I have my first new laptop since the days of the 286 chip (early 90s),
and am curious about the potential for heat problems I've heard so much
about with laptops. My new laptop is a Toshiba Satellite A215-S5825 with an
AMD Athlon dual processor TK-55 1.8 GHz CPU, 120 GB Fujitsu 5400 RPM HD, 1.5
GB DDR2 PC5300 RAM. This machine is far from the top of the line ones, so
I'd think heat would be less of a problem. On the other hand I know there's
a lot of stuff cramed into a tiny space in this thing, and you're always
seeing ads for laptop coolers. I'd really not bother with one of these
coolers, and I do have a 4 year maintenance contract, but if the CPU, mobo,
or other components are in jeopardy from heat, I might need one. My normal
use of this machine is a couple of hrs. daily in my lap in my den, connected
to my cable broadband via my Wi-Fi router and plugged into the house AC
power. Sitting in my lap, I doubt if the air flow is optimal, but the power
supply fan never seems to be running very fast nor its output all that hot
(it's pretty warm air, but you can hold your hand next to it as long as you
want without discomfort).
Any feedback about the need for a laptop cooler would be highly
appreciated. TIA

From your usage description, the best recommendation is to get a solid, flat
surface to put the laptop on while on your lap. This will allow its feet to
hold it up and get some airflow, and will also keep your legs from getting
warmed by the machine. If you're not feeling hot air vented from the
machine, you're doing fine.

Val

"Hula Baloo" <eepyeep@nospam.juno.com> wrote in message
news:C-KdnX69QeBifYDVnZ2dnUVZ_sOrnZ2d@comcast.com...
I have my first new laptop since the days of the 286 chip (early 90s),
and am curious about the potential for heat problems I've heard so much
about with laptops. My new laptop is a Toshiba Satellite A215-S5825 with an
AMD Athlon dual processor TK-55 1.8 GHz CPU, 120 GB Fujitsu 5400 RPM HD, 1.5
GB DDR2 PC5300 RAM. This machine is far from the top of the line ones, so
I'd think heat would be less of a problem. On the other hand I know there's
a lot of stuff cramed into a tiny space in this thing, and you're always
seeing ads for laptop coolers. I'd really not bother with one of these
coolers, and I do have a 4 year maintenance contract, but if the CPU, mobo,
or other components are in jeopardy from heat, I might need one. My normal
use of this machine is a couple of hrs. daily in my lap in my den, connected
to my cable broadband via my Wi-Fi router and plugged into the house AC
power. Sitting in my lap, I doubt if the air flow is optimal, but the power
supply fan never seems to be running very fast nor its output all that hot
(it's pretty warm air, but you can hold your hand next to it as long as you
want without discomfort).
Any feedback about the need for a laptop cooler would be highly
appreciated. TIA

In news:C-KdnX69QeBifYDVnZ2dnUVZ_sOrnZ2d@comcast.com,
Hula Baloo typed on Sun, 4 May 2008 12:14:57 -0400:
> I have my first new laptop since the days of the 286 chip (early
> 90s), and am curious about the potential for heat problems I've heard
> so much about with laptops. My new laptop is a Toshiba Satellite
> A215-S5825 with an AMD Athlon dual processor TK-55 1.8 GHz CPU, 120
> GB Fujitsu 5400 RPM HD, 1.5 GB DDR2 PC5300 RAM. This machine is far
> from the top of the line ones, so I'd think heat would be less of a
> problem. On the other hand I know there's a lot of stuff cramed into
> a tiny space in this thing, and you're always seeing ads for laptop
> coolers. I'd really not bother with one of these coolers, and I do
> have a 4 year maintenance contract, but if the CPU, mobo, or other
> components are in jeopardy from heat, I might need one. My normal
> use of this machine is a couple of hrs. daily in my lap in my den,
> connected to my cable broadband via my Wi-Fi router and plugged into
> the house AC power. Sitting in my lap, I doubt if the air flow is
> optimal, but the power supply fan never seems to be running very fast
> nor its output all that hot (it's pretty warm air, but you can hold
> your hand next to it as long as you want without discomfort). Any
> feedback about the need for a laptop cooler would be highly
> appreciated. TIA

Well get something like BattStat (freeware) from:
http://users.rcn.com/tmtalpey/BattStat/

And you can watch the hard drive(s) and CPU temperatures. I have found
that just boosting up the back end of the laptop an inch or more keeps
my Gateway MX6124, Celeron 1.5GHz, 1GB very cool. CPU is usually about
130°F and the hard drive about 108°F. And the fan runs very slowly you
can't even hear it unless the room is dead silent.

Flat on a desk/table the CPU will run about 150°F and the hard drive
about 120°F. And the fan will kick in on high speed about 15% of the
time under these conditions. And on my lap strangely enough, it runs the
coolest of all. But I am careful not to block the bottom vent with my
legs.

I never owned a laptop yet that gets very hot at all except my Toshiba
laptops. And the only ones I owned was from the 90's and none of them
had vents on the bottom. So those laptop fans probably won't do much for
those anyway. So I don't think much of those fans anyway. But I suppose
some people own laptops which does gets very hot. So they probably help
some people out a lot. :-)

--
Bill

"Hula Baloo" <eepyeep@nospam.juno.com> writes:
> I have my first new laptop since the days of the 286 chip (early 90s),
>and am curious about the potential for heat problems I've heard so much
>about with laptops.

If you use it for a few hours, does the case stay cool? Is there a fan
moving some cooling air through it all the time? Are there ventilation
openings in several places around the case? If the answer to all of
these is yes, then I wouldn't worry about it as long as you don't block
the ventilation openings.

I have personal experience with a couple of laptops. An ancient
Powerbook generated so little heat that it had no colling fan at all.

A Dell Inspirion 3800 (mobile Pentium III 600) had a heat pipe from the
CPU to a small finned heat sink in a rear corner of the case, and a
tiny fan to draw air through that heat sink when the CPU got too hot.
There was no provision for fan cooling anything other than the CPU, and
the CPU fan seldom ran either unless you were doing something that kept
the CPU very busy. As a result, the whole laptop would get pretty warm
after a few hours of use. I can't imagine that was good for the hard
drive lifetime, but the lack of airflow through the case would keep dirt
out.

A Gateway (two years old now, can't remember model) with a dual Turion
CPU has a much larger fan that normally runs at low speed and is very
quiet. In periods of heavy CPU use, the fan will switch to high speed.
It draws air from at least 3 different sets of air intakes around the
case, and exhausts it through the CPU heatsink and out the side of the
case. Because of the constant low-level fan operation, this laptop
stays cool indefinitely. The case never gets more than slightly warm,
and I'll bet the internal components stay much cooler than the Dell -
despite the laptop dissipating more heat overall. On the other hand,
this one is going to need cleaning occasionally because dirt will get
sucked in by the constant airflow.

Dave

Hula Baloo wrote:
> I have my first new laptop since the days of the 286 chip (early 90s),
> and am curious about the potential for heat problems I've heard so much
> about with laptops. My new laptop is a Toshiba Satellite A215-S5825
> with an AMD Athlon dual processor TK-55 1.8 GHz CPU, 120 GB Fujitsu 5400
> RPM HD, 1.5 GB DDR2 PC5300 RAM. This machine is far from the top of the
> line ones, so I'd think heat would be less of a problem. On the other
> hand I know there's a lot of stuff cramed into a tiny space in this
> thing, and you're always seeing ads for laptop coolers. I'd really not
> bother with one of these coolers, and I do have a 4 year maintenance
> contract, but if the CPU, mobo, or other components are in jeopardy from
> heat, I might need one. My normal use of this machine is a couple of
> hrs. daily in my lap in my den, connected to my cable broadband via my
> Wi-Fi router and plugged into the house AC power. Sitting in my lap, I
> doubt if the air flow is optimal, but the power supply fan never seems
> to be running very fast nor its output all that hot (it's pretty warm
> air, but you can hold your hand next to it as long as you want without
> discomfort).
> Any feedback about the need for a laptop cooler would be highly
> appreciated. TIA


The newer notebooks are, I believe, heat-proofed to some extent. There
are generally CPU sensor(s) that will lead to an overheat shutdown, thus
preserving the integrity of the CPU and mainboard in the event of a
cooling system failure.

I note that most cooling fan inlets are screened to reject hair, fur,
pizza, etc, that were the main culprits in plugging the inlet to the
heat-pipe heat exchanger.

Also, total power consumption with the newer CPUs is down substantially
compared to the previous single core 2.6Ghz Pentium chips (as an
example), so cooling is somewhat less of an issue that say five years ago.

Notebook cooling pads are simply a waste of money and time. None do
anything but cool the bottom case surface where little internal heat is
rejected. I hope that those USB-powered cooler manufacturers are sued
into oblivion when the notebook's USB is burned to the ground for no
apparent benefit.

Q

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
news:481deb9e$0$6432$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere. com...
> In news:C-KdnX69QeBifYDVnZ2dnUVZ_sOrnZ2d@comcast.com,
> Hula Baloo typed on Sun, 4 May 2008 12:14:57 -0400:
<snipped>
>>Sitting in my lap, I doubt if the air flow is
>> optimal, but the power supply fan never seems to be running very fast
>> nor its output all that hot (it's pretty warm air, but you can hold
>> your hand next to it as long as you want without discomfort). Any
>> feedback about the need for a laptop cooler would be highly
>> appreciated. TIA
>
> I never owned a laptop yet that gets very hot at all except my Toshiba
> laptops. And the only ones I owned was from the 90's and none of them
> had vents on the bottom. So those laptop fans probably won't do much for
> those anyway. So I don't think much of those fans anyway. > --
> Bill
I've had a few laptops with 'no vents on the bottom' yet the antec coolers
work fine. Even though no DIRECT air blowing in/out of bottom vent, it
still 'surrounds the bottom of the case with cool air' and dissipates the
heat. Usually the bottom of the motherboard/case is one big heat sink for
the processor and better to cool it than not.
http://www.antec.com/us/productDetai...?ProdID=75004#
http://www.antec.com/pdf/flyers/NoteBookCooler.pdf

In news:Y8KdnSDVXu0ujYLVnZ2dnUVZ_tSknZ2d@comcast.com,
- Bobb - typed on Mon, 5 May 2008 09:50:43 -0400:
> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
> news:481deb9e$0$6432$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere. com...
>> In news:C-KdnX69QeBifYDVnZ2dnUVZ_sOrnZ2d@comcast.com,
>> Hula Baloo typed on Sun, 4 May 2008 12:14:57 -0400:
> <snipped>
>>> Sitting in my lap, I doubt if the air flow is
>>> optimal, but the power supply fan never seems to be running very
>>> fast nor its output all that hot (it's pretty warm air, but you can
>>> hold your hand next to it as long as you want without discomfort).
>>> Any feedback about the need for a laptop cooler would be highly
>>> appreciated. TIA
>>
>> I never owned a laptop yet that gets very hot at all except my
>> Toshiba laptops. And the only ones I owned was from the 90's and
>> none of them had vents on the bottom. So those laptop fans probably
>> won't do much for those anyway. So I don't think much of those fans
>> anyway.
>>
> I've had a few laptops with 'no vents on the bottom' yet the antec
> coolers work fine. Even though no DIRECT air blowing in/out of bottom
> vent, it still 'surrounds the bottom of the case with cool air' and
> dissipates the heat. Usually the bottom of the motherboard/case is
> one big heat sink for the processor and better to cool it than not.
> http://www.antec.com/us/productDetai...?ProdID=75004#
> http://www.antec.com/pdf/flyers/NoteBookCooler.pdf

I looked at this design and it is ass backwards for my needs! As my
Gateway MX6124 draws air through the bottom and exhausts it out the left
side. This cooler also creates a vacuum on the laptop's bottom. Thus it
creates a negative air pressure which leaves far less airflow for the
laptop to use to cool itself.

And if the fans are powerful enough, they will force airflow backwards
against the laptop's fan. Which is a very bad idea IMHO. Not much good
can come from this. And I really would like to see the data of the CPU
and hard drive temperatures with and without this notebook cooler.

And I am sure cooling the bottom even without any vents on the laptop
helps a lot. Although when I leave my laptop on a flat surface, the CPU
temperature rises by about 20°F. Although if I raise the rear of the
laptop just an inch, it drops down to 130°F (55°F) or less. And
according to:

http://www.heatsink-guide.com/conten...=maxtemp.shtml

Thus my Celeron M 1.5GHz maximum temperature is 69° to 70°C (156° to
158°F). So I am running far less than that just by raising up the back
of the laptop just an inch. Although it runs at 150°F (66°C) when
operated as it was designed to be used. And I can tell you that at about
165°F (74°C), my laptop can suddenly lockup. I have seen this happen on
a table with a table cloth. Raising it up an inch though, the heat drops
down very quickly to 130°F.

--
Bill

"Quaoar" <quaoar@marcabfleet.net> wrote in message
news:q7KdndkMjLNTH4PVnZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> Notebook cooling pads are simply a waste of money and time. None do
> anything but cool the bottom case surface where little internal heat is
> rejected. I hope that those USB-powered cooler manufacturers are sued
> into oblivion when the notebook's USB is burned to the ground for no
> apparent benefit.
>

I would say there is definitely value to cooling the bottom side of most
laptops. That said, I agree that the USB-powered coolers have been known to
draw enough power to burn out USB ports. It happened to a friend of mine,
who was using one on his Toshiba Satellite (some 4 or 5 years old, now).

Also, two things to consider: 1) my Toshiba (also nearly 5 years old) got
*very* hot - so hot that I had to move it from my lap. It would actually
leave my legs red if I were wearing shorts, and 2) AMD mobile processors do
get hotter than their Intel counterparts. AMD seems to have overcome the
heat issue with their desktop processors, but their mobile offerings still
generate more heat than Intel.

--
Richard Carpenter

In news:SYGdnZTEpKC4CYLVnZ2dnUVZ_h6hnZ2d@comcast.com,
Richard Carpenter typed on Mon, 5 May 2008 19:11:32 -0400:
> "Quaoar" <quaoar@marcabfleet.net> wrote in message
> news:q7KdndkMjLNTH4PVnZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>
>> Notebook cooling pads are simply a waste of money and time. None do
>> anything but cool the bottom case surface where little internal heat
>> is rejected. I hope that those USB-powered cooler manufacturers are
>> sued into oblivion when the notebook's USB is burned to the ground
>> for no apparent benefit.
>
> I would say there is definitely value to cooling the bottom side of
> most laptops.

Well maybe... but the one that Bobb talked about...

In news:Y8KdnSDVXu0ujYLVnZ2dnUVZ_tSknZ2d@comcast.com,
- Bobb - typed:
>>> http://www.antec.com/us/productDetai...?ProdID=75004#
>>> http://www.antec.com/pdf/flyers/NoteBookCooler.pdf

Draws air from the top and pushes out the bottom. Which is the opposite
of natural airflow, as heat rises. And most laptops I know draws air
through the bottom and out the side. Thus at least this notebook cooler
is fighting against natural flow and against the laptop's own fan. It
might work, but it seems to make things work against each other isn't
such a good idea.

> That said, I agree that the USB-powered coolers have been known to
> draw enough power to burn out USB ports. It happened to a friend of
> mine, who was using one on his Toshiba Satellite (some 4 or 5 years
> old, now).

My tests shows on this Gateway MX6124 laptop has a drop of 20°F of the
CPU if I add rear legs to boost the rear up an inch or so. As the CPU
runs at 150°F if it is on a flat table. And 130°F with my rear leg
modification. And the critical temperature of this Celeron M is at
156°F. So I think running at 130°F is no problem at all. Why would you
want more weight and power if just boosting up the laptop to increase
airflow will do the trick too?

> Also, two things to consider: 1) my Toshiba (also nearly 5 years old)
> got *very* hot - so hot that I had to move it from my lap. It would
> actually leave my legs red if I were wearing shorts, and 2) AMD
> mobile processors do get hotter than their Intel counterparts. AMD
> seems to have overcome the heat issue with their desktop processors,
> but their mobile offerings still generate more heat than Intel.

Oh I would never buy an AMD Mobile processor. But that is just me. ;-)

--
Bill

Richard Carpenter wrote:
> "Quaoar" <quaoar@marcabfleet.net> wrote in message
> news:q7KdndkMjLNTH4PVnZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>
>> Notebook cooling pads are simply a waste of money and time. None do
>> anything but cool the bottom case surface where little internal heat
>> is rejected. I hope that those USB-powered cooler manufacturers are
>> sued into oblivion when the notebook's USB is burned to the ground for
>> no apparent benefit.
>>
>
> I would say there is definitely value to cooling the bottom side of most
> laptops. That said, I agree that the USB-powered coolers have been known
> to draw enough power to burn out USB ports. It happened to a friend of
> mine, who was using one on his Toshiba Satellite (some 4 or 5 years old,
> now).
>
> Also, two things to consider: 1) my Toshiba (also nearly 5 years old)
> got *very* hot - so hot that I had to move it from my lap. It would
> actually leave my legs red if I were wearing shorts, and 2) AMD mobile
> processors do get hotter than their Intel counterparts. AMD seems to
> have overcome the heat issue with their desktop processors, but their
> mobile offerings still generate more heat than Intel.
>

The current term is "notebook", since so many of the Pentium 4 notebooks
would burn the user into fine ash if used as a "laptop". You can verify
the idiocy of the term "laptop" by locating the ambient air inlet to the
cooling fan. Almost, without exception, the ambient air inlet to the
cooling fan is on the bottom surface where it can be blocked when placed
anywhere other than on a hard horizontal surface.

No "notebook" computers are being sold with the idea of having the unit
on one's lap or in bed since the ambient air inlet is on the bottom
surface. Burning of something - one's person, the bed coverings, the
notebook itself, can ensue if a "notebook" is used as a "laptop".

Q

Wow, what hyperbole! Here I sit in shorts with my laptop resting on my
exposed unprotected legs, and I'm not uncomfortable in the slightest. The
bottom of my 3 month old Toshiba A215-S5828 (AMD AK-55 1.8 GHz dual core
CPU) is slightly warm, but to say "Burning of something - one's person, the
bed coverings, the notebook itself, can ensue if a "notebook" is used as a
"laptop"? You have quite an imagination!


"Quaoar" <quaoar@marcabfleet.net> wrote in message
news:vMSdnVJwsYuBdr3VnZ2dnUVZ_sednZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> Richard Carpenter wrote:
>> "Quaoar" <quaoar@marcabfleet.net> wrote in message
>> news:q7KdndkMjLNTH4PVnZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>>
>>> Notebook cooling pads are simply a waste of money and time. None do
>>> anything but cool the bottom case surface where little internal heat is
>>> rejected. I hope that those USB-powered cooler manufacturers are sued
>>> into oblivion when the notebook's USB is burned to the ground for no
>>> apparent benefit.
>>>
>>
>> I would say there is definitely value to cooling the bottom side of most
>> laptops. That said, I agree that the USB-powered coolers have been known
>> to draw enough power to burn out USB ports. It happened to a friend of
>> mine, who was using one on his Toshiba Satellite (some 4 or 5 years old,
>> now).
>>
>> Also, two things to consider: 1) my Toshiba (also nearly 5 years old) got
>> *very* hot - so hot that I had to move it from my lap. It would actually
>> leave my legs red if I were wearing shorts, and 2) AMD mobile processors
>> do get hotter than their Intel counterparts. AMD seems to have overcome
>> the heat issue with their desktop processors, but their mobile offerings
>> still generate more heat than Intel.
>>
>
> The current term is "notebook", since so many of the Pentium 4 notebooks
> would burn the user into fine ash if used as a "laptop". You can verify
> the idiocy of the term "laptop" by locating the ambient air inlet to the
> cooling fan. Almost, without exception, the ambient air inlet to the
> cooling fan is on the bottom surface where it can be blocked when placed
> anywhere other than on a hard horizontal surface.
>
> No "notebook" computers are being sold with the idea of having the unit on
> one's lap or in bed since the ambient air inlet is on the bottom surface.
> Burning of something - one's person, the bed coverings, the notebook
> itself, can ensue if a "notebook" is used as a "laptop".
>
> Q

"Quaoar" <quaoar@marcabfleet.net> wrote in message
news:vMSdnVJwsYuBdr3VnZ2dnUVZ_sednZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> Richard Carpenter wrote:
>> "Quaoar" <quaoar@marcabfleet.net> wrote in message
>> news:q7KdndkMjLNTH4PVnZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>>
>>> Notebook cooling pads are simply a waste of money and time. None do
>>> anything but cool the bottom case surface where little internal heat is
>>> rejected. I hope that those USB-powered cooler manufacturers are sued
>>> into oblivion when the notebook's USB is burned to the ground for no
>>> apparent benefit.
>>>
>>
>> I would say there is definitely value to cooling the bottom side of most
>> laptops. That said, I agree that the USB-powered coolers have been known
>> to draw enough power to burn out USB ports. It happened to a friend of
>> mine, who was using one on his Toshiba Satellite (some 4 or 5 years old,
>> now).
>>
>> Also, two things to consider: 1) my Toshiba (also nearly 5 years old) got
>> *very* hot - so hot that I had to move it from my lap. It would actually
>> leave my legs red if I were wearing shorts, and 2) AMD mobile processors
>> do get hotter than their Intel counterparts. AMD seems to have overcome
>> the heat issue with their desktop processors, but their mobile offerings
>> still generate more heat than Intel.
>>
>
> The current term is "notebook", since so many of the Pentium 4 notebooks
> would burn the user into fine ash if used as a "laptop". You can verify
> the idiocy of the term "laptop" by locating the ambient air inlet to the
> cooling fan. Almost, without exception, the ambient air inlet to the
> cooling fan is on the bottom surface where it can be blocked when placed
> anywhere other than on a hard horizontal surface.
>
> No "notebook" computers are being sold with the idea of having the unit on
> one's lap or in bed since the ambient air inlet is on the bottom surface.
> Burning of something - one's person, the bed coverings, the notebook
> itself, can ensue if a "notebook" is used as a "laptop".

Sorry. You're incorrect. The term is still used and as applicable as ever,
like it or not. Also, unless you're talking about the monster-sized
laptops - which will undoubtedly run too hot for lap usage - people do still
use them on their laps. I do. My wife does. Most people I know with laptops
do as well. As a matter of fact, about the only scenario where the typical
user *wouldn't* regularly do so, is with the "desktop replacement" models -
the larger units that are just too heavy to lug around. They are usually
just desktop components crammed into a more portable, self-contained
chassis.

None of the laptops I have owned (and I've owned many) have had the air
inlets on the bottom. This is probably because I have never owned one with
more than a 15" display. I might also mention that laptops are commonly
referred to as "portables", even though the larger models clearly don't fit
that description very well. For that matter, perhaps you should take it upon
yourself to coin a new term for the 17"+ display models, as "notebook"
doesn't really work for those, either.

--
Richard Carpenter