I clearly don't know about laptop chargers.

1.
When not in use - will the battery be discharged if I only unplug the
110v end and leave it connected at the laptop?

2.
If I unplug at the laptop and leave the charger plugged in at the 110v
end - am I wasting power and causing any wear to the charger?

My WAG (wild xxx guess) is that the answer may be no to both 1 and 2.
Is my WAG correct?

jl

> When not in use - will the battery be discharged if I only unplug the
> 110v end and leave it connected at the laptop?

Yes, but it doesn't make any difference if you have the charger plugged
in or not. All battery technologies self-discharge. Even if the battery
is not physically installed in the laptop, it is self-discharging.

> If I unplug at the laptop and leave the charger plugged in at the 110v
> end - am I wasting power and causing any wear to the charger?

Yes, you are wasting a [small] amount of energy this way. You are
causing some aging of the charger. However, this won't be the limiting
factor for the laptop's lifespan.

If you are not using the battery, the best thing to do is to remove it.
If your "laptop" is really being used just as a small desktop, and is
not traveling, remove the battery entirely and get a small UPS.

However, from the perspective of the laptop and the battery, if you are
going to unplug something, it doesn't matter if you unplug the DC
connection to the laptop or the AC connection to the power supply.
However, if the power supply remains plugged in, it continues to use
(waste) some power and give off some heat, so in that sense it's
probably better to unplug it from the wall power socket.

A battery left in a laptop will discharge slowly ... there is some
current drain even when the laptop is off. But it's usually very small
and it may take a couple of months for the battery to be discharged to
the point at which it won't run the laptop at all.


Joe Lauton wrote:
> I clearly don't know about laptop chargers.
>
> 1.
> When not in use - will the battery be discharged if I only unplug the
> 110v end and leave it connected at the laptop?
>
> 2.
> If I unplug at the laptop and leave the charger plugged in at the 110v
> end - am I wasting power and causing any wear to the charger?
>
> My WAG (wild xxx guess) is that the answer may be no to both 1 and 2.
> Is my WAG correct?
>
> jl

We all know that batteries discharge over time and that no life is
forever. The question really is - does the connection at the DC end
alone INCREASE the rate of discharge (due to whatever is contained in
the charger)?
jl


On Sat, 23 Dec 2006 14:17:02 -0500, Barry Watzman
<WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:

>If you are not using the battery, the best thing to do is to remove it.
> If your "laptop" is really being used just as a small desktop, and is
>not traveling, remove the battery entirely and get a small UPS.
>
>However, from the perspective of the laptop and the battery, if you are
>going to unplug something, it doesn't matter if you unplug the DC
>connection to the laptop or the AC connection to the power supply.
>However, if the power supply remains plugged in, it continues to use
>(waste) some power and give off some heat, so in that sense it's
>probably better to unplug it from the wall power socket.
>
>A battery left in a laptop will discharge slowly ... there is some
>current drain even when the laptop is off. But it's usually very small
>and it may take a couple of months for the battery to be discharged to
>the point at which it won't run the laptop at all.
>
>
>Joe Lauton wrote:
>> I clearly don't know about laptop chargers.
>>
>> 1.
>> When not in use - will the battery be discharged if I only unplug the
>> 110v end and leave it connected at the laptop?
>>
>> 2.
>> If I unplug at the laptop and leave the charger plugged in at the 110v
>> end - am I wasting power and causing any wear to the charger?
>>
>> My WAG (wild xxx guess) is that the answer may be no to both 1 and 2.
>> Is my WAG correct?
>>
>> jl

Joe Lauton wrote:
> We all know that batteries discharge over time and that no life is
> forever. The question really is - does the connection at the DC end
> alone INCREASE the rate of discharge (due to whatever is contained in

No. It doesn't work that way.

On 23 Dec 2006 13:59:53 -0800, zwsdotcom******.com wrote:

>
>Joe Lauton wrote:
>> We all know that batteries discharge over time and that no life is
>> forever. The question really is - does the connection at the DC end
>> alone INCREASE the rate of discharge (due to whatever is contained in
>
>No. It doesn't work that way.

You seem very sure of that - what is your reasoning or proof?

jl

No, it does not.

Joe Lauton wrote:
> We all know that batteries discharge over time and that no life is
> forever. The question really is - does the connection at the DC end
> alone INCREASE the rate of discharge (due to whatever is contained in
> the charger)?
> jl
>
>
> On Sat, 23 Dec 2006 14:17:02 -0500, Barry Watzman
> <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> If you are not using the battery, the best thing to do is to remove it.
>> If your "laptop" is really being used just as a small desktop, and is
>> not traveling, remove the battery entirely and get a small UPS.
>>
>> However, from the perspective of the laptop and the battery, if you are
>> going to unplug something, it doesn't matter if you unplug the DC
>> connection to the laptop or the AC connection to the power supply.
>> However, if the power supply remains plugged in, it continues to use
>> (waste) some power and give off some heat, so in that sense it's
>> probably better to unplug it from the wall power socket.
>>
>> A battery left in a laptop will discharge slowly ... there is some
>> current drain even when the laptop is off. But it's usually very small
>> and it may take a couple of months for the battery to be discharged to
>> the point at which it won't run the laptop at all.
>>
>>
>> Joe Lauton wrote:
>>> I clearly don't know about laptop chargers.
>>>
>>> 1.
>>> When not in use - will the battery be discharged if I only unplug the
>>> 110v end and leave it connected at the laptop?
>>>
>>> 2.
>>> If I unplug at the laptop and leave the charger plugged in at the 110v
>>> end - am I wasting power and causing any wear to the charger?
>>>
>>> My WAG (wild xxx guess) is that the answer may be no to both 1 and 2.
>>> Is my WAG correct?
>>>
>>> jl

Joe Lauton wrote:
> We all know that batteries discharge over time and that no life is
> forever. The question really is - does the connection at the DC end
> alone INCREASE the rate of discharge (due to whatever is contained in
> the charger)?
> jl

*** I tend to say it does because the filter capacitors in the power
supply will discharge either on their own over time, or via bleeder
resistors if the supply contains them. I would think a small amount of
laptop battery power would be consumed by that discharge as the battery
tries to keep the capacitors charged.

Thoughts against that are if there are diodes to prevent such current
flow.

Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

Joe Lauton wrote:

> >> alone INCREASE the rate of discharge (due to whatever is contained in
> >
> >No. It doesn't work that way.
>
> You seem very sure of that - what is your reasoning or proof?

The structure of a SMPS. Read up on it.

You might also find it useful to plug a bare plug into the DC inlet of
your laptop and put your multimeter across it in current mode.

On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 02:54:17 +0000 (UTC), ak621@chebucto.ns.ca
(Richard Bonner) wrote:

>Joe Lauton wrote:
>> We all know that batteries discharge over time and that no life is
>> forever. The question really is - does the connection at the DC end
>> alone INCREASE the rate of discharge (due to whatever is contained in
>> the charger)?
>> jl
>
>*** I tend to say it does because the filter capacitors in the power
>supply will discharge either on their own over time, or via bleeder
>resistors if the supply contains them. I would think a small amount of
>laptop battery power would be consumed by that discharge as the battery
>tries to keep the capacitors charged.
>
> Thoughts against that are if there are diodes to prevent such current
>flow.
>
> Richard Bonner
>http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

I'm thinking along the same lines but really I have no experience with
'current 2006' applied electronics - nor do I know what is inside the
run of the mill charger.
Yes - I see the unsupported claims to the contrary that may even use
resort to undefined abbreviations as some sort of evidence.

> Thoughts against that are if there are diodes to prevent such current
>flow.

That is a real question. Would most or all chargers use such
technology?

jl

With the power unit plugged in the battery would be disabled, so
unplugging the power adapter would be the correct and best option I
would say.

These units are usually switch-mode types, that is not the usual
transformer but an electronic switching circuit that operates around
18Khz or 18,000 cycles per second, a conventional transformer would
operate at 50 or 60Hz per second depending in the locality on the
globe, USA 60Hz and UK 50Hz etc.

Leaving these powered up when not in use could create problems with
surges on the power lines, i.e during thunderstorm or high winds,
when the lights start to flicker could damaged them, same thing could
happen when they are in use.

Although well protected against these effects anything left switched
on un-attended could be considered as a fire hazzard... suppose a
soldered joint becomes intermittent around the primary or mains side
this could create arcing which could cause ignition..!

The advantage of switch-mode units are lighter and smaller compared to
a transformer type unit for the same power capacity as it's easier to
smooth the ripples of a 18Khz supply than a 60 or 50Hz supply with
the advantages of smaller components being required.

Davy

On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 07:16:17 -0000, no@spam.invalid (Davy) wrote:

>With the power unit plugged in the battery would be disabled, so
>unplugging the power adapter would be the correct and best option I
>would say.

Davy,
It that at the DC end, the AC end or both?

If ONLY unplugged at the AC end - is battery power lost due to the DC
connection?

Do you know if Toshiba uses this technology?
jl



>
>These units are usually switch-mode types, that is not the usual
>transformer but an electronic switching circuit that operates around
>18Khz or 18,000 cycles per second, a conventional transformer would
>operate at 50 or 60Hz per second depending in the locality on the
>globe, USA 60Hz and UK 50Hz etc.
>
>Leaving these powered up when not in use could create problems with
>surges on the power lines, i.e during thunderstorm or high winds,
>when the lights start to flicker could damaged them, same thing could
>happen when they are in use.
>
>Although well protected against these effects anything left switched
>on un-attended could be considered as a fire hazzard... suppose a
>soldered joint becomes intermittent around the primary or mains side
>this could create arcing which could cause ignition..!
>
>The advantage of switch-mode units are lighter and smaller compared to
>a transformer type unit for the same power capacity as it's easier to
>smooth the ripples of a 18Khz supply than a 60 or 50Hz supply with
>the advantages of smaller components being required.
>
>Davy

Joe Lauton wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 02:54:17 +0000 (UTC), ak621@chebucto.ns.ca
> (Richard Bonner) wrote:

> >Joe Lauton wrote:
> >> We all know that batteries discharge over time and that no life is
> >> forever. The question really is - does the connection at the DC end
> >> alone INCREASE the rate of discharge (due to whatever is contained in
> >> the charger)?
> >> jl
> >
> >*** I tend to say it does because the filter capacitors in the power
> >supply will discharge either on their own over time, or via bleeder
> >resistors if the supply contains them. I would think a small amount of
> >laptop battery power would be consumed by that discharge as the battery
> >tries to keep the capacitors charged.
> >
> > Thoughts against that are if there are diodes to prevent such current
> >flow.
> >
> > Richard Bonner

> I'm thinking along the same lines but really I have no experience with
> 'current 2006' applied electronics - nor do I know what is inside the
> run of the mill charger.

> > Thoughts against that are if there are diodes to prevent such current
> >flow.

> That is a real question. Would most or all chargers use such
> technology?

> jl

*** Diodes are cheap. I don't see why not.

Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

"Davy" <no@spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:12osaa12fgcvl9b@news.supernews.com...
>
> The advantage of switch-mode units are lighter and smaller compared to
> a transformer type unit for the same power capacity as it's easier to
> smooth the ripples of a 18Khz supply than a 60 or 50Hz supply with
> the advantages of smaller components being required.
>

No it isn't. Which is why switch mode power supplies are never used in
decent audio amplifiers. On a practical note, laptop computers (and
computers in general) are not particularly fussy about proper smoothing
which is why this type of power supply is used.

"Joe Lauton" <JL@Lauton2000.com> wrote in message
news:r2qoo293edmrv0e8u21bgjk105cp4oluuk@4ax.com...
>I clearly don't know about laptop chargers.
>
> 1.
> When not in use - will the battery be discharged if I only unplug the
> 110v end and leave it connected at the laptop?
>

No.

> 2.
> If I unplug at the laptop and leave the charger plugged in at the 110v
> end - am I wasting power and causing any wear to the charger?
>

Yes. Plus the power company won't thank you as the supply may take less
than a watt in this mode, but does so at a low power factor.