Hello --

I want to maximize the lifespan of my battery.

The IBM Power Manager application's Battery Maintenance component says
"If you primarily use your computer with the ac adapter attached and only
infrequently use battery power, battery deterioration may occur faster if
the battery is constantly charged at 100%. Lowering the charge thresholds
for your battery and periodically resetting the battery gauge will help
increase its lifespan."

Which of the 3 choices for Charge threshold do readers recommend?
- Always fully charge
- Optimize for battery lifespan; [ ] Notify me ...
- Custom (if this one, what settings should I use?)

Is the Battery gauge reset a reliable procedure?

Thanks for any help.

Larry Mehl

"Larry Mehl" <mehlREMOVETHIS@cyvest.com> wrote in message
news:12n24f8dkg8fuba@corp.supernews.com...
> Hello --
>
> I want to maximize the lifespan of my battery.
>
> The IBM Power Manager application's Battery Maintenance component says
> "If you primarily use your computer with the ac adapter attached and only
> infrequently use battery power, battery deterioration may occur faster if
> the battery is constantly charged at 100%. Lowering the charge thresholds
> for your battery and periodically resetting the battery gauge will help
> increase its lifespan."
>
> Which of the 3 choices for Charge threshold do readers recommend?
> - Always fully charge
> - Optimize for battery lifespan; [ ] Notify me ...
> - Custom (if this one, what settings should I use?)
>
> Is the Battery gauge reset a reliable procedure?
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Larry Mehl
>
>

You have the wrong concept. If you primarily use your computer while
attached to AC adapter, you should deplete the battery to the 60-70% level
and *REMOVE IT*. If you leave the battery attached, the constant cycling an
trickle charging will destroy it in less than a year, not to mention the
heat damage that a sustained AC cycle puts on the battery.

DO NOT LEAVE THE BATTERY IN THE COMPUTER.

Honu

This is the first acknowledgment I've seen from a laptop maker that
there is an issue with this (leaving the battery in the laptop while on
AC for extended periods of time). This is something that experienced
heavy laptop users have known for a long time (learned from actual
experience, not from what the textbooks and laptop user manuals say is
supposed to happen).

While it's a step in the right direction, it really doesn't go far
enough. In this type of a situation, with this use pattern, the right
move is to remove the battery entirely. The battery is, by any
definition, a "consumable"; save it for when you are traveling and
really need it. If you don't use it often, don't overcharge it and
don't expose it to high temperatures (which can happen just from being
inside the laptop) it can last the better part of a decade or more. The
battery should (must, really) get a bit of "exercise" once every few
months (2 to 4 months), but beyond that it's best stored outside the
laptop entirely. The battery makers say that Lithium batteries store
best at 40% to 60% charge, but honestly I don't see any difference
storing them fully charged (and I have a couple dozen 10-year old
batteries here that are still good enough to run laptops for over 2
hours, I repair laptops and see a lot of old batteries).

I'd add to that one other suggestion, spend $30 and get a good small UPS
to plug the AC adapter into. The UPC 300 to 350VA UPS' are often on
sale for $30 or less (and occasionally "free after rebate").


Larry Mehl wrote:
> Hello --
>
> I want to maximize the lifespan of my battery.
>
> The IBM Power Manager application's Battery Maintenance component says
> "If you primarily use your computer with the ac adapter attached and only
> infrequently use battery power, battery deterioration may occur faster if
> the battery is constantly charged at 100%. Lowering the charge thresholds
> for your battery and periodically resetting the battery gauge will help
> increase its lifespan."
>
> Which of the 3 choices for Charge threshold do readers recommend?
> - Always fully charge
> - Optimize for battery lifespan; [ ] Notify me ...
> - Custom (if this one, what settings should I use?)
>
> Is the Battery gauge reset a reliable procedure?
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Larry Mehl
>
>

I just bought an HP and checked it for power software when I turned it
on - nothing there.
7-8 years ago Digital Equipment had a utility to calibrate the power
meter ( on HiNotes) that would drain/recharge the battery and I used to
use that occasionally to fully discharge even when using it in the
office. Not only was the gauge then accurate, but it was healthy for the
battery. I thought that app was I great idea and wonder why other laptop
manufacturers didn't write one ( other than that they want to sell
batteries).


"Hertz_Donut" <nowhere@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:jtGdnXQDbPnsiezYnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@hawaiiantel. net...
>
> "Larry Mehl" <mehlREMOVETHIS@cyvest.com> wrote in message
> news:12n24f8dkg8fuba@corp.supernews.com...
>> Hello --
>>
>> I want to maximize the lifespan of my battery.
>>
>> The IBM Power Manager application's Battery Maintenance component
>> says
>> "If you primarily use your computer with the ac adapter attached and
>> only
>> infrequently use battery power, battery deterioration may occur
>> faster if
>> the battery is constantly charged at 100%. Lowering the charge
>> thresholds
>> for your battery and periodically resetting the battery gauge will
>> help
>> increase its lifespan."
>>
>> Which of the 3 choices for Charge threshold do readers recommend?
>> - Always fully charge
>> - Optimize for battery lifespan; [ ] Notify me ...
>> - Custom (if this one, what settings should I use?)
>>
>> Is the Battery gauge reset a reliable procedure?
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>>
>> Larry Mehl
>>
>>
>
> You have the wrong concept. If you primarily use your computer while
> attached to AC adapter, you should deplete the battery to the 60-70%
> level and *REMOVE IT*. If you leave the battery attached, the
> constant cycling an trickle charging will destroy it in less than a
> year, not to mention the heat damage that a sustained AC cycle puts on
> the battery.
>
> DO NOT LEAVE THE BATTERY IN THE COMPUTER.
>
> Honu
>
>

- Bobb - wrote:

> I thought that app was I great idea and wonder why other
> laptop manufacturers didn't write one ( other than that they want to
> sell batteries).

It's injurious to Lithium Ion batteries. Worked great on NiCAD and NiMH
batteries.
--
James

Visit the Thinkpad Forums
http://forum.thinkpads.com

">- Bobb - wrote:
>
>> I thought that app was I great idea and wonder why other
>> laptop manufacturers didn't write one ( other than that they want to
>> sell batteries).

If you look hard, you may find such a feature still. My 5 year old HP
OmniBook got to the calibration utility via F6 at boot. Two recent Gateways
I've had access battery calibration in the BIOS setup.

As James mentioned, not a good idea to use this on LIon batteries (except
perhaps when brand new, and once in a great while to get battery meter
resynced), while a NiCd or NiMh would benefit from occaisional use.

Val

"Val" <vmanes@NOSPAMrap.midco.net> wrote in message
news:GLedndJPNMO6gu_YnZ2dnUVZ_rKdnZ2d@midco.net...
>
> ">- Bobb - wrote:
>>
>>> I thought that app was I great idea and wonder why other
>>> laptop manufacturers didn't write one ( other than that they want to
>>> sell batteries).
>
> If you look hard, you may find such a feature still. My 5 year old HP
> OmniBook got to the calibration utility via F6 at boot. Two recent
> Gateways I've had access battery calibration in the BIOS setup.
>
> As James mentioned, not a good idea to use this on LIon batteries
> (except perhaps when brand new, and once in a great while to get
> battery meter resynced), while a NiCd or NiMh would benefit from
> occaisional use.
>
> Val

So there IS a reason ... the TYPE of battery means nothing to me so it's
over my head I guess.
I'll just leave it out when not in use.
Thanks

There are 3 major types of laptop batteries:

- NiCad (nickel cadmium)
- NiMH (nickel metal hydride)
- Lithium Ion

These are totally different chemical systems inside the battery, they
have totally different charactistics in almost every area, and all of
the rules (use, charging, storage, etc.) are totally different depending
on which type you have.

As far as I know, at this time all current production laptops use
Lithium Ion type batteries. But in the past, both NiCad and NiMH have
been used.


- Bobb - wrote:
>
> "Val" <vmanes@NOSPAMrap.midco.net> wrote in message
> news:GLedndJPNMO6gu_YnZ2dnUVZ_rKdnZ2d@midco.net...
>>
>> ">- Bobb - wrote:
>>>
>>>> I thought that app was I great idea and wonder why other
>>>> laptop manufacturers didn't write one ( other than that they want to
>>>> sell batteries).
>>
>> If you look hard, you may find such a feature still. My 5 year old HP
>> OmniBook got to the calibration utility via F6 at boot. Two recent
>> Gateways I've had access battery calibration in the BIOS setup.
>>
>> As James mentioned, not a good idea to use this on LIon batteries
>> (except perhaps when brand new, and once in a great while to get
>> battery meter resynced), while a NiCd or NiMh would benefit from
>> occaisional use.
>>
>> Val
>
> So there IS a reason ... the TYPE of battery means nothing to me so it's
> over my head I guess.
> I'll just leave it out when not in use.
> Thanks
>

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:45726bfa$0$13721$4c368faf@roadrunner.com
> There are 3 major types of laptop batteries:
>
> - NiCad (nickel cadmium)
> - NiMH (nickel metal hydride)
> - Lithium Ion
>
> These are totally different chemical systems inside the battery, they
> have totally different charactistics in almost every area, and all of
> the rules (use, charging, storage, etc.) are totally different
> depending on which type you have.
>
> As far as I know, at this time all current production laptops use
> Lithium Ion type batteries. But in the past, both NiCad and NiMH have
> been used.

My Sharp PC-4501 ('89 era) used one lead-acid battery (Pb-H) as the main
and for the clock/CMOS. I loved that design. And it works best leaving
the battery in the laptop all of the time from this design. That battery
lasted 10 years in that laptop. :)

--
Bill

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:45719620$0$6932$4c368faf@roadrunner.com
> This is the first acknowledgment I've seen from a laptop maker that
> there is an issue with this (leaving the battery in the laptop while
> on AC for extended periods of time). This is something that
> experienced heavy laptop users have known for a long time (learned
> from actual experience, not from what the textbooks and laptop user
> manuals say is supposed to happen).
>
> While it's a step in the right direction, it really doesn't go far
> enough. In this type of a situation, with this use pattern, the right
> move is to remove the battery entirely. The battery is, by any
> definition, a "consumable"; save it for when you are traveling and
> really need it. If you don't use it often, don't overcharge it and
> don't expose it to high temperatures (which can happen just from being
> inside the laptop) it can last the better part of a decade or more.
> The battery should (must, really) get a bit of "exercise" once every
> few months (2 to 4 months), but beyond that it's best stored outside
> the laptop entirely. The battery makers say that Lithium batteries
> store best at 40% to 60% charge, but honestly I don't see any
> difference storing them fully charged (and I have a couple dozen
> 10-year old batteries here that are still good enough to run laptops
> for over 2 hours, I repair laptops and see a lot of old batteries).
>
> I'd add to that one other suggestion, spend $30 and get a good small
> UPS to plug the AC adapter into. The UPC 300 to 350VA UPS' are often
> on sale for $30 or less (and occasionally "free after rebate").

I agree with most everything! Although there are a few things I like to
add. I have found that virtually all laptops charge the battery to 4.2v
per cell. Keeping them in this state, they only last 2 to 3 years.
Although if you only charge them to only 4.1v per cell, they last about
4 to 5 years in my experience (always on AC charging). And regardless
how high they are charged, but removed shortly after charging, they last
10 years or more.

Now as far as UPS go... I think you need to say something about the
running time. Running from a laptop battery, you have 2 or more hours
with a good battery. On a UPS, getting 2 hours or more running time is
expensive. We are not talking about a 30 buck UPS at all.

For example my UPS is a 1000VA (can supply about 600 watts). The UPS
battery is a 12v @ 7.5 AH. The capacity of my laptop battery is 10.8V @
4.8 AH. Which runs the laptop for about 2 1/2 hours. Yet the UPS (about
100 bucks) only runs it for about an hour. So very poor efficiency, eh?

The cool thing of course, is you can plug in all kinds of things into a
UPS. As I have my external monitor, desktop, lamp, and even my cordless
phone plugged in. Running just the desktop, the UPS dies in 4 minutes
with a 19 inch LCD monitor. Just running with the cordless phone on
though runs it over 10 hours. And if the power does go out, you do have
time to plug in the laptop battery anyway. :)

So there are big pros and cons of using a UPS instead of a laptop with a
battery. If you buy a new laptop, the battery comes with it. So no extra
cost except for the UPS. But if you buy a new laptop every 2 to 3 years
anyway (buy cheap and often is what I live by), a UPS might not make a
lot of sense. But then again a UPS can run more than just a laptop. The
UPS battery will probably last about 5 years.

Although I am drooling about the idea of throwing a huge deep cycle
marine battery on the UPS! That should give me over 10 hours on the
laptop! :P

--
Bill

Yep, I overlooked that one. It wasn't common, but a few laptops did use
SLA batteries (SLA = sealed lead-acid). I think that weight might have
been objectionable, and power density (watts per cubic inch). But it
did have some other things going for it.


BillW50 wrote:
> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:45726bfa$0$13721$4c368faf@roadrunner.com
>> There are 3 major types of laptop batteries:
>>
>> - NiCad (nickel cadmium)
>> - NiMH (nickel metal hydride)
>> - Lithium Ion
>>
>> These are totally different chemical systems inside the battery, they
>> have totally different charactistics in almost every area, and all of
>> the rules (use, charging, storage, etc.) are totally different
>> depending on which type you have.
>>
>> As far as I know, at this time all current production laptops use
>> Lithium Ion type batteries. But in the past, both NiCad and NiMH have
>> been used.
>
> My Sharp PC-4501 ('89 era) used one lead-acid battery (Pb-H) as the main
> and for the clock/CMOS. I loved that design. And it works best leaving
> the battery in the laptop all of the time from this design. That battery
> lasted 10 years in that laptop. :)
>

BillW50 wrote:
>
> Although I am drooling about the idea of throwing a huge deep cycle
> marine battery on the UPS! That should give me over 10 hours on the
> laptop! :P
>
From everything I have read that is a bad idea. The charging circuit in
the UPS is designed for the battery that is in it. One with a higher
rating will not charge properly and may also need a different charge
rate at different times.

I have one that take 4 12 volt SLA batteries wired in series. Trouble is
the batteries are dead and have swelled up and its about $200+ to
replace them.

Also did you know on some UPS the fuse is on the INPUT side not the
output side? Eg you can plug in a 1000 watt halogen, which is way over
its rating, the fuse wont blow but the PCB will smoke.

Ian Singer

--


================================================== =======================
See my homepage at http://www.iansinger.com
hosted on http://www.1and1.com/?k_id=10623894
All genealogy is stored in TMG from http://www.whollygenes.com
Charts and searching using TNG from http://www.tngsitebuilding.com
I am near Toronto Canada, can I tell where you are from your reply?
================================================== =======================

If the voltage and technology (almost always SLA in a UPS) are right,
you should be able to use a larger battery. It may take longer to
charge, but that's the only ill effect I've ever seen.


Ian Singer wrote:
> BillW50 wrote:
>>
>> Although I am drooling about the idea of throwing a huge deep cycle
>> marine battery on the UPS! That should give me over 10 hours on the
>> laptop! :P
>>
> From everything I have read that is a bad idea. The charging circuit in
> the UPS is designed for the battery that is in it. One with a higher
> rating will not charge properly and may also need a different charge
> rate at different times.
>
> I have one that take 4 12 volt SLA batteries wired in series. Trouble is
> the batteries are dead and have swelled up and its about $200+ to
> replace them.
>
> Also did you know on some UPS the fuse is on the INPUT side not the
> output side? Eg you can plug in a 1000 watt halogen, which is way over
> its rating, the fuse wont blow but the PCB will smoke.
>
> Ian Singer
>

"Ian Singer" <iansinger@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4thkk3F145488U1@mid.individual.net
> BillW50 wrote:
>>
>> Although I am drooling about the idea of throwing a huge deep cycle
>> marine battery on the UPS! That should give me over 10 hours on the
>> laptop! :P
>>
> From everything I have read that is a bad idea. The charging circuit
> in the UPS is designed for the battery that is in it. One with a
> higher rating will not charge properly and may also need a different
> charge rate at different times.

Hi Ian! Oh no! I can't think of any charger system for sealed lead-acid
batteries that cares what the capacity the battery is. The only
difference is it takes longer to charge with a larger capacity battery.

> I have one that take 4 12 volt SLA batteries wired in series. Trouble
> is the batteries are dead and have swelled up and its about $200+ to
> replace them.

Wow! That is 48VDC! How many watts does this UPS deliver? What is the AH
of these batteries? I have seen sealed lead-acid batteries go between 15
to 30 bucks apiece. This is for about 12V-10AH batteries.

> Also did you know on some UPS the fuse is on the INPUT side not the
> output side? Eg you can plug in a 1000 watt halogen, which is way
> over its rating, the fuse wont blow but the PCB will smoke.

Wow really? That is pretty crappy design.

Here is how I believe early UPS worked. As they ran the UPS (the
inverter) all of the time with or without power. And the only thing the
AC did was to keep the battery charged. The worst ones used square waves
instead of sine waves. Lots of people argued that was hard on many
devices. And things like cell phones would void your warrantee if you
used inverters or UPS. While I was worried too, I don't know of a single
case that harmed anything. Except some people noticed the power supplies
got warmer, but that is all. So some worry was still warranted.

Nowadays they don't do this at all. As for example mine runs straight
from the AC and the inverter side is dead. This is very energy efficient
until the power goes out. And it allows just one half cycle to pass
(1/120 of a second) before it kicks in. And I haven't found a single
device yet that cares if 1/120 of a second the power is gone. And it
works so seamlessly.

--
Bill

> "Ian Singer" <iansinger@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> I have one that take 4 12 volt SLA batteries wired in series. Trouble
>> is the batteries are dead and have swelled up and its about $200+ to
>> replace them.
>
BillW50 wrote:
>
> Wow! That is 48VDC! How many watts does this UPS deliver? What is the AH
> of these batteries? I have seen sealed lead-acid batteries go between 15
> to 30 bucks apiece. This is for about 12V-10AH batteries.

It's a Smartlink SLP2000P rated at 1320w output and uses 4ea GP1272F2
12V 7.2AH batteries. All four of them have swelled up and they were a
pain to get out without rupturing them. If you know of any cheap deals
that ship to Canada I might be interested but the thing is not sure if
the UPS is good. It is putting out charging voltage though.

>> Also did you know on some UPS the fuse is on the INPUT side not the
>> output side? Eg you can plug in a 1000 watt halogen, which is way
>> over its rating, the fuse wont blow but the PCB will smoke.
>
>
> Wow really? That is pretty crappy design.

True and a 1000 watt halogen is a really dirty load as its 100 %
constant. Motherboard started smoking but once I unplugged it all was OK.

Ian Singer


--


================================================== =======================
See my homepage at http://www.iansinger.com
hosted on http://www.1and1.com/?k_id=10623894
All genealogy is stored in TMG from http://www.whollygenes.com
Charts and searching using TNG from http://www.tngsitebuilding.com
I am near Toronto Canada, can I tell where you are from your reply?
================================================== =======================