Windows MBR, I believe that is an option
>>on the Windows boot disk

Windows MBR restore software has been on all of my laptop recovery
disks. It requires using the command line, but is easy to use and has
worked flawlessly every time I've used it.

>tried to restore several different time....XP still wouldn't boot. Another
>reason that Linux now keeps the coffee ring off of my desk

But if you can't figure out how to restore an MBR then you are wise to
stay away from Linux. Restoring the MBR is duck soup compared to the
shenanigans you sometimes have to go through to get a particular Linux
distro working correctly with all of the hardware on a particular
machine... ;)

"JimR" wrote:
> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>> "JimR" wrote:
>>> [.....]
>>> Linux will not hurt Windoze at all. It will continue to function
>>> normally. At boot time, you will be presented with a selection
>>> menu that lets you decide whether you want Linux or Windows.
>>
>>
>> The Linux installer, though, will substitute Grub for Windows
>> boot manager, changing the MBR in the process. If the user wants
>> to put the Linux boot manager in control, fine. But if one wanted
>> to revert to Windows' boot manager upon removing Linux, say,
>> one would have to rebuild the MBR.
>>
>> *TimDaniels*
>
> Yes, but there is nothing wrong with GRUB. And if the OP wishes
> to restore the Windows MBR, I believe that is an option on the
> Windows boot disk.
>
> JimR

You are correct. Grub is a nice boot manager that can boot
Windows as well as Linux. But.. if you're a purist (like me) and
want to use Windows's boot manager to load Windows, and
Linux's boot manager (Grub) to load Linux, you'd do it myyyyy
waaaaay.
:-)

*TimDaniels*

"AJL" wrote:
> "olfart" wrote:
>
>>JimR wrote:
>>>there is nothing wrong with GRUB. And if the OP wishes to
>>>restore the Windows MBR, I believe that is an option
>>>on the Windows boot disk
>
> Windows MBR restore software has been on all of my laptop recovery
> disks. It requires using the command line, but is easy to use and has
> worked flawlessly every time I've used it.
>
>>tried to restore several different time....XP still wouldn't boot. Another
>>reason that Linux now keeps the coffee ring off of my desk
>
> But if you can't figure out how to restore an MBR then you are wise to
> stay away from Linux. Restoring the MBR is duck soup compared to the
> shenanigans you sometimes have to go through to get a particular Linux
> distro working correctly with all of the hardware on a particular
> machine... ;)

Yup, the availability of drivers can be a problem with Linux - some
device manufacturers just don't bother with developing drivers to
run on Linux, Logitech being one of them. OTOH, finding a suitable
driver is usually possible, and then there's always what's-its-name,
ndiswrapper? It adapts Windows drivers to work with Linux. In the
case of my Logitech Bluetooth mouse, there was a generic driver in
Ubuntu that works quite well - after a couple simple tweaks to get the
forward and back buttons working.

*TimDaniels*

"Timothy Daniels" <NoSpam@SpamMeKnot.biz> wrote in message
news:X8Odnd69x-TNVv7XnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> "olfart" wrote:
>>> <snip>....... And if the OP wishes to restore the Windows MBR,
>>> I believe that is an option on the Windows boot disk.
>>>
>>> JimR
>>
>> tried to restore several different time....XP still wouldn't boot.
>> Another reason that Linux now keeps the coffee ring off of my desk
>
> Have you checked which partition is set to "active" and if the
> boot.ini file in that partition is correct?

You also need NTDETECT.COM and NTLDR in the root folder. This is needed
for NT, 2000, and XP machines.

--
Bill
Windows 7 Ultimate (build 7100)
Asus EEE PC 702G16 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC

"BillW50" wrote:
> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
>> "olfart" wrote:
>>>> <snip>....... And if the OP wishes to restore the Windows MBR,
>>>> I believe that is an option on the Windows boot disk.
>>>>
>>>> JimR
>>>
>>> tried to restore several different time....XP still wouldn't boot.
>>> Another reason that Linux now keeps the coffee ring off of my desk
>>
>> Have you checked which partition is set to "active" and if the
>> boot.ini file in that partition is correct?
>
> You also need NTDETECT.COM and NTLDR in the root folder.
> This is needed for NT, 2000, and XP machines.

I was just looking at what might have been affected with the removal
of a partition, given that the WinXP used to boot before Linux was
added.

*TimDaniels*

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:20:42 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

>That requires a vmware compatible processor though. Many of them are
>not. Especially in the laptop / netbook departments.

That is interesting! Which ones are not? And why?

Thank you,

Aribert Deckers

--
POLICE - POLIZEI - POLITIE - POLICIA

http://www.ariplex.com/ama/amapolis.htm

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 18:20:40 -0400, "olfart" <olfart65@excite.com> wrote:

>tried to restore several different time....XP still wouldn't boot. Another
>reason that Linux now keeps the coffee ring off of my desk

I've gone through that uncounted times. Until I found the cuase: the tools do
not work.

The only thing which really works is the installation DVD of SuSE (that is what
I use - I do not bother with oder Linux-es).

--
POLICE - POLIZEI - POLITIE - POLICIA

http://www.ariplex.com/ama/amapolis.htm