Over the last few weeks, some marks on my laptop screen have gradually got
larger and now look like this:

http://mynzlsite.hostsnake.com/laptopscreen.htm

The marks are visible on darker backgrounds, but not on a white background.

I have been told that these marks could be the result of "image
persistence", would you agree with this suggestion?

http://compreviews.about.com/od/moni.../LCDBurnIn.htm

I have tried cleaning the screen with proper LCD cleaning fluid, but the
marks will not come off.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks

Trev

Trevs laptop wrote:
> Over the last few weeks, some marks on my laptop screen have gradually
> got larger and now look like this:
>
> http://mynzlsite.hostsnake.com/laptopscreen.htm
>
> The marks are visible on darker backgrounds, but not on a white background.
>
> I have been told that these marks could be the result of "image
> persistence", would you agree with this suggestion?
>
> http://compreviews.about.com/od/moni.../LCDBurnIn.htm
>
> I have tried cleaning the screen with proper LCD cleaning fluid, but the
> marks will not come off.
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> Trev
>
>
>
>

These look like pressure marks or scratches on the surface of the
screen. Are you sure that these are from the LCD itself? Image
persistence is temporary, and disappears in over several seconds,
maximum. There is no "burn-in" in LCD screens, arguments to the
contrary based on the black/grey bars on standard definition TV on LCD
screens notwithstanding.

Pressure marks/scratching from the keyboard when the screen is closed
has plagued several vendors. Scratching from
fingers/fingernails/pens/pencils is common also. When the notebook is
shut down, can you see these marks?

Q

"Quaoar" <quaoar@marcabfleet.net> wrote in message
news:8MWdnZsaap6TQUnanZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d@comcast.com. ..

> These look like pressure marks or scratches on the surface of the screen.
> Are you sure that these are from the LCD itself? Image persistence is
> temporary, and disappears in over several seconds, maximum. There is no
> "burn-in" in LCD screens, arguments to the contrary based on the
> black/grey bars on standard definition TV on LCD screens notwithstanding.
>
> Pressure marks/scratching from the keyboard when the screen is closed has
> plagued several vendors. Scratching from fingers/fingernails/pens/pencils
> is common also. When the notebook is shut down, can you see these marks?
>

Thanks for your reply. When the notebook is shut down, I checked very
carefully, but you can't see these marks.

It is suggested here:
http://compreviews.about.com/od/moni.../LCDBurnIn.htm that you could:

"Run the screen with a single solid color or bright white for an extended
period of time. This will cause all of the crystals to be reset at a single
color setting and should erase any previous image persistence. "

I will give this a try. I guess that pressure marks / scratching from the
keyboard when the screen is closed would result in marks that are visible on
a blank screen when the laptop is shut down?

Trev

In news:8MWdnZsaap6TQUnanZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d@comcast.com,
Quaoar typed on Mon, 10 Mar 2008 00:58:21 -0600:
> Trevs laptop wrote:
>> Over the last few weeks, some marks on my laptop screen have
>> gradually got larger and now look like this:
>>
>> http://mynzlsite.hostsnake.com/laptopscreen.htm
>>
>> The marks are visible on darker backgrounds, but not on a white
>> background. I have been told that these marks could be the result of
>> "image
>> persistence", would you agree with this suggestion?
>>
>> http://compreviews.about.com/od/moni.../LCDBurnIn.htm
>>
>> I have tried cleaning the screen with proper LCD cleaning fluid, but
>> the marks will not come off.
>>
>> Any help appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Trev
>
> These look like pressure marks or scratches on the surface of the
> screen. Are you sure that these are from the LCD itself? Image
> persistence is temporary, and disappears in over several seconds,
> maximum. There is no "burn-in" in LCD screens, arguments to the
> contrary based on the black/grey bars on standard definition TV on LCD
> screens notwithstanding.
>
> Pressure marks/scratching from the keyboard when the screen is closed
> has plagued several vendors. Scratching from
> fingers/fingernails/pens/pencils is common also. When the notebook is
> shut down, can you see these marks?
>
> Q

Oh I disagree that image persistence is very temporary on LCD screens. I
started to use clock applications which places a clock on the desktop
starting since last year. And I quickly noticed that the image
persistence can last for weeks here. Seems to be blue backgrounds, you
can see it the worst. And unlike CRT persistence, it is the dark parts
of the image that persists.

--
Bill

I do not agree that this has anything to do with image persistence.


Trevs laptop wrote:
> Over the last few weeks, some marks on my laptop screen have gradually
> got larger and now look like this:
>
> http://mynzlsite.hostsnake.com/laptopscreen.htm
>
> The marks are visible on darker backgrounds, but not on a white background.
>
> I have been told that these marks could be the result of "image
> persistence", would you agree with this suggestion?
>
> http://compreviews.about.com/od/moni.../LCDBurnIn.htm
>
> I have tried cleaning the screen with proper LCD cleaning fluid, but the
> marks will not come off.
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> Trev
>
>
>
>

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:47d59cd7$0$16678$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>I do not agree that this has anything to do with image persistence.
>
>
> Trevs laptop wrote:
>> Over the last few weeks, some marks on my laptop screen have gradually
>> got larger and now look like this:
>>
>> http://mynzlsite.hostsnake.com/laptopscreen.htm

Thanks Barry, if it's not image persistence, can anyone suggest the most
likely cause? There is no evidence of any marks on the screen when the
laptop is turned off.

Trev

Trevs laptop wrote:
>
> "Quaoar" <quaoar@marcabfleet.net> wrote in message
> news:8MWdnZsaap6TQUnanZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
>> These look like pressure marks or scratches on the surface of the
>> screen. Are you sure that these are from the LCD itself? Image
>> persistence is temporary, and disappears in over several seconds,
>> maximum. There is no "burn-in" in LCD screens, arguments to the
>> contrary based on the black/grey bars on standard definition TV on LCD
>> screens notwithstanding.
>>
>> Pressure marks/scratching from the keyboard when the screen is closed
>> has plagued several vendors. Scratching from
>> fingers/fingernails/pens/pencils is common also. When the notebook is
>> shut down, can you see these marks?
>>
>
> Thanks for your reply. When the notebook is shut down, I checked very
> carefully, but you can't see these marks.
>
> It is suggested here:
> http://compreviews.about.com/od/moni.../LCDBurnIn.htm that you could:
>
> "Run the screen with a single solid color or bright white for an
> extended period of time. This will cause all of the crystals to be reset
> at a single color setting and should erase any previous image
> persistence. "
>
> I will give this a try. I guess that pressure marks / scratching from
> the keyboard when the screen is closed would result in marks that are
> visible on a blank screen when the laptop is shut down?
>
> Trev
>

Let us know how this works out. I believe that those *are* pressure
marks, maybe against the back side of the screen cover. I have no idea
how those could have been made. Screen burn-in is at the bottom of my
list.

Could those be water marks?

Q

Quaoar wrote:
> Trevs laptop wrote:
>>
>> "Quaoar" <quaoar@marcabfleet.net> wrote in message
>> news:8MWdnZsaap6TQUnanZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>
>>> These look like pressure marks or scratches on the surface of the
>>> screen. Are you sure that these are from the LCD itself? Image
>>> persistence is temporary, and disappears in over several seconds,
>>> maximum. There is no "burn-in" in LCD screens, arguments to the
>>> contrary based on the black/grey bars on standard definition TV on
>>> LCD screens notwithstanding.
>>>
>>> Pressure marks/scratching from the keyboard when the screen is closed
>>> has plagued several vendors. Scratching from
>>> fingers/fingernails/pens/pencils is common also. When the notebook
>>> is shut down, can you see these marks?
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for your reply. When the notebook is shut down, I checked very
>> carefully, but you can't see these marks.
>>
>> It is suggested here:
>> http://compreviews.about.com/od/moni.../LCDBurnIn.htm that you could:
>>
>> "Run the screen with a single solid color or bright white for an
>> extended period of time. This will cause all of the crystals to be
>> reset at a single color setting and should erase any previous image
>> persistence. "
>>
>> I will give this a try. I guess that pressure marks / scratching from
>> the keyboard when the screen is closed would result in marks that are
>> visible on a blank screen when the laptop is shut down?
>>
>> Trev
>>
>
> Let us know how this works out. I believe that those *are* pressure
> marks, maybe against the back side of the screen cover. I have no idea
> how those could have been made. Screen burn-in is at the bottom of my
> list.
>
> Could those be water marks?
>

Thats what I thought too. Water marks. OR
I saw that on an IBM T40 that had glass cleaner get inside and under the
LCD cover. The screen darkened but never actually shorted out as the
cleanser migrated between the glass and the LCD Film. I left it alone
for a month and started it back up. The display was fine except for a
couple swirls like the one the OP shows.Probably residue from the
cleaner when it evaporated.
The only why I could see to get rid of it was to tear down the LCD
panel, which just wasn't worth the trouble.
I probably should have opened the top cover of the display and let the
thing air out immediately when it happened, but it was not a priority.


--
The RIGHT REVEREND G.G. WILLIKERS
(formerly) Monsignor Boddom

"G.G. Willikers" <noone@youknow.com> wrote in message
news:dBlBj.16637$Ch6.10616@newssvr11.news.prodigy. net...

> Thats what I thought too. Water marks. OR
> I saw that on an IBM T40 that had glass cleaner get inside and under the
> LCD cover. The screen darkened but never actually shorted out as the
> cleanser migrated between the glass and the LCD Film. I left it alone for
> a month and started it back up. The display was fine except for a couple
> swirls like the one the OP shows.Probably residue from the cleaner when it
> evaporated.
> The only why I could see to get rid of it was to tear down the LCD panel,
> which just wasn't worth the trouble.
> I probably should have opened the top cover of the display and let the
> thing air out immediately when it happened, but it was not a priority.
>
>
> --
> The RIGHT REVEREND G.G. WILLIKERS
> (formerly) Monsignor Boddom

Thanks Quoar and Right Reverend for your thoughts about water marks. I
haven't had any incidents with fluids getting on the screen, other than very
small quantities of genuine Sony LCD cleaning liquid applied on a genuine
Sony cleaning cloth!

But I have had another thought, could it be a slight "burn in" of the edges
of the flower photo I have had on the desktop for several weeks? I have now
added this photo to the following web site page:

http://mynzlsite.hostsnake.com/laptopscreen.htm

If you were to kindly revisit this site and look at the pictures of this
"sexy rexy" rose, you will see that there are four roses and the shapes of
the outer petals of these roses coincide quite closely with the shapes I
have on the picture of a blank LCD screen.

I have also run my Sony Vaio laptop with a blank white screen for about 6
hours, and I have found that these shapes have diminished a little now, and
are mainly visible only on screens that have a gray or olive background. So
I might continue with running a blank screen and see whether the shapes can
be reduced further to the point where they will no longer be a nuisance to
me.

Trev

Very small amounts of moisture that have gotten into the screen can
cause layers of plastic making up the "optical stack" to stick together
and this can produce some interesting looking artifacts on the display.

Trevs laptop wrote:
>
> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:47d59cd7$0$16678$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> I do not agree that this has anything to do with image persistence.
>>
>>
>> Trevs laptop wrote:
>>> Over the last few weeks, some marks on my laptop screen have
>>> gradually got larger and now look like this:
>>>
>>> http://mynzlsite.hostsnake.com/laptopscreen.htm
>
> Thanks Barry, if it's not image persistence, can anyone suggest the most
> likely cause? There is no evidence of any marks on the screen when the
> laptop is turned off.
>
> Trev

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:47d61001$0$12559$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Very small amounts of moisture that have gotten into the screen can cause
> layers of plastic making up the "optical stack" to stick together and this
> can produce some interesting looking artifacts on the display.

I am now quite certain that the desktop image of the roses is the cause of
the "permanent" marks on my LCD screen.

http://mynzlsite.hostsnake.com/laptopscreen.htm

The outside shape of the petals matches almost exactly the shapes on the
screen.

This couldn't really be a coincidence and may show that "burn in" can happen
on LCD monitors as discussed here:

http://compreviews.about.com/od/moni.../LCDBurnIn.htm

Trev

Trevs laptop wrote:
>
> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:47d61001$0$12559$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> Very small amounts of moisture that have gotten into the screen can
>> cause layers of plastic making up the "optical stack" to stick
>> together and this can produce some interesting looking artifacts on
>> the display.
>
> I am now quite certain that the desktop image of the roses is the cause
> of the "permanent" marks on my LCD screen.
>
> http://mynzlsite.hostsnake.com/laptopscreen.htm
>
> The outside shape of the petals matches almost exactly the shapes on the
> screen.
>
> This couldn't really be a coincidence and may show that "burn in" can
> happen on LCD monitors as discussed here:

Yes it is a coincidence.

If the marks were 'identical' to the petals it would be significant.
They are not, just roughly similar. Your brain is joining up the dots.

As OPs have remarked it looks very much like water marks.

Try to get a grip ;-)

1. Every single Windows PC has the menu bar across the bottom of the
screen displaying the same thing for as long as the PC is on.

2. Now move the menu bar to the top of the screen. Have you EVER seen
'burn in' of the menu bar at the bottom? NO.

I have used many dozens of LCD screens on laptops, PCs and for 'digital
signage' and not once seen any burn-in effects. There may well be a
theoretical possibility of 'persistence' but I suspect this is due to
manufacturing defects.

What to do about the marks?
I'm not sure... apart from recleaning the screen and / or waiting for
them to fade. Is the screen in Warranty?

Guy

In news:63pv2kF28nua5U1@mid.individual.net,
Bigguy typed on Wed, 12 Mar 2008 22:02:23 +0000:
> Trevs laptop wrote:
>>
>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:47d61001$0$12559$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> Very small amounts of moisture that have gotten into the screen can
>>> cause layers of plastic making up the "optical stack" to stick
>>> together and this can produce some interesting looking artifacts on
>>> the display.
>>
>> I am now quite certain that the desktop image of the roses is the
>> cause of the "permanent" marks on my LCD screen.
>>
>> http://mynzlsite.hostsnake.com/laptopscreen.htm
>>
>> The outside shape of the petals matches almost exactly the shapes on
>> the screen.
>>
>> This couldn't really be a coincidence and may show that "burn in" can
>> happen on LCD monitors as discussed here:
>
> Yes it is a coincidence.

No it isn't. It is real! I didn't used to believe it could never happen
to LCD monitors either. That is until I saw it myself.

> If the marks were 'identical' to the petals it would be significant.
> They are not, just roughly similar. Your brain is joining up the dots.
>
> As OPs have remarked it looks very much like water marks.
>
> Try to get a grip ;-)
>
> 1. Every single Windows PC has the menu bar across the bottom of the
> screen displaying the same thing for as long as the PC is on.
>
> 2. Now move the menu bar to the top of the screen. Have you EVER seen
> 'burn in' of the menu bar at the bottom? NO.

It doesn't work for some color combinations. I find brownish backgrounds
with very dark foreground (like a digital clock) does a nice job of
creating LCD image persistence. What happens is when you want a black
pixel, the twists the LCD straight and a 90° twist gives you bright one.
Well it seems to me with LCD image persistence, the LCD tends to like to
stay straighter like it has for weeks.

> I have used many dozens of LCD screens on laptops, PCs and for
> 'digital signage' and not once seen any burn-in effects. There may
> well be a theoretical possibility of 'persistence' but I suspect this
> is due to manufacturing defects.

I have seen it here on my external Proview monitor and my Gateway
laptop. Just download the free Multilingual Speaking Clock and set it up
for large digital display. And don't move it for a week or two. Then
give it a medium blue background and then move the clock. You should see
the old image of the LED looking segments on your monitor. Better yet,
download this Gateway wallpaper. As it really shows up with this one.
Hmm... Image Shack is down, I'll post the link later for the wallpaper.

http://www.download.com/Multilingual...-10020655.html

> What to do about the marks?
> I'm not sure... apart from recleaning the screen and / or waiting for
> them to fade. Is the screen in Warranty?
>
> Guy

No! It will fade away in time.with a different image. Just like my
Multilingual Speaking Clock image did in time.

--
Bill

In news:47d7ebc5$0$1347$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere. com,
BillW50 typed on Wed, 12 Mar 2008 09:35:50 -0500:
> I have seen it here on my external Proview monitor and my Gateway
> laptop. Just download the free Multilingual Speaking Clock and set it
> up for large digital display. And don't move it for a week or two.
> Then give it a medium blue background and then move the clock. You
> should see the old image of the LED looking segments on your monitor.
> Better yet, download this Gateway wallpaper. As it really shows up
> with this one. Hmm... Image Shack is down, I'll post the link later
> for the wallpaper.
> http://www.download.com/Multilingual...-10020655.html

Here you go... here is the Gateway wallpaper.

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9938/gatewayzc7.png

--
Bill

"Bigguy" <NoSpam******.com> wrote in message
news:63pv2kF28nua5U1@mid.individual.net...
> Trevs laptop wrote:
>>
>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:47d61001$0$12559$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> Very small amounts of moisture that have gotten into the screen can
>>> cause layers of plastic making up the "optical stack" to stick together
>>> and this can produce some interesting looking artifacts on the display.
>>
>> I am now quite certain that the desktop image of the roses is the cause
>> of the "permanent" marks on my LCD screen.
>>
>> http://mynzlsite.hostsnake.com/laptopscreen.htm
>>
>> The outside shape of the petals matches almost exactly the shapes on the
>> screen.
>>
>> This couldn't really be a coincidence and may show that "burn in" can
>> happen on LCD monitors as discussed here:
>
> Yes it is a coincidence.
>
> If the marks were 'identical' to the petals it would be significant. They
> are not, just roughly similar. Your brain is joining up the dots.
>
> As OPs have remarked it looks very much like water marks.
>
> Try to get a grip ;-)
>
> 1. Every single Windows PC has the menu bar across the bottom of the
> screen displaying the same thing for as long as the PC is on.
>
> 2. Now move the menu bar to the top of the screen. Have you EVER seen
> 'burn in' of the menu bar at the bottom? NO.
>
> I have used many dozens of LCD screens on laptops, PCs and for 'digital
> signage' and not once seen any burn-in effects. There may well be a
> theoretical possibility of 'persistence' but I suspect this is due to
> manufacturing defects.
>
> What to do about the marks?
> I'm not sure... apart from recleaning the screen and / or waiting for them
> to fade. Is the screen in Warranty?
>
> Guy

Thanks Guy for an interesting post. The screen is only just out of warranty,
but Sony has been advised of the situation and it appears that they will
look at the screen under warranty if I don't manage to get rid of the marks
myself.

I found this item on internet:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=88343

It says here that: "With some Apple LCD displays, if you leave an unchanging
image (like a login screen or the same desktop picture) on the screen for a
long period of time, you may see a faint remnant of the image even after a
new image has replaced it. This is called "persistence". "

So a desktop picture has been known to be the culprit. However, I do share
your concern about the "burn in" of the menu bar at the bottom of the
screen. Otherwise, I am not convinced that my brain is merely joining up the
dots so that the marks coincide with the outer edges of the rose petals!! To
me, the resemblance is strikingly similar, to the point where I'd have to
say that I'm now 100% convinced that the roses desktop picture are the
primary cause of the marks on my laptop screen.

I also posted this enquiry on nz.comp, and two other posters have decided
that the roses are indeed the culprit.

http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz....86bc0c06239f0d

One poster has told me that this website claims it can help with burn-in.

http://www.jscreenfix.com/

I will give this one a go and see if the burn-in marks disappear. But if the
screen is faulty, I guess similar marks could reappear before too long,
especially those at the foot of the screen. Thanks for your help with this
problem.

Trev