How common are dead / bad / red pixels on laptops these days, or on
particular brands of laptops / notebook PC? I am trying to decide
whether to keep or sell a notebook PC based on this phenomenon. I just
went through hell with an Acer notebook-- received it and it had a red
dot on the screen from a bad pixel, also found two other smaller bad
pixels.

OK so I returned it the next day to Acer repair, paying $22 for
shippling, only to have Acer ship it back to me saying they will not
repair it. Acer said that their policy (in a printed handout in the
returned box) is that their notebooks can have up to 4 bad pixels and
still not be covered under warranty. WTF? (it gets worse). Well I
went though hell getting an RMA to return it to Newegg for
replacement-- not easy since their new policy (along with most stores
these days including Best Buy, Office Max, etc) is NO RETURNS OR
EXCHANGES ON NOTEBOOK PCS! You open the box you own it.

It gets worse, regarding Acer. Newegg said they contacted Acer and was
told that Acer's policy is up to EIGHT bad/dead/red pixels are
"acceptable" on a LCD/notebook PC screen and will not be repaired.
WTF?! Are they insane? Who in the right mind would buy a notebook pc
and be willing to look at EIGHT RED DOTS on the screen?! Unreal.

So here is my DILEMMA: Newegg is going to ship me a replacement,
another of the same. So when I get it soon, do I (a)keep it sealed in
the box and sell it on ebay, (b)open it up and hope for no dead/red
pixels, and if there are then do I live with it and go insane or sell
it on ebay (I would certainly disclose any red/dead pixels that I know
of).

It all comes down to my question of how often do laptops have red /
dead pixels. Dead pixels are less annoying than red. Red dot dead
pixels are really unappealing.

Personally I find it shameful that manufacturers of notebook PCs and
LCD monitors think it is acceptable to stick customers with a notebok
pc or LCD monitor with even one red defective pixel, but EIGHT is
absurd. I think we have to rethink the whole buying game when picking
a notebook PC these days, given the NO RETURNS policies (it used to be
15% restocking, now that is gone as an option).

On Jan 25, 1:12 pm, "rand...@nowhere.net" <r.oeler...******.com>
wrote:
> How common are dead / bad / red pixels on laptops these days, or on
> particular brands of laptops / notebook PC? ...

I found this, useful and interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_pixel
it tells which manufacters have zero tolerance for bad pixels and do
not sell such screens, etc

On Jan 25, 1:21 pm, "rand...@nowhere.net" <r.oeler...******.com>
wrote:
> On Jan 25, 1:12 pm, "rand...@nowhere.net" <r.oeler...******.com>
> wrote:
>
> > How common are dead / bad / red pixels on laptops these days, or on
> > particular brands of laptops / notebook PC? ...
>
> I found this, useful and interesting:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_pixel
> it tells which manufacters have zero tolerance for bad pixels and do
> not sell such screens, etc

Another useful link I found -- drop menu box lets one select different
manufacturers:
http://www.behardware.com/articles/6...xels-2007.html

Very common; no retail laptop is guaranteed not to have some bad pixels.

Re: "t had a red dot on the screen from a bad pixel, also found two
other smaller bad pixels."

All pixels are the same size. All manufacturers that I know of do
consider two adjacent bad pixels (which optically merge into a larger
spot) to be a defect. However, bad always on blue pixels are far less
noticeable than green or red pixels.

Also, your post seems to concern itself only with pixels that are always
on (e.g. they show up on a solid black screen). It's also possible to
have a bad pixel that is never on (e.g. it shows up on a solid white
screen as pixel that is cyan, magenta or yellow instead of white).

A modern screen has well over 3 million sub pixels on it. If the
manufacturers didn't use any screen which had even one defect, most
screens would have to be discarded and the cost of LCD screens would
more than double. Screens are "graded" into grade A, B, C and priced
accordingly (there is more to grade than just dead pixels ... brightness
uniformity over the entire screen surface, for example, is also a
factor). Retail laptops (and desktop LCD monitors) don't use "Grade A"
panels (which are defect free, at least at the time of grading (they too
could develop defects subsequently). If they did, the cost of laptops
would be FAR higher.


randall@nowhere.net wrote:
> How common are dead / bad / red pixels on laptops these days, or on
> particular brands of laptops / notebook PC? I am trying to decide
> whether to keep or sell a notebook PC based on this phenomenon. I just
> went through hell with an Acer notebook-- received it and it had a red
> dot on the screen from a bad pixel, also found two other smaller bad
> pixels.
>
> OK so I returned it the next day to Acer repair, paying $22 for
> shippling, only to have Acer ship it back to me saying they will not
> repair it. Acer said that their policy (in a printed handout in the
> returned box) is that their notebooks can have up to 4 bad pixels and
> still not be covered under warranty. WTF? (it gets worse). Well I
> went though hell getting an RMA to return it to Newegg for
> replacement-- not easy since their new policy (along with most stores
> these days including Best Buy, Office Max, etc) is NO RETURNS OR
> EXCHANGES ON NOTEBOOK PCS! You open the box you own it.
>
> It gets worse, regarding Acer. Newegg said they contacted Acer and was
> told that Acer's policy is up to EIGHT bad/dead/red pixels are
> "acceptable" on a LCD/notebook PC screen and will not be repaired.
> WTF?! Are they insane? Who in the right mind would buy a notebook pc
> and be willing to look at EIGHT RED DOTS on the screen?! Unreal.
>
> So here is my DILEMMA: Newegg is going to ship me a replacement,
> another of the same. So when I get it soon, do I (a)keep it sealed in
> the box and sell it on ebay, (b)open it up and hope for no dead/red
> pixels, and if there are then do I live with it and go insane or sell
> it on ebay (I would certainly disclose any red/dead pixels that I know
> of).
>
> It all comes down to my question of how often do laptops have red /
> dead pixels. Dead pixels are less annoying than red. Red dot dead
> pixels are really unappealing.
>
> Personally I find it shameful that manufacturers of notebook PCs and
> LCD monitors think it is acceptable to stick customers with a notebok
> pc or LCD monitor with even one red defective pixel, but EIGHT is
> absurd. I think we have to rethink the whole buying game when picking
> a notebook PC these days, given the NO RETURNS policies (it used to be
> 15% restocking, now that is gone as an option).

On Jan 26, 9:54 am, Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOS...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
....
> factor). Retail laptops (and desktop LCD monitors) don't use "Grade A"
> panels (which are defect free, at least at the time of grading (they too
> could develop defects subsequently). If they did, the cost of laptops
> would be FAR higher.
> ..

Agreed. But in the future I will certainly be buying my laptops where
I can return them even for a 15% restocking fee (I was in error in my
original postings-- I checked at Best Buy and they have a 15%
restocking fee for returned notebook PCs). I am more than willing to
pay a 15% restocking fee, even twice, or three times, to get a
notebook without a red dot showing up where it does not belong.

randall@nowhere.net wrote:
> On Jan 26, 9:54 am, Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOS...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
> ...
>> factor). Retail laptops (and desktop LCD monitors) don't use "Grade A"
>> panels (which are defect free, at least at the time of grading (they too
>> could develop defects subsequently). If they did, the cost of laptops
>> would be FAR higher.
>> ..
>
> Agreed. But in the future I will certainly be buying my laptops where
> I can return them even for a 15% restocking fee (I was in error in my
> original postings-- I checked at Best Buy and they have a 15%
> restocking fee for returned notebook PCs). I am more than willing to
> pay a 15% restocking fee, even twice, or three times, to get a
> notebook without a red dot showing up where it does not belong.
I don't propose that one should tell you how to spend your money.
It might be cheaper to try to special order a defect-free custom laptop.
Or get a quote from a smaller dealer who'll let you examine the system
before you buy it.

One thing I've done in the past is change the background color to match
the stuck pixel. It's still there, but less annoying.
Or you can put a tiny dot of sharpie marker over the bad spot. Darkness
is less
annoying than brightness. ;-)

My favorite solution is to avoid buying a $1000 laptop that might have a
stuck pixel in favor of buying a used laptop that's $20 because
someone like you can't stand the stuck pixel.

Your problem is one of expectation. If you can't live with a system
that meets its specification, you shouldn't buy it. If you rely on
something exceeding its specification, you'll likely be disappointed
and have to bitch about it on the internet. We're here for you...

Barry Watzman wrote:
> Very common; no retail laptop is guaranteed not to have some bad pixels.
>
> Re: "t had a red dot on the screen from a bad pixel, also found two
> other smaller bad pixels."
>
> All pixels are the same size. All manufacturers that I know of do
> consider two adjacent bad pixels (which optically merge into a larger
> spot) to be a defect. However, bad always on blue pixels are far less
> noticeable than green or red pixels.
>
> Also, your post seems to concern itself only with pixels that are always
> on (e.g. they show up on a solid black screen). It's also possible to
> have a bad pixel that is never on (e.g. it shows up on a solid white
> screen as pixel that is cyan, magenta or yellow instead of white).
>
> A modern screen has well over 3 million sub pixels on it. If the
> manufacturers didn't use any screen which had even one defect, most
> screens would have to be discarded and the cost of LCD screens would
> more than double. Screens are "graded" into grade A, B, C and priced
> accordingly (there is more to grade than just dead pixels ... brightness
> uniformity over the entire screen surface, for example, is also a
> factor). Retail laptops (and desktop LCD monitors) don't use "Grade A"
> panels (which are defect free, at least at the time of grading (they too
> could develop defects subsequently). If they did, the cost of laptops
> would be FAR higher.
>
>
> randall@nowhere.net wrote:
>> How common are dead / bad / red pixels on laptops these days, or on
>> particular brands of laptops / notebook PC? I am trying to decide
>> whether to keep or sell a notebook PC based on this phenomenon. I just
>> went through hell with an Acer notebook-- received it and it had a red
>> dot on the screen from a bad pixel, also found two other smaller bad
>> pixels.
>>
>> OK so I returned it the next day to Acer repair, paying $22 for
>> shippling, only to have Acer ship it back to me saying they will not
>> repair it. Acer said that their policy (in a printed handout in the
>> returned box) is that their notebooks can have up to 4 bad pixels and
>> still not be covered under warranty. WTF? (it gets worse). Well I
>> went though hell getting an RMA to return it to Newegg for
>> replacement-- not easy since their new policy (along with most stores
>> these days including Best Buy, Office Max, etc) is NO RETURNS OR
>> EXCHANGES ON NOTEBOOK PCS! You open the box you own it.
>>
>> It gets worse, regarding Acer. Newegg said they contacted Acer and was
>> told that Acer's policy is up to EIGHT bad/dead/red pixels are
>> "acceptable" on a LCD/notebook PC screen and will not be repaired.
>> WTF?! Are they insane? Who in the right mind would buy a notebook pc
>> and be willing to look at EIGHT RED DOTS on the screen?! Unreal.
>>
>> So here is my DILEMMA: Newegg is going to ship me a replacement,
>> another of the same. So when I get it soon, do I (a)keep it sealed in
>> the box and sell it on ebay, (b)open it up and hope for no dead/red
>> pixels, and if there are then do I live with it and go insane or sell
>> it on ebay (I would certainly disclose any red/dead pixels that I know
>> of).
>>
>> It all comes down to my question of how often do laptops have red /
>> dead pixels. Dead pixels are less annoying than red. Red dot dead
>> pixels are really unappealing.
>>
>> Personally I find it shameful that manufacturers of notebook PCs and
>> LCD monitors think it is acceptable to stick customers with a notebok
>> pc or LCD monitor with even one red defective pixel, but EIGHT is
>> absurd. I think we have to rethink the whole buying game when picking
>> a notebook PC these days, given the NO RETURNS policies (it used to be
>> 15% restocking, now that is gone as an option).

Dead pixels were once a serious consideration, but I have not read of,
or have personal experience with, dead pixels on any device in perhaps
five years. I never read of dead pixels anywhere, and the reliability
of LCD screens has so vastly improved that there are no reports of dead
pixels on massive LCD HD television screens.

The OP should take the new notebook and move on.

Q

On Jan 27, 3:42 pm, Quaoar <qua...@marcabfleet.net> wrote:
...
> Dead pixels were once a serious consideration, but I have not read of,
> or have personal experience with, dead pixels on any device in perhaps
> five years. I never read of dead pixels anywhere, and the reliability
> of LCD screens has so vastly improved that there are no reports of dead
> pixels on massive LCD HD television screens.
>
> The OP should take the new notebook and move on.

I will. I am going to take a chance and open up the new notebook (the
replacement) and hope for no dead pixels. From one stat I got it seems
to be about 1% of notebooks. So the odds of getting two bad notebook
LCDs in a row would be very low (1 in 10,000). If that rare, it seems
like vendors should just add on 1% to the cost ($10 to a $1000 system)
and take returns when a buyer craps out.

They are still a very real potential issue if you insist on a perfect
screen. A LOT (not all, not necessarily even most, but a lot) of retail
low-end laptops still have a dead pixel (or several). Most people never
notice them. The size of pixels on LCD TVs is much larger, and the
whole situation is different. But some of them (some) still have dead
pixels also.

Quaoar wrote:

>
> Dead pixels were once a serious consideration, but I have not read of,
> or have personal experience with, dead pixels on any device in perhaps
> five years. I never read of dead pixels anywhere, and the reliability
> of LCD screens has so vastly improved that there are no reports of dead
> pixels on massive LCD HD television screens.
>
> The OP should take the new notebook and move on.
>
> Q

In news:479d29aa$0$8645$4c368faf@roadrunner.com,
Barry Watzman typed on Sun, 27 Jan 2008 20:02:29 -0500:
> They are still a very real potential issue if you insist on a perfect
> screen. A LOT (not all, not necessarily even most, but a lot) of
> retail low-end laptops still have a dead pixel (or several). Most
> people never notice them. The size of pixels on LCD TVs is much
> larger, and the whole situation is different. But some of them
> (some) still have dead pixels also.

I purchased a laptop from eBay that doesn't have dead pixels. But I
don't know what to call it. As it is like it is blurry or a slightly
different contrast about the size of a fingerprint in the middle of the
screen. I rarely notice it unless I play a video in that spot or
something. And I have no idea what it is caused by. Good thing it
doesn't really bother me, eh?

--
Bill
email: change kom to com

BillW50 wrote:
> In news:479d29aa$0$8645$4c368faf@roadrunner.com,
> Barry Watzman typed on Sun, 27 Jan 2008 20:02:29 -0500:
>> They are still a very real potential issue if you insist on a perfect
>> screen. A LOT (not all, not necessarily even most, but a lot) of
>> retail low-end laptops still have a dead pixel (or several). Most
>> people never notice them. The size of pixels on LCD TVs is much
>> larger, and the whole situation is different. But some of them
>> (some) still have dead pixels also.
>
> I purchased a laptop from eBay that doesn't have dead pixels. But I
> don't know what to call it. As it is like it is blurry or a slightly
> different contrast about the size of a fingerprint in the middle of the
> screen. I rarely notice it unless I play a video in that spot or
> something. And I have no idea what it is caused by. Good thing it
> doesn't really bother me, eh?
>
That's a very common problem. Often caused by part of the keyboard
pressing on
or even abrading the screen. Eraser mouse is one of the worst offenders.
mike

--
Return address is VALID!

In news:BZKnj.10235$fs4.6091@trnddc02,
mike typed on Tue, 29 Jan 2008 19:17:53 GMT:
> BillW50 wrote:
>> In news:479d29aa$0$8645$4c368faf@roadrunner.com,
>> Barry Watzman typed on Sun, 27 Jan 2008 20:02:29 -0500:
>>> They are still a very real potential issue if you insist on a
>>> perfect screen. A LOT (not all, not necessarily even most, but a
>>> lot) of retail low-end laptops still have a dead pixel (or
>>> several). Most people never notice them. The size of pixels on
>>> LCD TVs is much larger, and the whole situation is different. But
>>> some of them (some) still have dead pixels also.
>>
>> I purchased a laptop from eBay that doesn't have dead pixels. But I
>> don't know what to call it. As it is like it is blurry or a slightly
>> different contrast about the size of a fingerprint in the middle of
>> the screen. I rarely notice it unless I play a video in that spot or
>> something. And I have no idea what it is caused by. Good thing it
>> doesn't really bother me, eh?
>>
> That's a very common problem. Often caused by part of the keyboard
> pressing on
> or even abrading the screen. Eraser mouse is one of the worst
> offenders. mike

Thanks Mike. :)

--
Bill
email: change kom to com