My question is about the digital audio output of a
Creative Sound Blaster Live External sound card.

Reviews and enigmatic evidence on the Creative
website infer that you may not get the data transfer
necessary for a 5.1 sound from a DVD movie.

I want to output the DD5.1 or DTS5.1 of a DVD from
my laptop to the digital audio input of a Digital Audio Receiver.
Does anyone know if this sound card can provide this?
Reviews I have read indicate to me it may be limited to 2.1
digital output of a 5.1 source.

The 5.1 that is glowingly referred to might only be a pretend
versions for games or people might not know the difference
between 2.1 sound spread further and actual 5.1.

The website even suggests that the USB1.1 might have
limitations. Why is it using USB1.1 instead of 2.0?

"Barrabas" <self@here.org> wrote in message news:eog0bm$3ic$1@aioe.org...
> My question is about the digital audio output of a
> Creative Sound Blaster Live External sound card.
>
> Reviews and enigmatic evidence on the Creative
> website infer that you may not get the data transfer
> necessary for a 5.1 sound from a DVD movie.
>
> I want to output the DD5.1 or DTS5.1 of a DVD from
> my laptop to the digital audio input of a Digital Audio Receiver.
> Does anyone know if this sound card can provide this?
> Reviews I have read indicate to me it may be limited to 2.1
> digital output of a 5.1 source.
>
> The 5.1 that is glowingly referred to might only be a pretend
> versions for games or people might not know the difference
> between 2.1 sound spread further and actual 5.1.
>
> The website even suggests that the USB1.1 might have
> limitations. Why is it using USB1.1 instead of 2.0?
>

You neglected to mention which Sound Blaster card that you have. The
facilities vary greatly between models particularly the digital inputs an
outputs. Whereas some cards will only input and output standard 2.0 digital
audio, some of the other cards will accept Dolby 5.1 or even DTS 5.1 audio,
and some will output the same.

USB1 while it can operate well at the lower digital bit rates, can be
problematic if the USB bus has more than a few devices on it. This is
because the audio card operates in isochronous mode on the USB bus, which is
supposed to give a guaranteed bandwidth, but the guarantee is only valid at
enumeration time and not subsequently. One big problem that used to
generate a FAQ when USB1 was the norm is that if the host cannot guarantee
the bandwidth at enumeration time, then the sound device simply does not get
enumerated - no error message - nothing.

If you have the ability to use USB2, then you are strongly advised to do so.
This usually requires a driver and firmware update that needs to be
downloaded from Creative's website. The sound device will only use USB1
until it is updated. If the bandwidth cannot be guaranteed to a USB2
device, then the host has the ability to reconfigure the peripheral into
bulk mode where no guarantees are required.

"M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
news:45ac81fc$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>
> "Barrabas" <self@here.org> wrote in message news:eog0bm$3ic$1@aioe.org...
>> My question is about the digital audio output of a
>> Creative Sound Blaster Live External sound card.
>>
>> Reviews and enigmatic evidence on the Creative
>> website infer that you may not get the data transfer
>> necessary for a 5.1 sound from a DVD movie.
>>
>> I want to output the DD5.1 or DTS5.1 of a DVD from
>> my laptop to the digital audio input of a Digital Audio Receiver.
>> Does anyone know if this sound card can provide this?
>> Reviews I have read indicate to me it may be limited to 2.1
>> digital output of a 5.1 source.
>>
>> The 5.1 that is glowingly referred to might only be a pretend
>> versions for games or people might not know the difference
>> between 2.1 sound spread further and actual 5.1.
>>
>> The website even suggests that the USB1.1 might have
>> limitations. Why is it using USB1.1 instead of 2.0?
>>
>
> You neglected to mention which Sound Blaster card that you have. The
> facilities vary greatly between models particularly the digital inputs an
> outputs. Whereas some cards will only input and output standard 2.0
> digital audio, some of the other cards will accept Dolby 5.1 or even DTS
> 5.1 audio, and some will output the same.
>
> USB1 while it can operate well at the lower digital bit rates, can be
> problematic if the USB bus has more than a few devices on it. This is
> because the audio card operates in isochronous mode on the USB bus, which
> is supposed to give a guaranteed bandwidth, but the guarantee is only
> valid at enumeration time and not subsequently. One big problem that used
> to generate a FAQ when USB1 was the norm is that if the host cannot
> guarantee the bandwidth at enumeration time, then the sound device simply
> does not get enumerated - no error message - nothing.
>
> If you have the ability to use USB2, then you are strongly advised to do
> so. This usually requires a driver and firmware update that needs to be
> downloaded from Creative's website. The sound device will only use USB1
> until it is updated. If the bandwidth cannot be guaranteed to a USB2
> device, then the host has the ability to reconfigure the peripheral into
> bulk mode where no guarantees are required.

I did mention it. I don't have it which is why I don't know the answer.
Creative Sound Blaster Live External 24-bit USB.
It is only USB 1.1. So it supposedly is limited in its playback of 24 bit
audio.
But there are indications it might be further limited. One opinion I saw
said it
kept reverting to 2.1 from 5.1 at the digital audio out. It is only
hearsay, but the only
info I have.


>
>

"Barrabas" <self@here.org> wrote in message news:eoi29q$k60$1@aioe.org...
>
> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:45ac81fc$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>>
>> "Barrabas" <self@here.org> wrote in message news:eog0bm$3ic$1@aioe.org...
>>> My question is about the digital audio output of a
>>> Creative Sound Blaster Live External sound card.
>>>
>>> Reviews and enigmatic evidence on the Creative
>>> website infer that you may not get the data transfer
>>> necessary for a 5.1 sound from a DVD movie.
>>>
>>> I want to output the DD5.1 or DTS5.1 of a DVD from
>>> my laptop to the digital audio input of a Digital Audio Receiver.
>>> Does anyone know if this sound card can provide this?
>>> Reviews I have read indicate to me it may be limited to 2.1
>>> digital output of a 5.1 source.
>>>
>>> The 5.1 that is glowingly referred to might only be a pretend
>>> versions for games or people might not know the difference
>>> between 2.1 sound spread further and actual 5.1.
>>>
>>> The website even suggests that the USB1.1 might have
>>> limitations. Why is it using USB1.1 instead of 2.0?
>>>
>>
>> You neglected to mention which Sound Blaster card that you have. The
>> facilities vary greatly between models particularly the digital inputs an
>> outputs. Whereas some cards will only input and output standard 2.0
>> digital audio, some of the other cards will accept Dolby 5.1 or even DTS
>> 5.1 audio, and some will output the same.
>>
>> USB1 while it can operate well at the lower digital bit rates, can be
>> problematic if the USB bus has more than a few devices on it. This is
>> because the audio card operates in isochronous mode on the USB bus, which
>> is supposed to give a guaranteed bandwidth, but the guarantee is only
>> valid at enumeration time and not subsequently. One big problem that
>> used to generate a FAQ when USB1 was the norm is that if the host cannot
>> guarantee the bandwidth at enumeration time, then the sound device simply
>> does not get enumerated - no error message - nothing.
>>
>> If you have the ability to use USB2, then you are strongly advised to do
>> so. This usually requires a driver and firmware update that needs to be
>> downloaded from Creative's website. The sound device will only use USB1
>> until it is updated. If the bandwidth cannot be guaranteed to a USB2
>> device, then the host has the ability to reconfigure the peripheral into
>> bulk mode where no guarantees are required.
>
> I did mention it. I don't have it which is why I don't know the answer.
> Creative Sound Blaster Live External 24-bit USB.
> It is only USB 1.1. So it supposedly is limited in its playback of 24 bit
> audio.
> But there are indications it might be further limited. One opinion I saw
> said it
> kept reverting to 2.1 from 5.1 at the digital audio out. It is only
> hearsay, but the only
> info I have.
>

You're right you did and I missed it. This is a budget model that supports
USB1.1 only and does not feature 5.1 over the digital connections (and I
don't believe it supports DTS either).

The Audigy 2 NX which looks similar does USB2 (after firmware and driver
upgrade), but still does not do 5.1 over the digital connections - nor does
it support DTS. Also 7.1 through analogue outputs.

The Audigy 2 ZS is the top of the line product of this type which supports
USB2, and 5.1 and 7.1 digital input and output in both Dolby Digital; Dolby
Digital EX; DTS and DTS-ES. It also features video capture hardware (it is
realy aimed at the video editing market) and a USB hub and 7.1 analogue
output. The only thing missing is software to play .DTS files (Does anyone
know of any).

There is also the Audigy 2 ZS Notebook which fits most of that last product
onto a PCMCIA card for a laptop. Gone is the video hardware and the USB
hub, but pretty well everything else is there.

Both of the ZS products are THX certified, and come with software to adjust
the perceived position of the speakers from their real position.

"M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
news:45acb1e4$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>
> There is also the Audigy 2 ZS Notebook which fits most of that last
> product onto a PCMCIA card for a laptop. Gone is the video hardware and
> the USB hub, but pretty well everything else is there.
>

I should have mentioned that this is a Cardbus card and requires a 32 bit
PCMCIA slot. It won't work (or indeed fit into) a 16 bit PC-card slot.

"M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
news:45acb537$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>
> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:45acb1e4$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>>
>> There is also the Audigy 2 ZS Notebook which fits most of that last
>> product onto a PCMCIA card for a laptop. Gone is the video hardware and
>> the USB hub, but pretty well everything else is there.
>>
>
> I should have mentioned that this is a Cardbus card and requires a 32 bit
> PCMCIA slot. It won't work (or indeed fit into) a 16 bit PC-card slot.

My other concerns are: Audigy 2 NX Notebook appears
to be a deprecated product on the creative site. Looking up
product manuals, they have it for this under 'archived'.

And the ZS PCMCIA card: I am concerned about radio interference when
using analog input.

I am surprised 5.1 digital is not possible with both 'Live' and NX Notebook.
The manuals would have you believe it can be done.


>
>

"Barrabas" <self@here.org> wrote in message news:eojvjj$4ku$1@aioe.org...
>
> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:45acb537$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>>
>> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:45acb1e4$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>>>
>>> There is also the Audigy 2 ZS Notebook which fits most of that last
>>> product onto a PCMCIA card for a laptop. Gone is the video hardware and
>>> the USB hub, but pretty well everything else is there.
>>>
>>
>> I should have mentioned that this is a Cardbus card and requires a 32 bit
>> PCMCIA slot. It won't work (or indeed fit into) a 16 bit PC-card slot.
>
> My other concerns are: Audigy 2 NX Notebook appears
> to be a deprecated product on the creative site. Looking up
> product manuals, they have it for this under 'archived'.
>

Haven't played with this one, though I wouldn't be surprised.

> And the ZS PCMCIA card: I am concerned about radio interference when
> using analog input.
>

I have had no problems with this card. My main worry was power supply noise
superimposed on the audio. But it just doesn't seem to happen.

> I am surprised 5.1 digital is not possible with both 'Live' and NX
> Notebook.
> The manuals would have you believe it can be done.
>

These seem to be earlier products that lack some of the later features.

"M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
news:45add07c$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>
> "Barrabas" <self@here.org> wrote in message news:eojvjj$4ku$1@aioe.org...
>>
>> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:45acb537$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>>>
>>> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:45acb1e4$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>>>>
>>>> There is also the Audigy 2 ZS Notebook which fits most of that last
>>>> product onto a PCMCIA card for a laptop. Gone is the video hardware
>>>> and the USB hub, but pretty well everything else is there.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I should have mentioned that this is a Cardbus card and requires a 32
>>> bit PCMCIA slot. It won't work (or indeed fit into) a 16 bit PC-card
>>> slot.
>>
>> My other concerns are: Audigy 2 NX Notebook appears
>> to be a deprecated product on the creative site. Looking up
>> product manuals, they have it for this under 'archived'.
>>
>
> Haven't played with this one, though I wouldn't be surprised.
>
>> And the ZS PCMCIA card: I am concerned about radio interference when
>> using analog input.
>>
>
> I have had no problems with this card. My main worry was power supply
> noise superimposed on the audio. But it just doesn't seem to happen.

So you have used this one. I have basic requirements that on paper
the 'Live' one seemed to have, but I am likely to get this one. I am
considering getting both actually if something doesn't work.

My requirements are: 5.1 digital audio output in Dolby and DTS (undecoded).
I don't
need the more advanced ones like DD Ex and such. I could even accept no
DTS.
I just want to input audio into an average Home Theatre System at the
digital input.

I want stereo analog input for recording, specifically vinyl records.

And I want just an alternative line out for using in another stereo
amplifier (probably not 2.1).

So do you get analog stereo line out (as well as headphone out)? My
impression
is that one of the analog speaker connections would double for that.

Thanks.

>
>> I am surprised 5.1 digital is not possible with both 'Live' and NX
>> Notebook.
>> The manuals would have you believe it can be done.
>>
>
> These seem to be earlier products that lack some of the later features.
>

"Barrabas" <self@here.org> wrote in message news:eomj9f$126$1@aioe.org...
>
> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:45add07c$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>>
>> "Barrabas" <self@here.org> wrote in message news:eojvjj$4ku$1@aioe.org...
>>>
>>> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:45acb537$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>>>>
>>>> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:45acb1e4$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>>>>>
>>>>> There is also the Audigy 2 ZS Notebook which fits most of that last
>>>>> product onto a PCMCIA card for a laptop. Gone is the video hardware
>>>>> and the USB hub, but pretty well everything else is there.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I should have mentioned that this is a Cardbus card and requires a 32
>>>> bit PCMCIA slot. It won't work (or indeed fit into) a 16 bit PC-card
>>>> slot.
>>>
>>> My other concerns are: Audigy 2 NX Notebook appears
>>> to be a deprecated product on the creative site. Looking up
>>> product manuals, they have it for this under 'archived'.
>>>
>>
>> Haven't played with this one, though I wouldn't be surprised.
>>
>>> And the ZS PCMCIA card: I am concerned about radio interference when
>>> using analog input.
>>>
>>
>> I have had no problems with this card. My main worry was power supply
>> noise superimposed on the audio. But it just doesn't seem to happen.
>
> So you have used this one. I have basic requirements that on paper
> the 'Live' one seemed to have, but I am likely to get this one. I am
> considering getting both actually if something doesn't work.
>
> My requirements are: 5.1 digital audio output in Dolby and DTS
> (undecoded).

Yes (but not from DVD-Audio, in fact the optical output is shut off when
these are played - a requirement of licensing DVD-Audio).

> I don't
> need the more advanced ones like DD Ex and such. I could even accept no
> DTS.

They are there, you don't have to use them.

> I just want to input audio into an average Home Theatre System at the
> digital input.
>

Yes.

> I want stereo analog input for recording, specifically vinyl records.
>

Yes. (though not at the cartridge output level - you do need a
pre-amplifier)

> And I want just an alternative line out for using in another stereo
> amplifier (probably not 2.1).
>

The front channel output doubles as the 2 channel output. The output
configuration is selectable from Headphone through 2.0 all the way up to
7.1.

> So do you get analog stereo line out (as well as headphone out)? My
> impression
> is that one of the analog speaker connections would double for that.
>

Headphone output is separate from the line output (actually via the digital
output).

If I have one critisism, it is: that the microphone input is monaural (as in
most PC sound systems). This is in spite of using the same input (and
presumably input circuitry) as the stereo line input.

"M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
news:45af343c$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>
> "Barrabas" <self@here.org> wrote in message news:eomj9f$126$1@aioe.org...
>>
>> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:45add07c$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>>>
>>> "Barrabas" <self@here.org> wrote in message
>>> news:eojvjj$4ku$1@aioe.org...
>>>>
>>>> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:45acb537$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>>>>>
>>>>> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:45acb1e4$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is also the Audigy 2 ZS Notebook which fits most of that last
>>>>>> product onto a PCMCIA card for a laptop. Gone is the video hardware
>>>>>> and the USB hub, but pretty well everything else is there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I should have mentioned that this is a Cardbus card and requires a 32
>>>>> bit PCMCIA slot. It won't work (or indeed fit into) a 16 bit PC-card
>>>>> slot.
>>>>
>>>> My other concerns are: Audigy 2 NX Notebook appears
>>>> to be a deprecated product on the creative site. Looking up
>>>> product manuals, they have it for this under 'archived'.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Haven't played with this one, though I wouldn't be surprised.
>>>
>>>> And the ZS PCMCIA card: I am concerned about radio interference when
>>>> using analog input.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have had no problems with this card. My main worry was power supply
>>> noise superimposed on the audio. But it just doesn't seem to happen.
>>
>> So you have used this one. I have basic requirements that on paper
>> the 'Live' one seemed to have, but I am likely to get this one. I am
>> considering getting both actually if something doesn't work.
>>
>> My requirements are: 5.1 digital audio output in Dolby and DTS
>> (undecoded).
>
> Yes (but not from DVD-Audio, in fact the optical output is shut off when
> these are played - a requirement of licensing DVD-Audio).

That's okay. I wasn't thinking of DVD-Audio. Anyway, my Sony receiver
down converts 96 khz into 48 for the same reason I guess (stereo digital
input?). I suppose it's
an argument for having an analog input 5.1 system.
>
>> I don't
>> need the more advanced ones like DD Ex and such. I could even accept no
>> DTS.
>
> They are there, you don't have to use them.

A far fetched thought. What if I can get 5.1 from a digital input,
and the other two surround channels are outputted in analog so I connect
just a two channel amplifier. Otherwise it's a 5.1 downmix.



>
>> I just want to input audio into an average Home Theatre System at the
>> digital input.
>>
>
> Yes.
>
>> I want stereo analog input for recording, specifically vinyl records.
>>
>
> Yes. (though not at the cartridge output level - you do need a
> pre-amplifier)
>
>> And I want just an alternative line out for using in another stereo
>> amplifier (probably not 2.1).
>>
>
> The front channel output doubles as the 2 channel output. The output
> configuration is selectable from Headphone through 2.0 all the way up to
> 7.1.
>
>> So do you get analog stereo line out (as well as headphone out)? My
>> impression
>> is that one of the analog speaker connections would double for that.
>>
>
> Headphone output is separate from the line output (actually via the
> digital output).
>
> If I have one critisism, it is: that the microphone input is monaural (as
> in most PC sound systems). This is in spite of using the same input (and
> presumably input circuitry) as the stereo line input.
>
>
>

"Barrabas" <self@here.org> wrote in message news:eopa1i$r7v$1@aioe.org...
>
> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:45af343c$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>>
>> "Barrabas" <self@here.org> wrote in message news:eomj9f$126$1@aioe.org...
>>>
>>> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:45add07c$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Barrabas" <self@here.org> wrote in message
>>>> news:eojvjj$4ku$1@aioe.org...
>>>>>
>>>>> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:45acb537$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:45acb1e4$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is also the Audigy 2 ZS Notebook which fits most of that last
>>>>>>> product onto a PCMCIA card for a laptop. Gone is the video hardware
>>>>>>> and the USB hub, but pretty well everything else is there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I should have mentioned that this is a Cardbus card and requires a 32
>>>>>> bit PCMCIA slot. It won't work (or indeed fit into) a 16 bit PC-card
>>>>>> slot.
>>>>>
>>>>> My other concerns are: Audigy 2 NX Notebook appears
>>>>> to be a deprecated product on the creative site. Looking up
>>>>> product manuals, they have it for this under 'archived'.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Haven't played with this one, though I wouldn't be surprised.
>>>>
>>>>> And the ZS PCMCIA card: I am concerned about radio interference when
>>>>> using analog input.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have had no problems with this card. My main worry was power supply
>>>> noise superimposed on the audio. But it just doesn't seem to happen.
>>>
>>> So you have used this one. I have basic requirements that on paper
>>> the 'Live' one seemed to have, but I am likely to get this one. I am
>>> considering getting both actually if something doesn't work.
>>>
>>> My requirements are: 5.1 digital audio output in Dolby and DTS
>>> (undecoded).
>>
>> Yes (but not from DVD-Audio, in fact the optical output is shut off when
>> these are played - a requirement of licensing DVD-Audio).
>
> That's okay. I wasn't thinking of DVD-Audio. Anyway, my Sony receiver
> down converts 96 khz into 48 for the same reason I guess (stereo digital
> input?). I suppose it's
> an argument for having an analog input 5.1 system.
>>
>>> I don't
>>> need the more advanced ones like DD Ex and such. I could even accept no
>>> DTS.
>>
>> They are there, you don't have to use them.
>
> A far fetched thought. What if I can get 5.1 from a digital input,
> and the other two surround channels are outputted in analog so I connect
> just a two channel amplifier. Otherwise it's a 5.1 downmix.
>

If that reads how I think, then there is only 2 channel analogue input.