I've led a sheltered life, I guess, and have never used a laptop for
more than a minute or two. But now I'm looking at buying one
(basically for the wireless feature), and have some questions about
the display.

My desktop uses a 19" CRT in 800x600 mode. I'm very nearsighted
(-6 diopters), and glasses which correct for that also have the
effect of making everything smaller. So I just see the screen
better the way I have it now.

The laptops I'm looking at are 15.4" widescreen, 1280x800. Since
that's 1.6 instead of 1.33, I assume that for most 4:3 stuff it
would actually use about 1068x800, assuming I maintain the original
aspect ratio, and that's roughly equivalent to 1054x768 on a CRT.

So compared to my desktop, I would be moving up one setting in
resolution, and displaying that on a smaller screen.

When I change the resolution on my CRT, pretty much anything works,
but I understand that LCD displays are meant to use their native
resolution. Does that mean it would not be possible to use 800x600
on the laptop (I guess it would actually be 960x600) and still have
it be clear and sharp? How bad would it be? Is there any special
Cleartype kind of thing that would let me use the lower resolution
all the time?

And if there are any other very nearsighted people over 45 out
there, could you tell me how well laptops work for you in general?
Do you use your reading glasses to use them? I've got "computer
glasses" now for the CRT, but I think the laptop will be too close
in for them to work. From my brief experience looking at laptops in
the stores, everything looks really really small.

Peabody wrote:

> (-6 diopters), and glasses which correct for that also have the
> effect of making everything smaller. So I just see the screen

I have the same problem, and really really hate it. I'm "only" 32 but
I'm very nearsighted also, though this is slowly getting better as I
age. I wear glasses fulltime. I also have contact lenses, which have a
slightly weaker prescription - kind of a middle ground between two
evils. It's more comfortable to work on the laptop when I'm using the
contacts.

> When I change the resolution on my CRT, pretty much anything works,
> but I understand that LCD displays are meant to use their native
> resolution. Does that mean it would not be possible to use 800x600
> on the laptop (I guess it would actually be 960x600) and still have

Per another thread in this NG just within the past week - you may find
that you simply don't have the option of using that lower widescreen
resolution. You'll only have the native resolution of the panel, and a
selection of 4:3 resolutions which will show up with black borders on
the sides.

The only thing you can do in such a case is to increase the font size.

"Peabody" <waybackNO784SPAM44******.com> wrote in message
news:GNeeh.9248$gj2.1135@newsfe23.lga...
> I've led a sheltered life, I guess, and have never used a laptop for
> more than a minute or two. But now I'm looking at buying one
> (basically for the wireless feature), and have some questions about
> the display.
>
> My desktop uses a 19" CRT in 800x600 mode. I'm very nearsighted
> (-6 diopters), and glasses which correct for that also have the
> effect of making everything smaller. So I just see the screen
> better the way I have it now.
>
> The laptops I'm looking at are 15.4" widescreen, 1280x800. Since
> that's 1.6 instead of 1.33, I assume that for most 4:3 stuff it
> would actually use about 1068x800, assuming I maintain the original
> aspect ratio, and that's roughly equivalent to 1054x768 on a CRT.
>
> So compared to my desktop, I would be moving up one setting in
> resolution, and displaying that on a smaller screen.
>
> When I change the resolution on my CRT, pretty much anything works,
> but I understand that LCD displays are meant to use their native
> resolution. Does that mean it would not be possible to use 800x600
> on the laptop (I guess it would actually be 960x600) and still have
> it be clear and sharp? How bad would it be? Is there any special
> Cleartype kind of thing that would let me use the lower resolution
> all the time?
>
> And if there are any other very nearsighted people over 45 out
> there, could you tell me how well laptops work for you in general?
> Do you use your reading glasses to use them? I've got "computer
> glasses" now for the CRT, but I think the laptop will be too close
> in for them to work. From my brief experience looking at laptops in
> the stores, everything looks really really small.

Not all computer glasses are created equal... ;)

"Computer" glasses are usually made based on the (measured) distance a
person's eye is from the surface of the computer screen.

If the measured distance to your laptop display is much less then it is for
your desktop display, as mine is, it would be much better to have your
optometrist make you a pair of glasses just for use on the laptop.

I too am very nearsighted and now have two different "computer" glasses.
One for use with laptops (and great for personal DVD players) and one for
use with the a large desktop monitor.

You are correct that an LCD should only be operated at it's native
resolution. However you are approaching this all wrong.

Leave the resolution set for the native panel resolution, then tell
Windows to make everything larger when it's being "drawn". This you can
do without restriction, and one setting will effect EVERYTHING ...
fonts, Icons, etc. (SOME web pages may not display correctly, however,
depending on how they were created).

To do this, open the display properties Window (right click on the
desktop in a blank area, then "properties"). Then Settings / Advanced
/ General / Display / DPI Settings. Select "custom settings" and have
your way with it, you will get a "ruler" to "drag" (or you can set
percentages or a DPI setting, I think).

There are also some "accessibility tools" that you may find of use
(Start / Programs / Accessories / Accessibility).



Peabody wrote:
> I've led a sheltered life, I guess, and have never used a laptop for
> more than a minute or two. But now I'm looking at buying one
> (basically for the wireless feature), and have some questions about
> the display.
>
> My desktop uses a 19" CRT in 800x600 mode. I'm very nearsighted
> (-6 diopters), and glasses which correct for that also have the
> effect of making everything smaller. So I just see the screen
> better the way I have it now.
>
> The laptops I'm looking at are 15.4" widescreen, 1280x800. Since
> that's 1.6 instead of 1.33, I assume that for most 4:3 stuff it
> would actually use about 1068x800, assuming I maintain the original
> aspect ratio, and that's roughly equivalent to 1054x768 on a CRT.
>
> So compared to my desktop, I would be moving up one setting in
> resolution, and displaying that on a smaller screen.
>
> When I change the resolution on my CRT, pretty much anything works,
> but I understand that LCD displays are meant to use their native
> resolution. Does that mean it would not be possible to use 800x600
> on the laptop (I guess it would actually be 960x600) and still have
> it be clear and sharp? How bad would it be? Is there any special
> Cleartype kind of thing that would let me use the lower resolution
> all the time?
>
> And if there are any other very nearsighted people over 45 out
> there, could you tell me how well laptops work for you in general?
> Do you use your reading glasses to use them? I've got "computer
> glasses" now for the CRT, but I think the laptop will be too close
> in for them to work. From my brief experience looking at laptops in
> the stores, everything looks really really small.
>
>

Re: "The only thing you can do in such a case is to increase the font size."

No, wrong. See my immediately preceding post.

zwsdotcom******.com wrote:
> Peabody wrote:
>
>> (-6 diopters), and glasses which correct for that also have the
>> effect of making everything smaller. So I just see the screen
>
> I have the same problem, and really really hate it. I'm "only" 32 but
> I'm very nearsighted also, though this is slowly getting better as I
> age. I wear glasses fulltime. I also have contact lenses, which have a
> slightly weaker prescription - kind of a middle ground between two
> evils. It's more comfortable to work on the laptop when I'm using the
> contacts.
>
>> When I change the resolution on my CRT, pretty much anything works,
>> but I understand that LCD displays are meant to use their native
>> resolution. Does that mean it would not be possible to use 800x600
>> on the laptop (I guess it would actually be 960x600) and still have
>
> Per another thread in this NG just within the past week - you may find
> that you simply don't have the option of using that lower widescreen
> resolution. You'll only have the native resolution of the panel, and a
> selection of 4:3 resolutions which will show up with black borders on
> the sides.
>
> The only thing you can do in such a case is to increase the font size.
>

Barry Watzman wrote:
> Re: "The only thing you can do in such a case is to increase the font size."
>
> No, wrong. See my immediately preceding post.

No, right - I didn't state it the same way but this is what I meant.
Many things will however be left unaffected.

waybackNO784SPAM44******.com (Peabody) wrote in
news:GNeeh.9248$gj2.1135@newsfe23.lga:

> When I change the resolution on my CRT, pretty much anything works,
> but I understand that LCD displays are meant to use their native
> resolution. Does that mean it would not be possible to use 800x600
> on the laptop (I guess it would actually be 960x600) and still have
> it be clear and sharp? How bad would it be? Is there any special
> Cleartype kind of thing that would let me use the lower resolution
> all the time?

One suggestion I've seen is to pick a lower resolution mode with X
and Y values that divide evenly into your monitor's native mode, if
it's supported by your video driver.

In your case, it looks like the only mode that comes out would be
640x400, which might be a bit extreme.

My solution for aging vision is to have eyeglasses ground for the
specific working distance. I have a pair at work, I have another pair
at home, and I have reading glasses too.

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com

Re: "One suggestion I've seen is to pick a lower resolution mode with X
and Y values that divide evenly into your monitor's native mode"

Sometimes that works; sometimes you get a small Windows desktop on which
everything is the same [small] original size, with a big black border
all the way around. And sometimes you can't do it at all because the
drivers won't let you choose a "non-standard" resolution.


Bert Hyman wrote:
> waybackNO784SPAM44******.com (Peabody) wrote in
> news:GNeeh.9248$gj2.1135@newsfe23.lga:
>
>> When I change the resolution on my CRT, pretty much anything works,
>> but I understand that LCD displays are meant to use their native
>> resolution. Does that mean it would not be possible to use 800x600
>> on the laptop (I guess it would actually be 960x600) and still have
>> it be clear and sharp? How bad would it be? Is there any special
>> Cleartype kind of thing that would let me use the lower resolution
>> all the time?
>
> One suggestion I've seen is to pick a lower resolution mode with X
> and Y values that divide evenly into your monitor's native mode, if
> it's supported by your video driver.
>
> In your case, it looks like the only mode that comes out would be
> 640x400, which might be a bit extreme.
>
> My solution for aging vision is to have eyeglasses ground for the
> specific working distance. I have a pair at work, I have another pair
> at home, and I have reading glasses too.
>

GlowingBlueMist says...

> Not all computer glasses are created equal... ;)

> "Computer" glasses are usually made based on the
> (measured) distance a person's eye is from the surface
> of the computer screen.

> If the measured distance to your laptop display is much
> less then it is for your desktop display, as mine is, it
> would be much better to have your optometrist make you a
> pair of glasses just for use on the laptop.

> I too am very nearsighted and now have two different
> "computer" glasses. One for use with laptops (and great
> for personal DVD players) and one for use with the a
> large desktop monitor.

It seems to me that laptop glasses would be very close to
reading glasses. Perhaps close enough that one pair of
glasses could be used for both.

Barry Watzman says...

> Leave the resolution set for the native panel
> resolution, then tell Windows to make everything larger
> when it's being "drawn". This you can do without
> restriction, and one setting will effect EVERYTHING ...
> fonts, Icons, etc. (SOME web pages may not display
> correctly, however, depending on how they were created).

Yes, I think I tried this before with my CRT monitor, and
found a number of problems with it. It's been a while, but
as I recall there were times when something wouldn't fit on
the screen, but there were no scroll bars to let me scroll
to the hidden part. So, I don't know.

Maybe I need one of those magnifier screens they had in the
movie Brazil. :-)

Anyway, I stopped by a store after the first post, and tried
switching into a lower resolution - 1024x768, and it did it
ok, but looked fuzzy. Not at all clear and sharp. So I
guess I need to assume that whatever else I do, I'll have
to stay at the 1280x800 native resolution.

Reading distance is typically 12" to 15". Computer screen viewing
distance is more like 20". The difference is significant. I have
bifocals (use bottom part for viewing), and a separate set of "computer
glasses". The three lenses are distinctly different.


Peabody wrote:
> GlowingBlueMist says...
>
> > Not all computer glasses are created equal... ;)
>
> > "Computer" glasses are usually made based on the
> > (measured) distance a person's eye is from the surface
> > of the computer screen.
>
> > If the measured distance to your laptop display is much
> > less then it is for your desktop display, as mine is, it
> > would be much better to have your optometrist make you a
> > pair of glasses just for use on the laptop.
>
> > I too am very nearsighted and now have two different
> > "computer" glasses. One for use with laptops (and great
> > for personal DVD players) and one for use with the a
> > large desktop monitor.
>
> It seems to me that laptop glasses would be very close to
> reading glasses. Perhaps close enough that one pair of
> glasses could be used for both.
>
>

Peabody wrote:
> I've led a sheltered life, I guess, and have never used a laptop for
> more than a minute or two. But now I'm looking at buying one
> (basically for the wireless feature), and have some questions about
> the display.
>
> My desktop uses a 19" CRT in 800x600 mode. I'm very nearsighted
> (-6 diopters), and glasses which correct for that also have the
> effect of making everything smaller. So I just see the screen
> better the way I have it now.
>
> The laptops I'm looking at are 15.4" widescreen, 1280x800. Since
> that's 1.6 instead of 1.33, I assume that for most 4:3 stuff it
> would actually use about 1068x800, assuming I maintain the original
> aspect ratio, and that's roughly equivalent to 1054x768 on a CRT.
>
> So compared to my desktop, I would be moving up one setting in
> resolution, and displaying that on a smaller screen.
>
> When I change the resolution on my CRT, pretty much anything works,
> but I understand that LCD displays are meant to use their native
> resolution. Does that mean it would not be possible to use 800x600
> on the laptop (I guess it would actually be 960x600) and still have
> it be clear and sharp? How bad would it be? Is there any special
> Cleartype kind of thing that would let me use the lower resolution
> all the time?
>
> And if there are any other very nearsighted people over 45 out
> there, could you tell me how well laptops work for you in general?
> Do you use your reading glasses to use them? I've got "computer
> glasses" now for the CRT, but I think the laptop will be too close
> in for them to work. From my brief experience looking at laptops in
> the stores, everything looks really really small.
>
>

I also have -6 diopter vision. I have absolutely no trouble with any of
the newer laptop screens. What I have found, though, is that
anti-reflection coating on the inside lens makes viewing any computer
screen more enjoyable.

Q

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:457a2310$0$13734$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Reading distance is typically 12" to 15". Computer screen viewing
> distance is more like 20". The difference is significant. I have
> bifocals (use bottom part for viewing), and a separate set of "computer
> glasses". The three lenses are distinctly different.
>
> <snip>
I agree Barry,
They have been after me to either get bifocals or trifocals but since I
usually spend hours doing one project or another I still find it easier to
just switch glasses. I have a very sharp drop off in focus until I reach
around 20 feet or so.

Reading hand held items I need no glasses, then there is the laptop which I
"almost" don't need glasses to use. I find that I get much less eye strain
if I have glasses with just a little bit of magnification. Yes much like
those mass produced reading glasses. As for the desktop unit, it sits
about 36 inches from my face when I'm normally using it. None of the text
is readable with out using glasses unless I use 36 point or larger fonts,
and that is with a 19 inch monitor.

As for driving glasses, those are strong enough that I am almost not able to
understand the dashboard inside the vehicle. I think that if/when I do get
bifocals those will be my first ones.

On 08 Dec 2006 18:02:15 GMT, Bert Hyman <bert@iphouse.com> wrote:

:My solution for aging vision is to have eyeglasses ground for the
:specific working distance. I have a pair at work, I have another pair
:at home, and I have reading glasses too.

I have several different "pairs" of glasses:

Distance (for driving, movies, "sightseeing," etc.) - places where I
need to focus on things at a distance

All-purpose - These are sort of in-betweeners, that used to be my
distance glasses some years ago (my eyes have gotten more nearsighted as
time has passed).

Computer (I'm wearing them now), which focus at around 19".

Reading - I think they focus at around 13".


As you get older, the lenses of your eyes gradually lose their ability
to change focal length, so you either need several sets if you want to
focus at different distances, or you can get bifocals or glasses which
change focal point depending on the tilt of your head. I don't like
those, so I stick to fixed focus glasses.

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 11:20:37 -0700, Quaoar <quaoar@marcabfleet.com>
wrote:

:Peabody wrote:
:> I've led a sheltered life, I guess, and have never used a laptop for
:> more than a minute or two. But now I'm looking at buying one
:> (basically for the wireless feature), and have some questions about
:> the display.
:>
:> My desktop uses a 19" CRT in 800x600 mode. I'm very nearsighted
:> (-6 diopters), and glasses which correct for that also have the
:> effect of making everything smaller. So I just see the screen
:> better the way I have it now.
:>
:> The laptops I'm looking at are 15.4" widescreen, 1280x800. Since
:> that's 1.6 instead of 1.33, I assume that for most 4:3 stuff it
:> would actually use about 1068x800, assuming I maintain the original
:> aspect ratio, and that's roughly equivalent to 1054x768 on a CRT.
:>
:> So compared to my desktop, I would be moving up one setting in
:> resolution, and displaying that on a smaller screen.
:>
:> When I change the resolution on my CRT, pretty much anything works,
:> but I understand that LCD displays are meant to use their native
:> resolution. Does that mean it would not be possible to use 800x600
:> on the laptop (I guess it would actually be 960x600) and still have
:> it be clear and sharp? How bad would it be? Is there any special
:> Cleartype kind of thing that would let me use the lower resolution
:> all the time?
:>
:> And if there are any other very nearsighted people over 45 out
:> there, could you tell me how well laptops work for you in general?
:> Do you use your reading glasses to use them? I've got "computer
:> glasses" now for the CRT, but I think the laptop will be too close
:> in for them to work. From my brief experience looking at laptops in
:> the stores, everything looks really really small.
:>
:>
:
:I also have -6 diopter vision. I have absolutely no trouble with any of
:the newer laptop screens. What I have found, though, is that
:anti-reflection coating on the inside lens makes viewing any computer
:screen more enjoyable.
:
:Q

What is that? A coating on the surface of the lens closest to your eyes?
Why does this help?