Could this be caused by a MOS battery going dead?
If not, then what?...

My IBM A20 suddenly will not start at all.

The machine was running, and the screen was turned off.
When I tried to use the machine again, it was completely dead.

It will not boot at all and power is plugged in.
Won't even begin to boot up.

Help.

Thanks.

-Dennis

--
Dennis Kessler
http://www.denniskessler.com/acupuncture

In news:TDnfk.50279$YG6.20271@newsfe12.ams2,
dk_ typed on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 07:32:19 -0700:
> Could this be caused by a MOS battery going dead?
> If not, then what?...
>
> My IBM A20 suddenly will not start at all.
>
> The machine was running, and the screen was turned off.
> When I tried to use the machine again, it was completely dead.
>
> It will not boot at all and power is plugged in.
> Won't even begin to boot up.
>
> Help.
>
> Thanks.

Did you try booting without the main battery in the laptop? That would be
the first time I would try.

--
Bill
Gateway Celeron M 370 (1.5GHZ)
MX6124 (laptop) w/2GB
Windows XP Home SP2 (120GB HD)
Intel(r) 910GML (64MB shared)

In article <487e0efc$0$1351$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> ,
"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

> In news:TDnfk.50279$YG6.20271@newsfe12.ams2,
> dk_ typed on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 07:32:19 -0700:
> > Could this be caused by a MOS battery going dead?
> > If not, then what?...
> >
> > My IBM A20 suddenly will not start at all.
> >
> > The machine was running, and the screen was turned off.
> > When I tried to use the machine again, it was completely dead.
> >
> > It will not boot at all and power is plugged in.
> > Won't even begin to boot up.
> >
> > Help.
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> Did you try booting without the main battery in the laptop? That would be
> the first time I would try.

Did that first. ;)

What next?

-DK

--
Dennis Kessler
http://www.denniskessler.com/acupuncture

In news:D_pfk.22988$5U6.428@newsfe08.ams2,
dk_ typed on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:13:08 -0700:
> In article <487e0efc$0$1351$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> ,
> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>> In news:TDnfk.50279$YG6.20271@newsfe12.ams2,
>> dk_ typed on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 07:32:19 -0700:
>>> Could this be caused by a MOS battery going dead?
>>> If not, then what?...
>>>
>>> My IBM A20 suddenly will not start at all.
>>>
>>> The machine was running, and the screen was turned off.
>>> When I tried to use the machine again, it was completely dead.
>>>
>>> It will not boot at all and power is plugged in.
>>> Won't even begin to boot up.
>>>
>>> Help.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> Did you try booting without the main battery in the laptop? That
>> would be the first time I would try.
>
> Did that first. ;)
>
> What next?

Well you probably tried this next. Pull the AC adapter out and then try it
on the battery alone.

--
Bill
Gateway Celeron M 370 (1.5GHZ)
MX6124 (laptop) w/2GB
Windows XP Home SP2 (120GB HD)
Intel(r) 910GML (64MB shared)

In article <487e3511$0$1351$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> ,
"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

> In news:D_pfk.22988$5U6.428@newsfe08.ams2,
> dk_ typed on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:13:08 -0700:
> > In article <487e0efc$0$1351$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> ,
> > "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
> >
> >> In news:TDnfk.50279$YG6.20271@newsfe12.ams2,
> >> dk_ typed on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 07:32:19 -0700:
> >>> Could this be caused by a MOS battery going dead?
> >>> If not, then what?...
> >>>
> >>> My IBM A20 suddenly will not start at all.
> >>>
> >>> The machine was running, and the screen was turned off.
> >>> When I tried to use the machine again, it was completely dead.
> >>>
> >>> It will not boot at all and power is plugged in.
> >>> Won't even begin to boot up.
> >>>
> >>> Help.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Did you try booting without the main battery in the laptop? That
> >> would be the first time I would try.
> >
> > Did that first. ;)
> >
> > What next?
>
> Well you probably tried this next. Pull the AC adapter out and then try it
> on the battery alone.

Did that and with an additional known good battery.

Next please.

-DK


--
Dennis Kessler
http://www.denniskessler.com/acupuncture

In news:RHqfk.5$dl5.3@newsfe27.ams2,
dk_ typed on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:01:22 -0700:
> In article <487e3511$0$1351$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> ,
> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>> In news:D_pfk.22988$5U6.428@newsfe08.ams2,
>> dk_ typed on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:13:08 -0700:
>>> In article <487e0efc$0$1351$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> ,
>>> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In news:TDnfk.50279$YG6.20271@newsfe12.ams2,
>>>> dk_ typed on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 07:32:19 -0700:
>>>>> Could this be caused by a MOS battery going dead?
>>>>> If not, then what?...
>>>>>
>>>>> My IBM A20 suddenly will not start at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> The machine was running, and the screen was turned off.
>>>>> When I tried to use the machine again, it was completely dead.
>>>>>
>>>>> It will not boot at all and power is plugged in.
>>>>> Won't even begin to boot up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Help.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Did you try booting without the main battery in the laptop? That
>>>> would be the first time I would try.
>>>
>>> Did that first. ;)
>>>
>>> What next?
>>
>> Well you probably tried this next. Pull the AC adapter out and then
>> try it on the battery alone.
>
> Did that and with an additional known good battery.
>
> Next please.

Next is to remove the hard drive, CD/DVD drive, and memory. You will get an
error with the first and last missing of course. But if one of them is it,
you should know by having it do something. Many CD/DVD drives can be removed
on a lot of laptops with one screw. The secret is finding that one screw.
Another thing to try is disconnecting the LCD from the motherboard.

The idea here is one of these devices has a short and won't let the laptop
fire up. Once you find it, then you need to replace it. Of course, it could
be something else. And if you get the laptop far enough apart, checking that
CMOS battery would be another thing to try. Do you have a voltmeter?

--
Bill
Gateway Celeron M 370 (1.5GHZ)
MX6124 (laptop) w/2GB
Windows XP Home SP2 (120GB HD)
Intel(r) 910GML (64MB shared)

In article <487e416a$0$1350$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> ,
"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

> In news:RHqfk.5$dl5.3@newsfe27.ams2,
> dk_ typed on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:01:22 -0700:
> > In article <487e3511$0$1351$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> ,
> > "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
> >
> >> In news:D_pfk.22988$5U6.428@newsfe08.ams2,
> >> dk_ typed on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:13:08 -0700:
> >>> In article <487e0efc$0$1351$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> ,
> >>> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> In news:TDnfk.50279$YG6.20271@newsfe12.ams2,
> >>>> dk_ typed on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 07:32:19 -0700:
> >>>>> Could this be caused by a MOS battery going dead?
> >>>>> If not, then what?...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My IBM A20 suddenly will not start at all.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The machine was running, and the screen was turned off.
> >>>>> When I tried to use the machine again, it was completely dead.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It will not boot at all and power is plugged in.
> >>>>> Won't even begin to boot up.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Help.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks.
> >>>>
> >>>> Did you try booting without the main battery in the laptop? That
> >>>> would be the first time I would try.
> >>>
> >>> Did that first. ;)
> >>>
> >>> What next?
> >>
> >> Well you probably tried this next. Pull the AC adapter out and then
> >> try it on the battery alone.
> >
> > Did that and with an additional known good battery.
> >
> > Next please.
>
> Next is to remove the hard drive, CD/DVD drive, and memory. You will get an
> error with the first and last missing of course. But if one of them is it,
> you should know by having it do something. Many CD/DVD drives can be removed
> on a lot of laptops with one screw. The secret is finding that one screw.
> Another thing to try is disconnecting the LCD from the motherboard.
>
> The idea here is one of these devices has a short and won't let the laptop
> fire up. Once you find it, then you need to replace it. Of course, it could
> be something else. And if you get the laptop far enough apart, checking that
> CMOS battery would be another thing to try. Do you have a voltmeter?

It's alive!!! It's alive!!!

I removed the CD and the HD. The machine came to life. I put the HD back in
and the machine booted normally. I put the CD in and it too is fine. Even
the clock kept the right time. I have no idea what made it go bad, but your
ideas jogged it back to life.

Thanks.

-Dennis

--
Dennis Kessler
http://www.denniskessler.com/acupuncture

In article <MuAfk.132$mY5.119@newsfe28.ams2>, dk_ <nobody@spamless.com>
wrote:

> In article <487e416a$0$1350$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> ,
> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>
> > In news:RHqfk.5$dl5.3@newsfe27.ams2,
> > dk_ typed on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:01:22 -0700:
> > > In article <487e3511$0$1351$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> ,
> > > "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
> > >
> > >> In news:D_pfk.22988$5U6.428@newsfe08.ams2,
> > >> dk_ typed on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:13:08 -0700:
> > >>> In article <487e0efc$0$1351$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> ,
> > >>> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> In news:TDnfk.50279$YG6.20271@newsfe12.ams2,
> > >>>> dk_ typed on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 07:32:19 -0700:
> > >>>>> Could this be caused by a MOS battery going dead?
> > >>>>> If not, then what?...
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> My IBM A20 suddenly will not start at all.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The machine was running, and the screen was turned off.
> > >>>>> When I tried to use the machine again, it was completely dead.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> It will not boot at all and power is plugged in.
> > >>>>> Won't even begin to boot up.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Help.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Thanks.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Did you try booting without the main battery in the laptop? That
> > >>>> would be the first time I would try.
> > >>>
> > >>> Did that first. ;)
> > >>>
> > >>> What next?
> > >>
> > >> Well you probably tried this next. Pull the AC adapter out and then
> > >> try it on the battery alone.
> > >
> > > Did that and with an additional known good battery.
> > >
> > > Next please.
> >
> > Next is to remove the hard drive, CD/DVD drive, and memory. You will get an
> > error with the first and last missing of course. But if one of them is it,
> > you should know by having it do something. Many CD/DVD drives can be
> > removed
> > on a lot of laptops with one screw. The secret is finding that one screw.
> > Another thing to try is disconnecting the LCD from the motherboard.
> >
> > The idea here is one of these devices has a short and won't let the laptop
> > fire up. Once you find it, then you need to replace it. Of course, it could
> > be something else. And if you get the laptop far enough apart, checking
> > that
> > CMOS battery would be another thing to try. Do you have a voltmeter?
>
> It's alive!!! It's alive!!!
>
> I removed the CD and the HD. The machine came to life. I put the HD back in
> and the machine booted normally. I put the CD in and it too is fine. Even
> the clock kept the right time. I have no idea what made it go bad, but your
> ideas jogged it back to life.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Dennis


It's dead again. It happened when the machine was on, but not in use.

-DK

--
Dennis Kessler
http://www.denniskessler.com/acupuncture

dk_ wrote:
> In article <MuAfk.132$mY5.119@newsfe28.ams2>, dk_ <nobody@spamless.com>
> wrote:
>
>> In article <487e416a$0$1350$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> ,
>> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>>
>>> In news:RHqfk.5$dl5.3@newsfe27.ams2,
>>> dk_ typed on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:01:22 -0700:
>>>> In article <487e3511$0$1351$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> ,
>>>> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In news:D_pfk.22988$5U6.428@newsfe08.ams2,
>>>>> dk_ typed on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:13:08 -0700:
>>>>>> In article <487e0efc$0$1351$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> ,
>>>>>> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In news:TDnfk.50279$YG6.20271@newsfe12.ams2,
>>>>>>> dk_ typed on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 07:32:19 -0700:
>>>>>>>> Could this be caused by a MOS battery going dead?
>>>>>>>> If not, then what?...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My IBM A20 suddenly will not start at all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The machine was running, and the screen was turned off.
>>>>>>>> When I tried to use the machine again, it was completely dead.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It will not boot at all and power is plugged in.
>>>>>>>> Won't even begin to boot up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Help.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>> Did you try booting without the main battery in the laptop? That
>>>>>>> would be the first time I would try.
>>>>>> Did that first. ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What next?
>>>>> Well you probably tried this next. Pull the AC adapter out and then
>>>>> try it on the battery alone.
>>>> Did that and with an additional known good battery.
>>>>
>>>> Next please.
>>> Next is to remove the hard drive, CD/DVD drive, and memory. You will get an
>>> error with the first and last missing of course. But if one of them is it,
>>> you should know by having it do something. Many CD/DVD drives can be
>>> removed
>>> on a lot of laptops with one screw. The secret is finding that one screw.
>>> Another thing to try is disconnecting the LCD from the motherboard.
>>>
>>> The idea here is one of these devices has a short and won't let the laptop
>>> fire up. Once you find it, then you need to replace it. Of course, it could
>>> be something else. And if you get the laptop far enough apart, checking
>>> that
>>> CMOS battery would be another thing to try. Do you have a voltmeter?
>> It's alive!!! It's alive!!!
>>
>> I removed the CD and the HD. The machine came to life. I put the HD back in
>> and the machine booted normally. I put the CD in and it too is fine. Even
>> the clock kept the right time. I have no idea what made it go bad, but your
>> ideas jogged it back to life.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -Dennis
>
>
> It's dead again. It happened when the machine was on, but not in use.
>
> -DK
>
Although you did not ask "what next" this time :=), I suggest visiting >
http://forum.thinkpads.com/
and posting there.

Even if I tend to think that this is a hardware problem, you could try
to remove the hd and boot from a bootable CD (anyone would do) and let
you machine booted for a while to see if it dies again.

If it does not, it would not mean necessaryly the HD is bad: your system
(Windows I guess) might be corrupted. Booting into safe mode and let
your machine run would give you another indication.

But first, can you rule out an overheating problem?

Regards

--
John Doue

MOS battery?

Yes, on a few laptops failure of the CMOS battery can prevent booting
(or even POST). But it's not common, and it's not the LIKELY source of
your problem.


dk_ wrote:
> Could this be caused by a MOS battery going dead?
> If not, then what?...
>
> My IBM A20 suddenly will not start at all.
>
> The machine was running, and the screen was turned off.
> When I tried to use the machine again, it was completely dead.
>
> It will not boot at all and power is plugged in.
> Won't even begin to boot up.
>
> Help.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Dennis
>
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

He said it is not running AT ALL. It is COMPLETELY DEAD. IT WILL NOT
TURN ON (at all).

This can only be a hardware problem.

And to those who said "remove the memory" ... Most machines ARE dead
(totally, completely) if the have no memory at all. In most cases, the
CPU can't then establish a stack, and cannot do ANYTHING .... not even
beep (a few BIOS have some ROM-only, no calls code to be able to beep in
such situations; and, of course, if there is memory on the motherboard,
you can't remove ALL memory).

This is 95%+ a bad motherboard. But there is no harm in removing the
drive(s), and in removing all memory except the minimum amount (then, if
it still fails, try a different "minimum amount" memory module(s)). Try
a different power supply, try a charged battery (with and without AC
power), you can try a new CMOS battery. And, again, 95%+ of the time
you come back to it's still totally dead.


John Doue wrote:
{blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada}
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Barry Watzman wrote:
> He said it is not running AT ALL. It is COMPLETELY DEAD. IT WILL NOT
> TURN ON (at all).
>
> This can only be a hardware problem.
>
> And to those who said "remove the memory" ... Most machines ARE dead
> (totally, completely) if the have no memory at all. In most cases, the
> CPU can't then establish a stack, and cannot do ANYTHING .... not even
> beep (a few BIOS have some ROM-only, no calls code to be able to beep in
> such situations; and, of course, if there is memory on the motherboard,
> you can't remove ALL memory).
>
> This is 95%+ a bad motherboard. But there is no harm in removing the
> drive(s), and in removing all memory except the minimum amount (then, if
> it still fails, try a different "minimum amount" memory module(s)). Try
> a different power supply, try a charged battery (with and without AC
> power), you can try a new CMOS battery. And, again, 95%+ of the time
> you come back to it's still totally dead.
>
>
> John Doue wrote:
> {blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada}
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Sorry Barry, but the OP does say that he managed to get his machine
restarted after removing hd and CD drive I believe. I agree, it most
probably is a hardware problem, but still it is worth further
investigation before rushing to a conclusion.

Regards
--
John Doue

In article <9f07f$487ff4f1$13933@news.teranews.com>,
Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:

> He said it is not running AT ALL. It is COMPLETELY DEAD. IT WILL NOT
> TURN ON (at all).
>
> This can only be a hardware problem.
>
> And to those who said "remove the memory" ... Most machines ARE dead
> (totally, completely) if the have no memory at all. In most cases, the
> CPU can't then establish a stack, and cannot do ANYTHING .... not even
> beep (a few BIOS have some ROM-only, no calls code to be able to beep in
> such situations; and, of course, if there is memory on the motherboard,
> you can't remove ALL memory).
>
> This is 95%+ a bad motherboard. But there is no harm in removing the
> drive(s), and in removing all memory except the minimum amount (then, if
> it still fails, try a different "minimum amount" memory module(s)). Try
> a different power supply, try a charged battery (with and without AC
> power), you can try a new CMOS battery. And, again, 95%+ of the time
> you come back to it's still totally dead.
>
>
> John Doue wrote:
> {blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada}
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


SOLUTION...

Replaced the CMOS battery, (which was very old), problem solved, running
normally.

-Dennis

--
Dennis Kessler
http://www.denniskessler.com/acupuncture

dk_ wrote:
> In article <9f07f$487ff4f1$13933@news.teranews.com>,
> Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> He said it is not running AT ALL. It is COMPLETELY DEAD. IT WILL NOT
>> TURN ON (at all).
>>
>> This can only be a hardware problem.
>>
>> And to those who said "remove the memory" ... Most machines ARE dead
>> (totally, completely) if the have no memory at all. In most cases, the
>> CPU can't then establish a stack, and cannot do ANYTHING .... not even
>> beep (a few BIOS have some ROM-only, no calls code to be able to beep in
>> such situations; and, of course, if there is memory on the motherboard,
>> you can't remove ALL memory).
>>
>> This is 95%+ a bad motherboard. But there is no harm in removing the
>> drive(s), and in removing all memory except the minimum amount (then, if
>> it still fails, try a different "minimum amount" memory module(s)). Try
>> a different power supply, try a charged battery (with and without AC
>> power), you can try a new CMOS battery. And, again, 95%+ of the time
>> you come back to it's still totally dead.
>>
>>
>> John Doue wrote:
>> {blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada}
>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
>
>
> SOLUTION...
>
> Replaced the CMOS battery, (which was very old), problem solved, running
> normally.
>
> -Dennis
>
Glad you were able to solve the problem. But did not you get some
advanced warnings of the CMOS battery starting to fail, like clock
trouble and lost settings?

--
John Doue

John Doue <notwobe******.com> wrote in
news:irfik.23$vR4.5@read4.inet.fi:

> dk_ wrote:
>> In article <9f07f$487ff4f1$13933@news.teranews.com>,
>> Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> He said it is not running AT ALL. It is COMPLETELY DEAD. IT WILL
>>> NOT TURN ON (at all).
>>>
>>> This can only be a hardware problem.
>>>
>>> And to those who said "remove the memory" ... Most machines ARE dead
>>> (totally, completely) if the have no memory at all. In most cases,
>>> the CPU can't then establish a stack, and cannot do ANYTHING ....
>>> not even beep (a few BIOS have some ROM-only, no calls code to be
>>> able to beep in such situations; and, of course, if there is memory
>>> on the motherboard, you can't remove ALL memory).
>>>
>>> This is 95%+ a bad motherboard. But there is no harm in removing
>>> the drive(s), and in removing all memory except the minimum amount
>>> (then, if it still fails, try a different "minimum amount" memory
>>> module(s)). Try a different power supply, try a charged battery
>>> (with and without AC power), you can try a new CMOS battery. And,
>>> again, 95%+ of the time you come back to it's still totally dead.
>>>
>>>
>>> John Doue wrote:
>>> {blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada}
>>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
>>
>>
>> SOLUTION...
>>
>> Replaced the CMOS battery, (which was very old), problem solved,
>> running normally.
>>
>> -Dennis
>>
> Glad you were able to solve the problem. But did not you get some
> advanced warnings of the CMOS battery starting to fail, like clock
> trouble and lost settings?
>

None. not a single sign.

-Dennis

--
Dennis Kessler
http://www.denniskessler.com/acupuncture