For years, I used one of those cigarette lighter adapters for my
laptop when I flew. It had two plugs: one for a cigarette lighter and
one for the airline outlet. It worked great, but it only worked for
that laptop. Every time I got a new laptop, I had to buy a new
adapter.

I have a new laptop and I'm wondering if there's a better way.

I see several of these "auto inverters" on the market that plug into
the cigarette lighter and generate 110 AC power, so I can just plug my
regular laptop adapter into that. They can be used for all kinds of
appliances such as portable refrigerators and the like.

At least one has an airline adapter:

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/...ku=PNOTEAC150A

Has anyone had any experience with these? Do they work? Any problems?

Thanks

--

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 04:41:14 -0500, LurfysMa <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>For years, I used one of those cigarette lighter adapters for my
>laptop when I flew. It had two plugs: one for a cigarette lighter and
>one for the airline outlet. It worked great, but it only worked for
>that laptop. Every time I got a new laptop, I had to buy a new
>adapter.
>
>I have a new laptop and I'm wondering if there's a better way.
>
>I see several of these "auto inverters" on the market that plug into
>the cigarette lighter and generate 110 AC power, so I can just plug my
>regular laptop adapter into that. They can be used for all kinds of
>appliances such as portable refrigerators and the like.
>
>At least one has an airline adapter:
>
>http://www.apc.com/resource/include/...ku=PNOTEAC150A
>
>Has anyone had any experience with these? Do they work? Any problems?
>
>Thanks

I just checked Amazon (should have done that first). They have this
same unit for sale for a lot less.

http://www.amazon.com/APC-PNOTEAC150.../dp/B000C1AZMA

Two of the feedback entries indicate that this unit will charge a
laptop only if it is not running. The airlone jack does not supply
enough watts to power the laptop and charge the battery. One guy
indicated that it would prolong the battery life and if I close it,
such as for lunch, then it will start charging.

Does anyone know how much the battery life would be extended by using
this device while using the laptop? Add 50%? Double?

--

It will work in MOST cases, but it's really clunky because then you need
both the inverter and the laptop AC adapter/charger.

There are adapters like the one that you used to have that are
"universal" and will work with most laptops by using an interchangeable
"tip" that changes the voltage, polarity and connector on the end of the
cable that plugs into the laptop. Targus is the largest manufacturer.
They even make some models that take both AC (110/220) and DC (auto/air)
as an input AND that have interchangeable tips for different laptops.

Note that sometimes you will find that officially your laptop isn't
supported, but in fact you may find that an available given tip has the
correct voltage, connector and polarity. Sometimes, the mfgr. (of the
power adapter) just hasn't gotten around to testing it with your laptop,
sometimes the current capacity isn't up to spec (but note, in such cases
you can often get away with using it (safely) ANYWAY), some of these
feature "current limiting" and the maker says that the adapter is
capable of providing too much current (capable of ... so what? ... it
won't. That's like not being willing to use a car that can go 80mph
because the speed limit is only 55mph).


LurfysMa wrote:
> For years, I used one of those cigarette lighter adapters for my
> laptop when I flew. It had two plugs: one for a cigarette lighter and
> one for the airline outlet. It worked great, but it only worked for
> that laptop. Every time I got a new laptop, I had to buy a new
> adapter.
>
> I have a new laptop and I'm wondering if there's a better way.
>
> I see several of these "auto inverters" on the market that plug into
> the cigarette lighter and generate 110 AC power, so I can just plug my
> regular laptop adapter into that. They can be used for all kinds of
> appliances such as portable refrigerators and the like.
>
> At least one has an airline adapter:
>
> http://www.apc.com/resource/include/...ku=PNOTEAC150A
>
> Has anyone had any experience with these? Do they work? Any problems?
>
> Thanks
>

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:05:03 -0500, Barry Watzman
<WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:

>It will work in MOST cases, but it's really clunky because then you need
>both the inverter and the laptop AC adapter/charger.

I don't care much about clunky if it works.

>There are adapters like the one that you used to have that are
>"universal" and will work with most laptops by using an interchangeable
>"tip" that changes the voltage, polarity and connector on the end of the
>cable that plugs into the laptop. Targus is the largest manufacturer.
>They even make some models that take both AC (110/220) and DC (auto/air)
>as an input AND that have interchangeable tips for different laptops.
>
>Note that sometimes you will find that officially your laptop isn't
>supported, but in fact you may find that an available given tip has the
>correct voltage, connector and polarity. Sometimes, the mfgr. (of the
>power adapter) just hasn't gotten around to testing it with your laptop,
>sometimes the current capacity isn't up to spec (but note, in such cases
>you can often get away with using it (safely) ANYWAY), some of these
>feature "current limiting" and the maker says that the adapter is
>capable of providing too much current (capable of ... so what? ... it
>won't. That's like not being willing to use a car that can go 80mph
>because the speed limit is only 55mph).

I did look into some of those. I even talked to a tech at one of the
companies. (I forget the name of the company. They are located in
Utah.) When I told him that I have a Dell Inspiron, he said their
adapters won't work because Dell has added some sort of "pin" to the
adapter that the PC detects and won't run if it isn't a Dell adapter.

I am completely fed up with Dell. Their service is the pits and now I
discover that they do this. Bastards. Last Dell I will ever own --
ever.

>LurfysMa wrote:
>> For years, I used one of those cigarette lighter adapters for my
>> laptop when I flew. It had two plugs: one for a cigarette lighter and
>> one for the airline outlet. It worked great, but it only worked for
>> that laptop. Every time I got a new laptop, I had to buy a new
>> adapter.
>>
>> I have a new laptop and I'm wondering if there's a better way.
>>
>> I see several of these "auto inverters" on the market that plug into
>> the cigarette lighter and generate 110 AC power, so I can just plug my
>> regular laptop adapter into that. They can be used for all kinds of
>> appliances such as portable refrigerators and the like.
>>
>> At least one has an airline adapter:
>>
>> http://www.apc.com/resource/include/...ku=PNOTEAC150A
>>
>> Has anyone had any experience with these? Do they work? Any problems?
>>
>> Thanks
>>


--

LurfysMa <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:

>I see several of these "auto inverters" on the market that plug into
>the cigarette lighter and generate 110 AC power, so I can just plug my
>regular laptop adapter into that. They can be used for all kinds of
>appliances such as portable refrigerators and the like.

I've done it in a car, not an airplane. It works, as long as the
inverter is large enough for the load. Take a look at the laptop's AC
power supply, and look at the input ratings - note that they might be
quite a bit larger than the output rating.

For example, one I have sitting here has an output rating of 19 V at
3.42 A, a total of 65 W. But the *input* rating is 100-240 V 1.6 A.
If we assume it only draws 1.6 A at 120 V, and half that at 240 V,
that's still 192 W. It probably won't draw that much continuously, but
it might take that much at startup. So you want an inverter whose
continuous output rating is well above 65 W, perhaps something like 80
W, to allow for losses in the AC adapter, and a peak output of 200 W.

And read the inverter packaging carefully. You may find that the
inverter that says "100 W" in large letters on the package is only rated
for 75 W continuous, which would be dodgy with this load.

Some computers are really power hungry, too. I have a 150 W inverter
that has no problems with either of my laptops, but it won't power a
friend's laptop. I don't know the brand, but it's one of the ones that
used a desktop Pentium IV, not a mobile processor, so the CPU dissipates
a lot and it needs more fan cooling as well. A 300 W inverter handles
it fine.

Finally, look at how the inverter cools itself. The 150 W inverter
mentioned above is 2 or 3 times the size of the laptop power supply, but
it's mounted in an aluminum case with no fan or other cooling holes.
The case provides all the cooling needed. Short of dropping it in a
puddle of water, I don't worry about this inverter - nothing bad can get
into it even if I leave it sitting on a dirty car floor. I've also got
a tiny 175 W Xantrex inverter that's about 1/3 the size of the 150 W
one, and the small size makes it great to pack for trips, but it has
cooling openings and a fan to dissipate heat from inside its plastic
package. I would worry about this one sucking in dirt, getting liquids
spilled on it, etc.

Dave

Dell indeed has implemented a scheme whereby the laptop detects that the
power supply, which would otherwise work just fine, is not a genuine
Dell power supply, and either won't work at all, or won't charge the
battery. Although I might not go as far as you and say I'd never buy
Dell for this reason, I do agree that the practice sucks.


LurfysMa wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:05:03 -0500, Barry Watzman
> <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> It will work in MOST cases, but it's really clunky because then you need
>> both the inverter and the laptop AC adapter/charger.
>
> I don't care much about clunky if it works.
>
>> There are adapters like the one that you used to have that are
>> "universal" and will work with most laptops by using an interchangeable
>> "tip" that changes the voltage, polarity and connector on the end of the
>> cable that plugs into the laptop. Targus is the largest manufacturer.
>> They even make some models that take both AC (110/220) and DC (auto/air)
>> as an input AND that have interchangeable tips for different laptops.
>>
>> Note that sometimes you will find that officially your laptop isn't
>> supported, but in fact you may find that an available given tip has the
>> correct voltage, connector and polarity. Sometimes, the mfgr. (of the
>> power adapter) just hasn't gotten around to testing it with your laptop,
>> sometimes the current capacity isn't up to spec (but note, in such cases
>> you can often get away with using it (safely) ANYWAY), some of these
>> feature "current limiting" and the maker says that the adapter is
>> capable of providing too much current (capable of ... so what? ... it
>> won't. That's like not being willing to use a car that can go 80mph
>> because the speed limit is only 55mph).
>
> I did look into some of those. I even talked to a tech at one of the
> companies. (I forget the name of the company. They are located in
> Utah.) When I told him that I have a Dell Inspiron, he said their
> adapters won't work because Dell has added some sort of "pin" to the
> adapter that the PC detects and won't run if it isn't a Dell adapter.
>
> I am completely fed up with Dell. Their service is the pits and now I
> discover that they do this. Bastards. Last Dell I will ever own --
> ever.
>
>> LurfysMa wrote:
>>> For years, I used one of those cigarette lighter adapters for my
>>> laptop when I flew. It had two plugs: one for a cigarette lighter and
>>> one for the airline outlet. It worked great, but it only worked for
>>> that laptop. Every time I got a new laptop, I had to buy a new
>>> adapter.
>>>
>>> I have a new laptop and I'm wondering if there's a better way.
>>>
>>> I see several of these "auto inverters" on the market that plug into
>>> the cigarette lighter and generate 110 AC power, so I can just plug my
>>> regular laptop adapter into that. They can be used for all kinds of
>>> appliances such as portable refrigerators and the like.
>>>
>>> At least one has an airline adapter:
>>>
>>> http://www.apc.com/resource/include/...ku=PNOTEAC150A
>>>
>>> Has anyone had any experience with these? Do they work? Any problems?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>
>

Your point is well taken but can be dealt with a bit more exactly. No
reasonable power unit has an efficiency below 60% (some will reach 80%).
so if the output is 65 watts, an input of 109 watts (65/0.6) would be
adequate. As you note, the startup surge might be [substantially]
greater, but unless it's large enough to blow a fuse (in the inverter),
the power supply and inverter will be ok on that score.

One other concern is waveform. Virtually all of the inverters put out
something other than a sine wave. Some combinations of inverter and AC
adapter/charger might not work, but the only way to know would be to try it.



Dave Martindale wrote:
> LurfysMa <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>
>> I see several of these "auto inverters" on the market that plug into
>> the cigarette lighter and generate 110 AC power, so I can just plug my
>> regular laptop adapter into that. They can be used for all kinds of
>> appliances such as portable refrigerators and the like.
>
> I've done it in a car, not an airplane. It works, as long as the
> inverter is large enough for the load. Take a look at the laptop's AC
> power supply, and look at the input ratings - note that they might be
> quite a bit larger than the output rating.
>
> For example, one I have sitting here has an output rating of 19 V at
> 3.42 A, a total of 65 W. But the *input* rating is 100-240 V 1.6 A.
> If we assume it only draws 1.6 A at 120 V, and half that at 240 V,
> that's still 192 W. It probably won't draw that much continuously, but
> it might take that much at startup. So you want an inverter whose
> continuous output rating is well above 65 W, perhaps something like 80
> W, to allow for losses in the AC adapter, and a peak output of 200 W.
>
> And read the inverter packaging carefully. You may find that the
> inverter that says "100 W" in large letters on the package is only rated
> for 75 W continuous, which would be dodgy with this load.
>
> Some computers are really power hungry, too. I have a 150 W inverter
> that has no problems with either of my laptops, but it won't power a
> friend's laptop. I don't know the brand, but it's one of the ones that
> used a desktop Pentium IV, not a mobile processor, so the CPU dissipates
> a lot and it needs more fan cooling as well. A 300 W inverter handles
> it fine.
>
> Finally, look at how the inverter cools itself. The 150 W inverter
> mentioned above is 2 or 3 times the size of the laptop power supply, but
> it's mounted in an aluminum case with no fan or other cooling holes.
> The case provides all the cooling needed. Short of dropping it in a
> puddle of water, I don't worry about this inverter - nothing bad can get
> into it even if I leave it sitting on a dirty car floor. I've also got
> a tiny 175 W Xantrex inverter that's about 1/3 the size of the 150 W
> one, and the small size makes it great to pack for trips, but it has
> cooling openings and a fan to dissipate heat from inside its plastic
> package. I would worry about this one sucking in dirt, getting liquids
> spilled on it, etc.
>
> Dave

In news:479c355b$0$24114$4c368faf@roadrunner.com,
Barry Watzman typed on Sun, 27 Jan 2008 02:40:08 -0500:
> Your point is well taken but can be dealt with a bit more exactly. No
> reasonable power unit has an efficiency below 60% (some will reach
> 80%). so if the output is 65 watts, an input of 109 watts (65/0.6)
> would be adequate. As you note, the startup surge might be
> [substantially] greater, but unless it's large enough to blow a fuse
> (in the
> inverter), the power supply and inverter will be ok on that score.
>
> One other concern is waveform. Virtually all of the inverters put out
> something other than a sine wave. Some combinations of inverter and
> AC adapter/charger might not work, but the only way to know would be
> to try it.
> Dave Martindale wrote:
>> LurfysMa <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> I see several of these "auto inverters" on the market that plug into
>>> the cigarette lighter and generate 110 AC power, so I can just plug
>>> my regular laptop adapter into that. They can be used for all kinds
>>> of appliances such as portable refrigerators and the like.
>>
>> I've done it in a car, not an airplane. It works, as long as the
>> inverter is large enough for the load. Take a look at the laptop's
>> AC power supply, and look at the input ratings - note that they
>> might be quite a bit larger than the output rating.
>>
>> For example, one I have sitting here has an output rating of 19 V at
>> 3.42 A, a total of 65 W. But the *input* rating is 100-240 V 1.6 A.
>> If we assume it only draws 1.6 A at 120 V, and half that at 240 V,
>> that's still 192 W. It probably won't draw that much continuously,
>> but it might take that much at startup. So you want an inverter
>> whose continuous output rating is well above 65 W, perhaps something
>> like 80 W, to allow for losses in the AC adapter, and a peak output
>> of 200 W. And read the inverter packaging carefully. You may find
>> that the
>> inverter that says "100 W" in large letters on the package is only
>> rated for 75 W continuous, which would be dodgy with this load.
>>
>> Some computers are really power hungry, too. I have a 150 W inverter
>> that has no problems with either of my laptops, but it won't power a
>> friend's laptop. I don't know the brand, but it's one of the ones
>> that used a desktop Pentium IV, not a mobile processor, so the CPU
>> dissipates a lot and it needs more fan cooling as well. A 300 W
>> inverter handles it fine.
>>
>> Finally, look at how the inverter cools itself. The 150 W inverter
>> mentioned above is 2 or 3 times the size of the laptop power supply,
>> but it's mounted in an aluminum case with no fan or other cooling
>> holes. The case provides all the cooling needed. Short of dropping
>> it in a puddle of water, I don't worry about this inverter - nothing
>> bad can get into it even if I leave it sitting on a dirty car floor.
>> I've also got a tiny 175 W Xantrex inverter that's about 1/3 the
>> size of the 150 W one, and the small size makes it great to pack for
>> trips, but it has cooling openings and a fan to dissipate heat from
>> inside its plastic package. I would worry about this one sucking in
>> dirt, getting liquids spilled on it, etc.
>>
>> Dave

Another thing to keep in mind about all of this... is I heard most
airlines will only allow you to suck up only 90 watts from the airline
power. So converting it twice (once through the inverter and once
through the AC adapter), you probably don't have enough left to run the
laptop anymore. The only safe bet is to suck up and to buy a Dell
airplane adapter unfortunately.

--
Bill
email: change kom to com

Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> writes:
>Your point is well taken but can be dealt with a bit more exactly. No
>reasonable power unit has an efficiency below 60% (some will reach 80%).
> so if the output is 65 watts, an input of 109 watts (65/0.6) would be
>adequate. As you note, the startup surge might be [substantially]
>greater, but unless it's large enough to blow a fuse (in the inverter),
>the power supply and inverter will be ok on that score.

Not necessarily. The friend's laptop I mentioned, which was built with
desktop components instead of mobile components (particularly the CPU),
should have been able to run on my 150 W inverter, according to the
output rating of the power supply. I don't have the number anymore,
but it wasn't outrageous. However, that inverter sometimes would not
start up that laptop. No fuse blown, but it immediately shut down from
either overload or low input voltage (while plugged into a car
cigarette lighter with the engine running) while the laptop was trying
to boot. The 300 W inverter worked every time.

There is a trick we could have tried but didn't. Removing the battery
during startup means that the AC power supply (and thus the inverter)
doesn't need to supply the startup load of the laptop plus the battery
charging current all at once. Once the laptop is up and running, its
current drops somewhat, and then the battery charge current might have
been tolerated. But the friend just decided to go with the 300 W
inverter.

Dave

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 07:24:44 +0000 (UTC), davem@cs.ubc.ca (Dave
Martindale) wrote:

>LurfysMa <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>
>>I see several of these "auto inverters" on the market that plug into
>>the cigarette lighter and generate 110 AC power, so I can just plug my
>>regular laptop adapter into that. They can be used for all kinds of
>>appliances such as portable refrigerators and the like.
>
>I've done it in a car, not an airplane. It works, as long as the
>inverter is large enough for the load. Take a look at the laptop's AC
>power supply, and look at the input ratings - note that they might be
>quite a bit larger than the output rating.
>
>For example, one I have sitting here has an output rating of 19 V at
>3.42 A, a total of 65 W. But the *input* rating is 100-240 V 1.6 A.
>If we assume it only draws 1.6 A at 120 V, and half that at 240 V,
>that's still 192 W. It probably won't draw that much continuously, but
>it might take that much at startup. So you want an inverter whose
>continuous output rating is well above 65 W, perhaps something like 80
>W, to allow for losses in the AC adapter, and a peak output of 200 W.
>
>And read the inverter packaging carefully. You may find that the
>inverter that says "100 W" in large letters on the package is only rated
>for 75 W continuous, which would be dodgy with this load.

Well, I just received my APC inverter, model number PNOTEAC150A. It
says it is 225 watts peak and 150 watts continuous.

>Some computers are really power hungry, too. I have a 150 W inverter
>that has no problems with either of my laptops, but it won't power a
>friend's laptop. I don't know the brand, but it's one of the ones that
>used a desktop Pentium IV, not a mobile processor, so the CPU dissipates
>a lot and it needs more fan cooling as well. A 300 W inverter handles
>it fine.

I ran a little test off the car battery. I let the battery run down to
95%, then plugged it into the APC inverter plugged into the car
cigarette lighter -- motor not running. The blue light on the
cigarette lighter adapter glowed blue, like it is supposed to. The
green light on the inverter glowed green like it is supposed to. The
PC power indicator showed that ti was on AC power. And in about 20
minutes, it was showing fully charged. Cool.

I then took it back inside and plugged it into the house AC after
letting it run down to about 95% again. It charged back up to 100% in
about 12 minutes. So it may be drawing more power from the house than
the inverter, but as long as it isn't draining the battery, I don't
care.

Tomorrow, I go cross country, so I'll see how it does on airline
power.

>Finally, look at how the inverter cools itself. The 150 W inverter
>mentioned above is 2 or 3 times the size of the laptop power supply, but
>it's mounted in an aluminum case with no fan or other cooling holes.
>The case provides all the cooling needed. Short of dropping it in a
>puddle of water, I don't worry about this inverter - nothing bad can get
>into it even if I leave it sitting on a dirty car floor. I've also got
>a tiny 175 W Xantrex inverter that's about 1/3 the size of the 150 W
>one, and the small size makes it great to pack for trips, but it has
>cooling openings and a fan to dissipate heat from inside its plastic
>package. I would worry about this one sucking in dirt, getting liquids
>spilled on it, etc.

This one has a fan of some sort, because it makes a soft fan sound.


--

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 20:59:47 +0000 (UTC), davem@cs.ubc.ca (Dave
Martindale) wrote:

>Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> writes:
>>Your point is well taken but can be dealt with a bit more exactly. No
>>reasonable power unit has an efficiency below 60% (some will reach 80%).
>> so if the output is 65 watts, an input of 109 watts (65/0.6) would be
>>adequate. As you note, the startup surge might be [substantially]
>>greater, but unless it's large enough to blow a fuse (in the inverter),
>>the power supply and inverter will be ok on that score.
>
>Not necessarily. The friend's laptop I mentioned, which was built with
>desktop components instead of mobile components (particularly the CPU),
>should have been able to run on my 150 W inverter, according to the
>output rating of the power supply. I don't have the number anymore,
>but it wasn't outrageous. However, that inverter sometimes would not
>start up that laptop. No fuse blown, but it immediately shut down from
>either overload or low input voltage (while plugged into a car
>cigarette lighter with the engine running) while the laptop was trying
>to boot. The 300 W inverter worked every time.

I also tried powering the laptop off and back on using the inverter.
No problems at all off the car battery. I'll see how it works on the
plane. I better take a little screwdriver so I can remove the battery
if need be.

>There is a trick we could have tried but didn't. Removing the battery
>during startup means that the AC power supply (and thus the inverter)
>doesn't need to supply the startup load of the laptop plus the battery
>charging current all at once. Once the laptop is up and running, its
>current drops somewhat, and then the battery charge current might have
>been tolerated. But the friend just decided to go with the 300 W
>inverter.
>
> Dave


--

In news:0u6tp35uqnri4mlccn14m2acpgo51v79fc@4ax.com,
LurfysMa typed on Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:23:06 -0500:
> I also tried powering the laptop off and back on using the inverter.
> No problems at all off the car battery. I'll see how it works on the
> plane. I better take a little screwdriver so I can remove the battery
> if need be.

You need a screwdriver to remove the main battery? What kind of laptop
is that? I have two laptops from the 80's like that (Epson PX-8 and
Sharp PC-4501), but not later. Also I don't believe you can take a
screwdriver on a plane since 911.

--
Bill
email: change kom to com

Re: "Also I don't believe you can take a screwdriver on a plane since 911"

I seem to recall that there is a length limit ... you can take a small
screwdriver but not a large one. Not absolutely sure about that, however.

BillW50 wrote:
> In news:0u6tp35uqnri4mlccn14m2acpgo51v79fc@4ax.com,
> LurfysMa typed on Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:23:06 -0500:
>> I also tried powering the laptop off and back on using the inverter.
>> No problems at all off the car battery. I'll see how it works on the
>> plane. I better take a little screwdriver so I can remove the battery
>> if need be.
>
> You need a screwdriver to remove the main battery? What kind of laptop
> is that? I have two laptops from the 80's like that (Epson PX-8 and
> Sharp PC-4501), but not later. Also I don't believe you can take a
> screwdriver on a plane since 911.
>