hello,

I recently had the unmitigated joy of replacing a hard drive in a new
HP notebook. it has the Pheonix TrustedCore BIOS.

in order to replace the hard dive, warranty service was needed to
obtain a replacement hdd from HP directly.

the reason for this is that the "TrustedCore" BIOS requires an
encrypted key to authorize any transmission from a hdd through the
notebook.

research on intel's TPM for more information.

what it amounts to is that no software can run on the machine unless
this key in present, because there is a
superspecialextraseceretdecoderring chip between the CPU and the rest
of the MB.

the failing hdd had three partitions- a recovery partition(normal) and
OS partion(normal) and a 1GB unspecified, unrecognized, etc partition,
which, presumably, carries the needed info for the ****ing computer to
function.

cloning the disk did not work. the partition table came through intact,
to the byte, but the system simply will not boot or recognise NY hdd
until we obtained the regulation, presumably pre-imaged, hdd from HP.

the implication is that any HP PC with the quoteunquote "TrustedCore"
BIOS is basically worthless after the warranty runs out.

that is all. this post is for informational purposes only.

carl

caterbro@my-deja.com wrote:
> hello,
>
> I recently had the unmitigated joy of replacing a hard drive in a new
> HP notebook. it has the Pheonix TrustedCore BIOS.
>
> in order to replace the hard dive, warranty service was needed to
> obtain a replacement hdd from HP directly.
>
> the reason for this is that the "TrustedCore" BIOS requires an
> encrypted key to authorize any transmission from a hdd through the
> notebook.
>
> research on intel's TPM for more information.
>
> what it amounts to is that no software can run on the machine unless
> this key in present, because there is a
> superspecialextraseceretdecoderring chip between the CPU and the rest
> of the MB.
>
> the failing hdd had three partitions- a recovery partition(normal) and
> OS partion(normal) and a 1GB unspecified, unrecognized, etc partition,
> which, presumably, carries the needed info for the ****ing computer to
> function.
>
> cloning the disk did not work. the partition table came through intact,
> to the byte, but the system simply will not boot or recognise NY hdd
> until we obtained the regulation, presumably pre-imaged, hdd from HP.
>
> the implication is that any HP PC with the quoteunquote "TrustedCore"
> BIOS is basically worthless after the warranty runs out.
>
> that is all. this post is for informational purposes only.
>
> carl
>

Does the user have the option of disabling the TPM function via the BIOS ?
The presumption was, that TPM could be disabled, if for example, the user
did not want "extra secure banking" or did not want to buy or use some
DRM infected content. You should be able to use your product with TPM
disabled. I'd be curious to hear whether Phoenix feels the user should
have control of their own machine or not.

Some desktop motherboards now offer a header for a TPM module, and if the
TPM pissed you off, you could unplug the module. Likely not the same with
the laptop. But have a look in the BIOS, and see if the option exists to
turn it off. Maybe you lose all access to the drive ?!? Should be a fun
experiment.

Paul

Paul wrote:

> Does the user have the option of disabling the TPM function via the BIOS ?

nope.

> The presumption was, that TPM could be disabled,

according to phoenix, this platform is designed so that no soft image
can work on this machine without the special key. that is the sole
purpose of using this BIOS.

> if for example, the user
> did not want "extra secure banking" or did not want to buy or use some
> DRM infected content. You should be able to use your product with TPM
> disabled. I'd be curious to hear whether Phoenix feels the user should
> have control of their own machine or not.

at this point, in this implementation, the answer is no.

> Some desktop motherboards now offer a header for a TPM module, and if the
> TPM pissed you off, you could unplug the module. Likely not the same with
> the laptop. But have a look in the BIOS, and see if the option exists to
> turn it off. Maybe you lose all access to the drive ?!? Should be a fun
> experiment.

it was charming, let me tell you.

carl


> Paul

<caterbro@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1167545149.574955.203680@i12g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> hello,
>
> I recently had the unmitigated joy of replacing a hard drive in a new
> HP notebook. it has the Pheonix TrustedCore BIOS.
>
so you replaced the dive


> in order to replace the hard dive, warranty service was needed to
> obtain a replacement hdd from HP directly.


why didn't hp give you instructions on how to do it properly?
if the drive came from hp why wasn't the code put on it?
I would hold hp responsible for the damage.


>

caterbro@my-deja.com wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>
>> Does the user have the option of disabling the TPM function via the BIOS ?
>
> nope.
>
>> The presumption was, that TPM could be disabled,
>
> according to phoenix, this platform is designed so that no soft image
> can work on this machine without the special key. that is the sole
> purpose of using this BIOS.
>
>> if for example, the user
>> did not want "extra secure banking" or did not want to buy or use some
>> DRM infected content. You should be able to use your product with TPM
>> disabled. I'd be curious to hear whether Phoenix feels the user should
>> have control of their own machine or not.
>
> at this point, in this implementation, the answer is no.
>
>> Some desktop motherboards now offer a header for a TPM module, and if the
>> TPM pissed you off, you could unplug the module. Likely not the same with
>> the laptop. But have a look in the BIOS, and see if the option exists to
>> turn it off. Maybe you lose all access to the drive ?!? Should be a fun
>> experiment.
>
> it was charming, let me tell you.
>
> carl
>
>
>> Paul
>

They show removable modules here, but perhaps this is for older models. And
with your luck, the Phoenix BIOS would probably fail to POST if it was removed :-)

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport..._DD030611_CW01

Paul

Paul wrote:

> They show removable modules here, but perhaps this is for older models. And
> with your luck, the Phoenix BIOS would probably fail to POST if it was removed :-)


yup that's TPM-- this is the same gen'l idea, but a differnt
implementation. didn't notice any removeable cards, did n't notice any
of the HP Protect soft- that's usually a sever or thib cleint thing,
not usually found on their SOHO.consumer products, IIRC.

what this apparently does, and ALL it does, is prevent someone from
installing an hdd that didn't come prepped from HP.

Pavilion notebook, can't recall the model.

real PITA, hellaciously irritating, espcially on a consumer-grade PC..

> http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport..._DD030611_CW01
>
> Paul

BigJim wrote:
> <caterbro@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:1167545149.574955.203680@i12g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> > hello,
> >
> > I recently had the unmitigated joy of replacing a hard drive in a new
> > HP notebook. it has the Pheonix TrustedCore BIOS.
> >
> so you replaced the dive

i see yur confusion- with this BIOS, you cannot use a standard, fresh
2.5" hdd- it MUST be prepped by HP to match this BIOS and machine. so
repair by anyone other than HP becomes tenfold more troublesome-see
below

>
> > in order to replace the hard dive, warranty service was needed to
> > obtain a replacement hdd from HP directly.
>
>
> why didn't hp give you instructions on how to do it properly?

there is no way to install a hdd on this system unless it is pre-imaged
by HP.

> if the drive came from hp why wasn't the code put on it?

the first few didn't- they came from hitachi and seagate via our
wholesaler. eventually, the owner had to call HP, walk through their
bull**** tech support checklist and get a replacement drive shipped
out, which we installed. it was a bog-standard 2.5" 120GB seagate SATA
that had been pre-imaged by HP with the mystery partition..

oddly enough, they shipped it out already mounted in a sled and with a
replacement cover plate. figure that one out. :)

> I would hold hp responsible for the damage.

they are responsible; however, it added a totally uneccessary 5 busness
days to the repair time, and 6 mos from now, when the warranty runs
out, the consumer is totally at HP's mercy for further support. that
does not bode well.

carl

can you get an extended warranty, I use dell and I always get an extra year
or two.

<caterbro@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1167605092.307381.23900@a3g2000cwd.googlegrou ps.com...
>
> BigJim wrote:
>> <caterbro@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>> news:1167545149.574955.203680@i12g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> > hello,
>> >
>> > I recently had the unmitigated joy of replacing a hard drive in a new
>> > HP notebook. it has the Pheonix TrustedCore BIOS.
>> >
>> so you replaced the dive
>
> i see yur confusion- with this BIOS, you cannot use a standard, fresh
> 2.5" hdd- it MUST be prepped by HP to match this BIOS and machine. so
> repair by anyone other than HP becomes tenfold more troublesome-see
> below
>
>>
>> > in order to replace the hard dive, warranty service was needed to
>> > obtain a replacement hdd from HP directly.
>>
>>
>> why didn't hp give you instructions on how to do it properly?
>
> there is no way to install a hdd on this system unless it is pre-imaged
> by HP.
>
>> if the drive came from hp why wasn't the code put on it?
>
> the first few didn't- they came from hitachi and seagate via our
> wholesaler. eventually, the owner had to call HP, walk through their
> bull**** tech support checklist and get a replacement drive shipped
> out, which we installed. it was a bog-standard 2.5" 120GB seagate SATA
> that had been pre-imaged by HP with the mystery partition..
>
> oddly enough, they shipped it out already mounted in a sled and with a
> replacement cover plate. figure that one out. :)
>
>> I would hold hp responsible for the damage.
>
> they are responsible; however, it added a totally uneccessary 5 busness
> days to the repair time, and 6 mos from now, when the warranty runs
> out, the consumer is totally at HP's mercy for further support. that
> does not bode well.
>
> carl
>

What if you make an image of the new drive you received from HP and then
applied that image to another virgin HDD. Would that work?

<caterbro@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1167605092.307381.23900@a3g2000cwd.googlegrou ps.com...
>
> BigJim wrote:
> > <caterbro@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > news:1167545149.574955.203680@i12g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> > > hello,
> > >
> > > I recently had the unmitigated joy of replacing a hard drive in a new
> > > HP notebook. it has the Pheonix TrustedCore BIOS.
> > >
> > so you replaced the dive
>
> i see yur confusion- with this BIOS, you cannot use a standard, fresh
> 2.5" hdd- it MUST be prepped by HP to match this BIOS and machine. so
> repair by anyone other than HP becomes tenfold more troublesome-see
> below
>
> >
> > > in order to replace the hard dive, warranty service was needed to
> > > obtain a replacement hdd from HP directly.
> >
> >
> > why didn't hp give you instructions on how to do it properly?
>
> there is no way to install a hdd on this system unless it is pre-imaged
> by HP.
>
> > if the drive came from hp why wasn't the code put on it?
>
> the first few didn't- they came from hitachi and seagate via our
> wholesaler. eventually, the owner had to call HP, walk through their
> bull**** tech support checklist and get a replacement drive shipped
> out, which we installed. it was a bog-standard 2.5" 120GB seagate SATA
> that had been pre-imaged by HP with the mystery partition..
>
> oddly enough, they shipped it out already mounted in a sled and with a
> replacement cover plate. figure that one out. :)
>
> > I would hold hp responsible for the damage.
>
> they are responsible; however, it added a totally uneccessary 5 busness
> days to the repair time, and 6 mos from now, when the warranty runs
> out, the consumer is totally at HP's mercy for further support. that
> does not bode well.
>
> carl
>

John wrote:
> What if you make an image of the new drive you received from HP and then
> applied that image to another virgin HDD. Would that work?

probably not. we imaged the failing drive succesfully, but it didn't
work after transefering the image to our stock drives. that's not
surprising, there are methods of ensuring data doesn't make it through
an imaging process.

we did not do anything with the new drive but stick it in and boot; too
much deadline pressure.

next time i see this, and i will see it agai i'll dig a little deeper.
its a king flatbread, to be sure.

carl


> > carl
> >

BigJim wrote:
> can you get an extended warranty, I use dell and I always get an extra year
> or two.

sure, the owner could probably buy an extended warranty, and we always
reccomend it, but that doesn't change the fact that, unlike
99.9999999999 percent of the laptops that came before it, one cannot
replace the hard drive unless obtaining a pre-imaged drive from HP.

it is a closed computer- as proprietary as the friggin keyboard, and
for no good reason.


carl

caterbro@my-deja.com explained :
> BigJim wrote:
>> can you get an extended warranty, I use dell and I always get an extra year
>> or two.
>
> sure, the owner could probably buy an extended warranty, and we always
> reccomend it, but that doesn't change the fact that, unlike
> 99.9999999999 percent of the laptops that came before it, one cannot
> replace the hard drive unless obtaining a pre-imaged drive from HP.
>
> it is a closed computer- as proprietary as the friggin keyboard, and
> for no good reason.
>
>
> carl

Same thing is happening with desktops. Ask HP *WHY* it is impossible
to load Linux on the newer line of Pavilions.....

--
______
Zack

Every operating system out there is about equal. We all suck.
( Brian Valentine of Microsoft )

<caterbro@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1167545149.574955.203680@i12g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> hello,
>
> I recently had the unmitigated joy of replacing a hard drive in a new
> HP notebook. it has the Pheonix TrustedCore BIOS.
>
> in order to replace the hard dive, warranty service was needed to
> obtain a replacement hdd from HP directly.
>
> the reason for this is that the "TrustedCore" BIOS requires an
> encrypted key to authorize any transmission from a hdd through the
> notebook.
>
> research on intel's TPM for more information.
>
> what it amounts to is that no software can run on the machine unless
> this key in present, because there is a
> superspecialextraseceretdecoderring chip between the CPU and the rest
> of the MB.


Look up TCPA...... http://www.againsttcpa.com/what-is-tcpa.html

Although the 'powers that be' have changed thier tactics, the agenda is the same.

>
> the failing hdd had three partitions- a recovery partition(normal) and
> OS partion(normal) and a 1GB unspecified, unrecognized, etc partition,
> which, presumably, carries the needed info for the ****ing computer to
> function.
>
> cloning the disk did not work. the partition table came through intact,
> to the byte, but the system simply will not boot or recognise NY hdd
> until we obtained the regulation, presumably pre-imaged, hdd from HP.
>
> the implication is that any HP PC with the quoteunquote "TrustedCore"
> BIOS is basically worthless after the warranty runs out.
>
> that is all. this post is for informational purposes only.
>
> carl
>

On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 10:14:06 -0330, Zack Aube wrote:

> caterbro@my-deja.com explained :
>> BigJim wrote:
>>> can you get an extended warranty, I use dell and I always get an extra
>>> year or two.
>>
>> sure, the owner could probably buy an extended warranty, and we always
>> reccomend it, but that doesn't change the fact that, unlike
>> 99.9999999999 percent of the laptops that came before it, one cannot
>> replace the hard drive unless obtaining a pre-imaged drive from HP.
>>
>> it is a closed computer- as proprietary as the friggin keyboard, and
>> for no good reason.
>>
>>
>> carl
>
> Same thing is happening with desktops. Ask HP *WHY* it is impossible to
> load Linux on the newer line of Pavilions.....

Is that true? If so, it is really distressing. HP used to be known for
fairly decent support for Linux, at least with printers and such.

Andy

Andy Axnot presented the following explanation :
> On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 10:14:06 -0330, Zack Aube wrote:
>
>> caterbro@my-deja.com explained :
>>> BigJim wrote:
>>>> can you get an extended warranty, I use dell and I always get an extra
>>>> year or two.
>>>
>>> sure, the owner could probably buy an extended warranty, and we always
>>> reccomend it, but that doesn't change the fact that, unlike
>>> 99.9999999999 percent of the laptops that came before it, one cannot
>>> replace the hard drive unless obtaining a pre-imaged drive from HP.
>>>
>>> it is a closed computer- as proprietary as the friggin keyboard, and
>>> for no good reason.
>>>
>>>
>>> carl
>>
>> Same thing is happening with desktops. Ask HP *WHY* it is impossible to
>> load Linux on the newer line of Pavilions.....
>
> Is that true? If so, it is really distressing. HP used to be known for
> fairly decent support for Linux, at least with printers and such.
>
> Andy

HP Pavilion a1110n. I've tried many different distros. Even tried
KNOPPIX live cd distro. Still no joy. Finally gave up and installed
to an old IBM instead.

--
______
Zack

Every operating system out there is about equal. We all suck.
( Brian Valentine of Microsoft )