I am considering buying my first laptop but I am a bit bewildered by all
the brands and choices out there. By now I was able to narrow it down
to a 14" or 15" HP Pavilion brand, probably with AMD Turion 64 X2 dual
core CPU, in the $900 to $1,100 range with 2 GB memory. A few of the
spec details, however, that I am interested in, are not spelled out on
HP's Web site, so I wonder if some of you HP notebook owners with
current models could fill the gap for me.

Do these notebooks have a BIOS that allows booting from a USB thumb
drive?

Does the User Manual list all the CD formats the optical drive can read
and write? The specs usually just mention the DVD options. I am
specifically interested in models that can read and write CD+G (Karaoke)
format. I assume that if one particular HP model can do that format than
probably others might as well, as the probably use the same drives in
most of their laptops.

Lastly, who provides Windows updates, HP or Microsoft? It used to be
that one needed to get OS updates from the vendor on pre-loaded systems.
That, unfortunately, also meant being left behind from the most current
MS updates.

Thanks for any help you can give me on these issues.

Rudy

HP would not be my first choice; the hardware is ok, but they have been
less user friendly over time than some other vendors (they are not the
worst, but there are better). Personally I'd prefer Lenovo, Dell and
Toshiba to HP. I was also very favorably impressed by a Gateway that I
bought this past summer.

Don't know if the bios will boot from a USB flash drive or not. These
days, it probably will (most now do), but it's still a model-by-model
issue to some degree.

Pretty much all of today's drives that have DVD burners will burn pretty
much everything. This is more a function of the drive than of the
laptop, and most laptop makers use different drives (from different
manufacturers) in different production runs of the same laptop model.
But the standard today is to use drives that burn pretty much all
formats of everything (at least of CD and DVD ... R and RW, + and -,
single and dual layer). The only thing you won't always find is support
for "Lightscribe" (by that or another name with a different trademark).

Windows updates (Windows itself, e.g. literally "Windows Update") is
generic from Microsoft. But if you need support (e.g. telephone
support), that still comes from the OEM (laptop vendor), and all driver
support and updates also comes from the hardware vendor.


R. P. wrote:
> I am considering buying my first laptop but I am a bit bewildered by all
> the brands and choices out there. By now I was able to narrow it down
> to a 14" or 15" HP Pavilion brand, probably with AMD Turion 64 X2 dual
> core CPU, in the $900 to $1,100 range with 2 GB memory. A few of the
> spec details, however, that I am interested in, are not spelled out on
> HP's Web site, so I wonder if some of you HP notebook owners with
> current models could fill the gap for me.
>
> Do these notebooks have a BIOS that allows booting from a USB thumb drive?
>
> Does the User Manual list all the CD formats the optical drive can read
> and write? The specs usually just mention the DVD options. I am
> specifically interested in models that can read and write CD+G (Karaoke)
> format. I assume that if one particular HP model can do that format than
> probably others might as well, as the probably use the same drives in
> most of their laptops.
>
> Lastly, who provides Windows updates, HP or Microsoft? It used to be
> that one needed to get OS updates from the vendor on pre-loaded systems.
> That, unfortunately, also meant being left behind from the most current
> MS updates.
>
> Thanks for any help you can give me on these issues.
>
> Rudy

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:
> HP would not be my first choice; the hardware is ok, but they have
> been less user friendly over time than some other vendors (they are
> not the worst, but there are better).

Thanks for the detailed reply, Barry. I think what you wrote about
HP service might be right, based on my pre-sale inquiry experience with
them through their Web site. After bouncing my email to different
outfits, with each bounce sending me an automated reply of that fact, I
got an actual human email response asking me for the model, product,
serial number, purchase date, etc. as if he was answering a post-sale
question. This guy obviously did not even bother to read my original
question, so what am I to expect from them in the future?

> Personally I'd prefer Lenovo, Dell and Toshiba to HP. I was also very
> favorably impressed by a Gateway that I bought this past summer.

Well, I've looked at Lenovo but (despite noe being Chinese owned)
they are some of the most expensive notebooks around and even so, most
models still come only 1 GB memory. So I quickly eliminated them from
consideration. However, I might take another look at Toshiba, Dell,
Gateway or even Sony. Do you have any good info on Fujitsu, Asus or Acer
notebooks?

> Don't know if the bios will boot from a USB flash drive or not. These
> days, it probably will (most now do), but it's still a model-by-model
> issue to some degree.

That's true, that's why I try to field some pre-sale questions about
things like that and I hope eventually I find a notebook maker who
actually takes such questions seriously. Otherwise I just hope that
somebody here reading my question already has that type of laptop and
can answer from personal experience.

> Pretty much all of today's drives that have DVD burners will burn
> pretty much everything. This is more a function of the drive than of
> the laptop, and most laptop makers use different drives (from
> different manufacturers) in different production runs of the same
> laptop model. But the standard today is to use drives that burn pretty
> much all formats of everything (at least of CD and DVD ... R and RW, +
> and -, single and dual layer). The only thing you won't always find
> is support for "Lightscribe" (by that or another name with a different
> trademark).

One of the reasons I was looking at HP was the Lightscribe feature
and the fact that I read somewhere that HP models seem to use an optical
drive that can read and write CD+G tracks. But I wanted it confirmed.

> Windows updates (Windows itself, e.g. literally "Windows Update") is
> generic from Microsoft. But if you need support (e.g. telephone
> support), that still comes from the OEM (laptop vendor), and all
> driver support and updates also comes from the hardware vendor.

OK, I can live with that.

Thanks again,
Rudy

NOT SONY. Worse than HP.

Lightscribe (whatever it's called) is kind of a gimmick. It works, but
it requires special, expensive media and it is very slow. Very few
people actually use it on a regular basis.


R. P. wrote:
> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>> HP would not be my first choice; the hardware is ok, but they have
>> been less user friendly over time than some other vendors (they are
>> not the worst, but there are better).
>
> Thanks for the detailed reply, Barry. I think what you wrote about HP
> service might be right, based on my pre-sale inquiry experience with
> them through their Web site. After bouncing my email to different
> outfits, with each bounce sending me an automated reply of that fact, I
> got an actual human email response asking me for the model, product,
> serial number, purchase date, etc. as if he was answering a post-sale
> question. This guy obviously did not even bother to read my original
> question, so what am I to expect from them in the future?
>
>> Personally I'd prefer Lenovo, Dell and Toshiba to HP. I was also very
>> favorably impressed by a Gateway that I bought this past summer.
>
> Well, I've looked at Lenovo but (despite noe being Chinese owned)
> they are some of the most expensive notebooks around and even so, most
> models still come only 1 GB memory. So I quickly eliminated them from
> consideration. However, I might take another look at Toshiba, Dell,
> Gateway or even Sony. Do you have any good info on Fujitsu, Asus or Acer
> notebooks?
>
>> Don't know if the bios will boot from a USB flash drive or not. These
>> days, it probably will (most now do), but it's still a model-by-model
>> issue to some degree.
>
> That's true, that's why I try to field some pre-sale questions about
> things like that and I hope eventually I find a notebook maker who
> actually takes such questions seriously. Otherwise I just hope that
> somebody here reading my question already has that type of laptop and
> can answer from personal experience.
>
>> Pretty much all of today's drives that have DVD burners will burn
>> pretty much everything. This is more a function of the drive than of
>> the laptop, and most laptop makers use different drives (from
>> different manufacturers) in different production runs of the same
>> laptop model. But the standard today is to use drives that burn pretty
>> much all formats of everything (at least of CD and DVD ... R and RW, +
>> and -, single and dual layer). The only thing you won't always find
>> is support for "Lightscribe" (by that or another name with a different
>> trademark).
>
> One of the reasons I was looking at HP was the Lightscribe feature
> and the fact that I read somewhere that HP models seem to use an optical
> drive that can read and write CD+G tracks. But I wanted it confirmed.
>
>> Windows updates (Windows itself, e.g. literally "Windows Update") is
>> generic from Microsoft. But if you need support (e.g. telephone
>> support), that still comes from the OEM (laptop vendor), and all
>> driver support and updates also comes from the hardware vendor.
>
> OK, I can live with that.
>
> Thanks again,
> Rudy

Hi Rudy,

I think HP laptops are pretty good - the only thing is the AMD Turion
64 X2 dual core. Personally, I'd prefer an Intel dual core - I think
Intel makes slightly better chips.

To answer your other questions:
1) The notebook BIOs these days usually allow you to boot from the DVD
drive or USB, so I don't think you need to worry there.
2) Again, CD and DVD drives in the very latest laptops usually read
both + and - types of CDs and DVDs.
3) I believe Microsoft would give you the Windows updates once you
purchase the machine from HP.

Hope this helps and do let me know if you have more questions.


Regards,
Gary Hendricks
http://www.best-laptop-guide.com

<gary_hendricks_mail******.com> wrote:
> Hi Rudy,
>
> I think HP laptops are pretty good - the only thing is the AMD Turion
> 64 X2 dual core. Personally, I'd prefer an Intel dual core - I think
> Intel makes slightly better chips.

Hm, that's interesting as one can hear the Intel/AMD argument both ways.
One of the reasons I lean toward AMD is because it's a true 64-bit
processor and even though initially I would use it in 32-bit mode, I
think soon most apps will be 64-bit and then I would be ready for it. I
am also planning to dual-boot to Linux where I could already use the
64-bit capability.

> To answer your other questions:
> 1) The notebook BIOs these days usually allow you to boot from the DVD
> drive or USB, so I don't think you need to worry there.

That's good.

> 2) Again, CD and DVD drives in the very latest laptops usually read
> both + and - types of CDs and DVDs.

My question was about the CDG (or CD+G) capability which is not the same
that you answered.

> 3) I believe Microsoft would give you the Windows updates once you
> purchase the machine from HP.

That's good, too. My major draw to HP is that they seem to have a lot
of different models and often at more attractive prices for the same
config than many others. I feel I am more likely to find the features I
am looking for in an HP notebook than in others. But I am concerned
about their support. I also see some Asus notebooks I like but I am even
more concerned about support from them.

> Hope this helps and do let me know if you have more questions.

Yes it does help and thanks for it.

Rudy

R. P. wrote:
> <gary_hendricks_mail******.com> wrote:
>> Hi Rudy,
>>
>> I think HP laptops are pretty good - the only thing is the AMD Turion
>> 64 X2 dual core. Personally, I'd prefer an Intel dual core - I think
>> Intel makes slightly better chips.
>
> Hm, that's interesting as one can hear the Intel/AMD argument both
> ways. One of the reasons I lean toward AMD is because it's a true
> 64-bit processor and even though initially I would use it in 32-bit
> mode, I think soon most apps will be 64-bit and then I would be ready
> for it. I am also planning to dual-boot to Linux where I could
> already use the 64-bit capability.
>
>> To answer your other questions:
>> 1) The notebook BIOs these days usually allow you to boot from the
>> DVD drive or USB, so I don't think you need to worry there.
>
> That's good.
>
>> 2) Again, CD and DVD drives in the very latest laptops usually read
>> both + and - types of CDs and DVDs.
>
> My question was about the CDG (or CD+G) capability which is not the
> same that you answered.
>
>> 3) I believe Microsoft would give you the Windows updates once you
>> purchase the machine from HP.
>
> That's good, too. My major draw to HP is that they seem to have a lot
> of different models and often at more attractive prices for the same
> config than many others. I feel I am more likely to find the features
> I am looking for in an HP notebook than in others. But I am concerned
> about their support. I also see some Asus notebooks I like but I am
> even more concerned about support from them.
>
>> Hope this helps and do let me know if you have more questions.
>
> Yes it does help and thanks for it.
>
> Rudy
I have bought a Toshiba (wife), Dell (daughter), Macbook w/intel (youngest
daughter) all in the last 2 years. I myself build my own computers. I just
purchased a HP on sale($699) at Best Buy after Christmas w/AMD Turion 64 x2
1.9ghz , 160gb 5400rpm sata hdd,buit-in webcam w/mic, altec lansing
speakers, a touchpad I can actually use without difficulty, Pioneer Dvd
writer w/lightscribe (which I won't use), express remote control unit, dual
headphone jacks, 5-1 ricoh card reader, 1 gig of ram, which I replaced a
week later with Corsair 4gb $85(Newegg.com) Came with Vista home premium,
tried to downgrade to XP, but it has a nVidia chipset and the Vista drivers
were superior, so I spent a few hours tweaking and I love this notebook! I
use it for mostly photoshop in the comfort of my living room. To each their
own. My advice to you is find a laptop, touch it, feel it, and read as much
about it as you can. Reviews from real owners probably mean more than
most.Owners who have owned it longer the better. Remember companies do
improve and some companies get wealthy and get worse. The only problems I
have had with any of these brands was the battery made by Sony in the
Toshiba whose customer service was excellent. The mac to me was the most
overpriced but the operating sytem came with so much more software than
Windows offers. I did put on "bootcamp" and my daughter runs windows XP for
games and IM.

Hi fenway55,

I read with interest your attempt to 'downgrade' Vista home premium to
XP. I had the same experience when I got my home Compaq laptop. Vista
is in my opinion, an inferior OS to XP. Many, many people I know are
dissatisfied with Vista and have attempted a downgrade to XP.


Best Regards,
Gary Hendricks
http://www.best-laptop-guide.com

gary_hendricks_mail******.com wrote:
> Hi fenway55,
>
> I read with interest your attempt to 'downgrade' Vista home premium to
> XP. I had the same experience when I got my home Compaq laptop. Vista
> is in my opinion, an inferior OS to XP. Many, many people I know are
> dissatisfied with Vista and have attempted a downgrade to XP.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Gary Hendricks
> http://www.best-laptop-guide.com

David S Rubin wrote:
> gary_hendricks_mail******.com wrote:
>> Hi fenway55,
>>
>> I read with interest your attempt to 'downgrade' Vista home premium
>> to XP. I had the same experience when I got my home Compaq laptop.
>> Vista is in my opinion, an inferior OS to XP. Many, many people I
>> know are dissatisfied with Vista and have attempted a downgrade to
>> XP.
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Gary Hendricks
>> http://www.best-laptop-guide.com
>
> Hi Gary,
> I basically prepared by reading what others had gone thru to
> downgrade. They were happy, but when I did diagnostic tests on my
> laptop, it was definitely running much slower after my initial
> tweaking in Vista. All the other laptops I bought, I made sure they
> had Xp on it. The Dell I ordered thru business, so my daughter could
> still have XP. She insisted on the brand. Back to downgrading, I find
> with Hp/Compaq, even as far back as Windows 98se, working on their
> towers, that if you formatted the hard drive and used a real copy of
> windows, to skip all their pre-install crapware, you had to do some
> real digging for drivers. in the end it was worth it. The average
> person probably wouldn't or couldn't do it. This laptop isn't my main
> computer and it's giving me a chance to learn to tweak Vista,which
> for me is fun. A lot of people don't have that luxury. By eliminating
> a few resource hogs and some features I have absolutely no use for,
> it hasn't taken me long to really speed it up. Networking to other
> computers is easy, it's when you want to network to Vista that's a
> pain, unless you go public. I have 6 computers in my own house and
> this one is the only one that hates to share :o) You can contact
> Compaq and if your model started as XP then went to Vista, I'm sure
> they'll sell you the restore image. They float on the torrents also,
> but then again you have to search for the rest of your drivers. If
> you do that, before you downgrade. Backup all your drivers so you'll
> remember wha'll you have. In my case the chipset has the ethernet
> driver and without that you can't get online to get the rest. Or you
> need to know your wireless adapter. I used google and had everthing
> but one difference. I have a Nvidia 7150m/640m chipset and in Xp they
> only offered 7150m/630m. It installed fine but the performance was
> just not there and nVidia isn't allowed to offer laptop drivers to
> custermers. You have to go through the manufactuer of your laptop. I
> found a lot of the Hp software useless and resource hogs also. I
> then went and did registry tweaks to have Vista behave the way I
> wanted it to. Hope that helps. I can give you some links I found, but
> they were for my general model HP. I'm sure you'll find them for
> Compaq models.