"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4567161C.5020902@neo.rr.com
> ... You may
> then want to use [Norton] Partition Magic to adjust the size of the
> partitions to take up the larger space.

Speaking of which... Partition Magic v8 says my hard drive (external USB
320GB) uses a different geometry and refuses to do anything with it.
What I want to do is to knock off the two clone partitions of the OS and
expand the third data partition to be all data.

--
Bill

On Fri, 24 Nov 2006, BillW50 wrote:

> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:4567161C.5020902@neo.rr.com
>> ... You may
>> then want to use [Norton] Partition Magic to adjust the size of the
>> partitions to take up the larger space.
>
> Speaking of which... Partition Magic v8 says my hard drive (external USB
> 320GB) uses a different geometry and refuses to do anything with it. What I
> want to do is to knock off the two clone partitions of the OS and expand the
> third data partition to be all data.
>
> --
> Bill
>
Yeah I have Partition Magic v8 too, but scared to try it.
Have read the thing twice over now but its not clear on how to
create "primary partitions" instead of logical partitions.
If you can actually create primary partitions then you can do
all kinds of stuff with PM. You could even probably
select the "hide" function so that other partitions wont even
see c: drive while your useing other primaries such linux etc.
Joe

It (PM) may not be supporting the controller in your external drive, or
you may have to "start over" and recreate the partitions from scratch
(which I would do with Disk management in Computer Management). How
were the partitions originally created?


BillW50 wrote:
> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:4567161C.5020902@neo.rr.com
>> ... You may
>> then want to use [Norton] Partition Magic to adjust the size of the
>> partitions to take up the larger space.
>
> Speaking of which... Partition Magic v8 says my hard drive (external USB
> 320GB) uses a different geometry and refuses to do anything with it.
> What I want to do is to knock off the two clone partitions of the OS and
> expand the third data partition to be all data.
>

On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 12:41:48 -1000, Joseph Fenn <jfenn@lava.net>
wrote:

>
>On Fri, 24 Nov 2006, BillW50 wrote:
>
>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:4567161C.5020902@neo.rr.com
>>> ... You may
>>> then want to use [Norton] Partition Magic to adjust the size of the
>>> partitions to take up the larger space.
>>
>> Speaking of which... Partition Magic v8 says my hard drive (external USB
>> 320GB) uses a different geometry and refuses to do anything with it. What I
>> want to do is to knock off the two clone partitions of the OS and expand the
>> third data partition to be all data.
>>
>> --
>> Bill
>>
>Yeah I have Partition Magic v8 too, but scared to try it.
>Have read the thing twice over now but its not clear on how to
>create "primary partitions" instead of logical partitions.
>If you can actually create primary partitions then you can do
>all kinds of stuff with PM. You could even probably
>select the "hide" function so that other partitions wont even
>see c: drive while your useing other primaries such linux etc.
> Joe

Ive had PM ver 8 since before it was bought out by Norton, and it
works fine. When creating a partition, simply select either Primary or
Logical from the drop-down list. I've used the "hide" function, and it
worked with no problems, but I'm not using it at this time. In my
desktop (main) computer I have 5 individual hard drives, all
partitioned using PM, all NTFS.

I've had some small drives (40 GB) pretty screwed up from running them
in an experimental Linux box, and PM wouldn't immediately recognize
them when I tried connecting them up as a USB external drive. I had to
temporarily install them as an internal IDE drive, then PM would
recognize them, and format for NTFS. After that they all worked OK
except for one. On that one drive, I eventually had to use the WD
tools disc to completely erase and reformat. After that, it was OK.

Even tho I've never had a problem with PM, I never change a disc,
partition size or anything, unless I have a complete backup of that
entire disc.


Charlie Hoffpauir
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~charlieh/

Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 12:41:48 -1000, Joseph Fenn <jfenn@lava.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 24 Nov 2006, BillW50 wrote:
>>
>>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4567161C.5020902@neo.rr.com
>>>> ... You may
>>>> then want to use [Norton] Partition Magic to adjust the size of the
>>>> partitions to take up the larger space.
>>> Speaking of which... Partition Magic v8 says my hard drive (external USB
>>> 320GB) uses a different geometry and refuses to do anything with it. What I
>>> want to do is to knock off the two clone partitions of the OS and expand the
>>> third data partition to be all data.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bill
>>>
>> Yeah I have Partition Magic v8 too, but scared to try it.
>> Have read the thing twice over now but its not clear on how to
>> create "primary partitions" instead of logical partitions.
>> If you can actually create primary partitions then you can do
>> all kinds of stuff with PM. You could even probably
>> select the "hide" function so that other partitions wont even
>> see c: drive while your useing other primaries such linux etc.
>> Joe
>
> Ive had PM ver 8 since before it was bought out by Norton, and it
> works fine. When creating a partition, simply select either Primary or
> Logical from the drop-down list. I've used the "hide" function, and it
> worked with no problems, but I'm not using it at this time. In my
> desktop (main) computer I have 5 individual hard drives, all
> partitioned using PM, all NTFS.
>
> I've had some small drives (40 GB) pretty screwed up from running them
> in an experimental Linux box, and PM wouldn't immediately recognize
> them when I tried connecting them up as a USB external drive. I had to
> temporarily install them as an internal IDE drive, then PM would
> recognize them, and format for NTFS. After that they all worked OK
> except for one. On that one drive, I eventually had to use the WD
> tools disc to completely erase and reformat. After that, it was OK.
>
> Even tho I've never had a problem with PM, I never change a disc,
> partition size or anything, unless I have a complete backup of that
> entire disc.
>
>
> Charlie Hoffpauir
> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~charlieh/
I never had any problem with PM until I bought a Thinkpad. It works
perfectly ok with the primary drive, but with the second one (either is
the expansion bay or connected via firewire or USB), you get this
problem and I do not know of any way way around using PM which a program
which dead in the water since Norton took over.

I had to resort buying True Image and Disk Director from Acronis to get
the job done. I find theses programs to be less user friendly than
Partition Magic, but there is something specific to the way Thinkpad
(and I read, some other machines may be) handles to the boot sector.

So the good news is, there is a solution, the bad one is $$$ and the
learning curve of Acronis products. Nothing terrible, but when dealing
with partitions ... extra care is in order.

Regards

--
John Doue

Yeah Barry. I used PM v8 to make one additional partition.
A 1 Gig partition before installing xp/pro. My Lenovo only has
a 20 gig HD in it so gotta be stingey on how much stuff I add
on the C: Drive. If add to much then cant defrag as always tells
me not enough space on the c: drive to defrag.
Sys Commander (latest version) for winxp can also do both
logical extensions and Primary Partitions. Also has features
such as "hide" c: so no conflict will take place while your
useig another partition even if its strange stuff like LINUX.
Joe

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
news:45676867$0$1347$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere. com...
> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:4567161C.5020902@neo.rr.com
>> ... You may
>> then want to use [Norton] Partition Magic to adjust the size of the
>> partitions to take up the larger space.
>
> Speaking of which... Partition Magic v8 says my hard drive (external USB
> 320GB) uses a different geometry and refuses to do anything with it. What
> I want to do is to knock off the two clone partitions of the OS and expand
> the third data partition to be all data.
>

I have seen similar errors before. It sometimes happens that the
information stored in the partition table doesn't quite match the reality of
the disk drive an PM (wisely) refuses to allow you change anything in case
it gets messed up.

If this is the case, then the only way out is to back up all the partitions
and start again from scratch

M.I.5¾ wrote:
> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
> news:45676867$0$1347$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere. com...
>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:4567161C.5020902@neo.rr.com
>>> ... You may
>>> then want to use [Norton] Partition Magic to adjust the size of the
>>> partitions to take up the larger space.
>> Speaking of which... Partition Magic v8 says my hard drive (external USB
>> 320GB) uses a different geometry and refuses to do anything with it. What
>> I want to do is to knock off the two clone partitions of the OS and expand
>> the third data partition to be all data.
>>
>
> I have seen similar errors before. It sometimes happens that the
> information stored in the partition table doesn't quite match the reality of
> the disk drive an PM (wisely) refuses to allow you change anything in case
> it gets messed up.
>
> If this is the case, then the only way out is to back up all the partitions
> and start again from scratch
>
>
Sorry to repeat my Saturday's post which does not seem to have been
read. You can do this for a life time and get the same results. Although
PM is a good product, it has not evolved for many years and stubbornly
refuses to deal with the pecularities that make life more difficult in
such cases.

I am not involved with Acronis to any extent, but using True Image and
Disk Director is the solution I know and practice, and to be honest,
only when PM fails me like in such cases.

Of course, you can disregard this advice and keep on posting your
problems here. You are welcome.

--
John Doue

I have PM (v8, v7, v5, v4, and perhaps v3). I have seen the same
(or similar) problem(s).

Note, as long as you can read the disk normally (i.e. you can boot and
copy files to and from the disk), you are not toasted yet. So, don't
panic. If possible, I would boot the system and make a backup of the
partitions before doing anything else. Once, you have a backup of the
partitions and successfully restored it somewhere else, then you know
your data is "safe" and you can proceed with a little less caution.
From here on, I'll presume you have done that.

In any case, the problem occurs when PM doesn't like the information
in the master partition table (or whatever it is called).

One way you can get this error and its numerous variants are mixing
uses of PM with other utilities (especially the linux disk formatting
utilities like "disk druid").

If this is the problem, I have found that in some cases, one can use
the built in "disk management" software in XP (or the disk utilities
in Linux, but since you are using PM, I presume you are using XP) to
do some of the tasks, in particular deleting the undesired partitions.
I have found that sometimes when doing that, the "errors" in master
partition table which were causing PM to be confused get restored to
acceptable values and PM can start seeing the partitions correctly.

Did you create the partitions on the disk while it was on an IDE cable
(or in a 2nd drive bay in your laptop) and then move it to the USB
box? That's another thing that I have noted which can cause the
problem (in addition to mixing PM uses with other disk managers). If
so, I find that putting the disk back on an IDE cable and running PM
can do the trick. If that is the issue and if you can completely and
safely (without losing data, because you have the data backed up
elsewhere) erase all the partitions while on the IDE cable, do that
and then put the disk with no partitions in the USB box and use PM to
add the partitions you want while in the USB box. From my experience,
there is something different about the track/head/cyl numbering
conventions used in USB v. IDE, but it only seems to matter to PM.
That is I have formatted disks as the 2nd drive on my laptop, and read
them while in a USB enclosure, but if I attempt to run PM when the
drive is in the "wrong" spot (in the enclosure rather than the bay or
vice versa), it will give errors like you have encountered.

Hope this helps,
-Chris

************************************************** ***************************
Chris Clark Internet : compres@world.std.com
Compiler Resources, Inc. Web Site : http://world.std.com/~compres
23 Bailey Rd voice : (508) 435-5016
Berlin, MA 01503 USA fax : (978) 838-0263 (24 hours)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 12:41:48 -1000, Joseph Fenn <jfenn@lava.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>On Fri, 24 Nov 2006, BillW50 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>news:4567161C.5020902@neo.rr.com
>>>
>>>>... You may
>>>>then want to use [Norton] Partition Magic to adjust the size of the
>>>>partitions to take up the larger space.
>>>
>>>Speaking of which... Partition Magic v8 says my hard drive (external USB
>>>320GB) uses a different geometry and refuses to do anything with it. What I
>>>want to do is to knock off the two clone partitions of the OS and expand the
>>>third data partition to be all data.
>>>
>>>--
>>>Bill
>>>
>>
>>Yeah I have Partition Magic v8 too, but scared to try it.
>>Have read the thing twice over now but its not clear on how to
>>create "primary partitions" instead of logical partitions.
>>If you can actually create primary partitions then you can do
>>all kinds of stuff with PM. You could even probably
>>select the "hide" function so that other partitions wont even
>>see c: drive while your useing other primaries such linux etc.
>> Joe
>
>
> Ive had PM ver 8 since before it was bought out by Norton, and it
> works fine. When creating a partition, simply select either Primary or
> Logical from the drop-down list. I've used the "hide" function, and it
> worked with no problems, but I'm not using it at this time. In my
> desktop (main) computer I have 5 individual hard drives, all
> partitioned using PM, all NTFS.
>
> I've had some small drives (40 GB) pretty screwed up from running them
> in an experimental Linux box, and PM wouldn't immediately recognize
> them when I tried connecting them up as a USB external drive. I had to
> temporarily install them as an internal IDE drive, then PM would
> recognize them, and format for NTFS. After that they all worked OK
> except for one. On that one drive, I eventually had to use the WD
> tools disc to completely erase and reformat. After that, it was OK.
>
> Even tho I've never had a problem with PM, I never change a disc,
> partition size or anything, unless I have a complete backup of that
> entire disc.
>
>
> Charlie Hoffpauir
> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~charlieh/

I've never deciphered the pattern, but some drives in some laptops
detect the geometry differently than what they would in a desktop.
So, if you fdisk a drive in a desktop or usb adapter, it may not work
correctly if you move it to a laptop.
What's always worked for me is to put the drive into the laptop,
fdisk/format it. Then I can put it on an adapter then back to the
laptop and it seems to work fine from then on. I've also been able to
"ghost" a partition, do the reformat and put it back on.
mike

"John Doue" <notwobe******.com> wrote in message
news:YADah.189$kd1.153@read3.inet.fi...
> M.I.5¾ wrote:
>> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
>> news:45676867$0$1347$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere. com...
>>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4567161C.5020902@neo.rr.com
>>>> ... You may
>>>> then want to use [Norton] Partition Magic to adjust the size of the
>>>> partitions to take up the larger space.
>>> Speaking of which... Partition Magic v8 says my hard drive (external USB
>>> 320GB) uses a different geometry and refuses to do anything with it.
>>> What I want to do is to knock off the two clone partitions of the OS and
>>> expand the third data partition to be all data.
>>>
>>
>> I have seen similar errors before. It sometimes happens that the
>> information stored in the partition table doesn't quite match the reality
>> of the disk drive an PM (wisely) refuses to allow you change anything in
>> case it gets messed up.
>>
>> If this is the case, then the only way out is to back up all the
>> partitions and start again from scratch
> Sorry to repeat my Saturday's post which does not seem to have been read.
> You can do this for a life time and get the same results. Although PM is a
> good product, it has not evolved for many years and stubbornly refuses to
> deal with the pecularities that make life more difficult in such cases.
>

Your post was read. Although you may have had an experience that refused to
be fixed, it is by no means the only problem that occurs. Many of the
partition table problems that I have encountered have gone away after a
reformat and a reinstall.

Other people's experience may vary.

M.I.5¾ wrote:
> "John Doue" <notwobe******.com> wrote in message
> news:YADah.189$kd1.153@read3.inet.fi...
>> M.I.5¾ wrote:
>>> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
>>> news:45676867$0$1347$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere. com...
>>>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:4567161C.5020902@neo.rr.com
>>>>> ... You may
>>>>> then want to use [Norton] Partition Magic to adjust the size of the
>>>>> partitions to take up the larger space.
>>>> Speaking of which... Partition Magic v8 says my hard drive (external USB
>>>> 320GB) uses a different geometry and refuses to do anything with it.
>>>> What I want to do is to knock off the two clone partitions of the OS and
>>>> expand the third data partition to be all data.
>>>>
>>> I have seen similar errors before. It sometimes happens that the
>>> information stored in the partition table doesn't quite match the reality
>>> of the disk drive an PM (wisely) refuses to allow you change anything in
>>> case it gets messed up.
>>>
>>> If this is the case, then the only way out is to back up all the
>>> partitions and start again from scratch
>> Sorry to repeat my Saturday's post which does not seem to have been read.
>> You can do this for a life time and get the same results. Although PM is a
>> good product, it has not evolved for many years and stubbornly refuses to
>> deal with the pecularities that make life more difficult in such cases.
>>
>
> Your post was read. Although you may have had an experience that refused to
> be fixed, it is by no means the only problem that occurs. Many of the
> partition table problems that I have encountered have gone away after a
> reformat and a reinstall.
>
> Other people's experience may vary.
>
>
But before reformating and reinstalling, which I see as a last resort, I
suggest looking at the problem with a different perspective.

Try Acronis Disk Director (just talking about the one I know, not trying
to sell it, I am just using it as an alternative) and if it does not
detect an error, it is worth at least considering the possibility PM is
wrong and the drive is ok ...!

This different geometry error, I had never encountered until I got my
Thinkpad, and there is nothing you can do about it with PM. Successfully
swapping the supposedly faulty drive to become the primary drive clearly
prooves it that the drive is ok and PM wrong, which is confirmed by the
fact that the former primary drive suddenly develops this error when
swapped as secondary drive. This happens with the expansion bay, or with
an external drive, same thing.

Of course, as you say, this problem can have several causes. But it is
always wise before deciding on surgery to have a second opinion ... This
is my only point.

Regards

--
John Doue

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:456787fa$0$13701$4c368faf@roadrunner.com
> It (PM) may not be supporting the controller in your external drive,
> or you may have to "start over" and recreate the partitions from
> scratch (which I would do with Disk management in Computer
> Management). How were the partitions originally created?

Originally it was cloned from a drive manufacture software. Seagate or
Maxtor I believe (it is a 320GB HD). This was done in a desktop. And I
used PM to resize and create other partitions. Not long afterwards, I
moved it to an external USB HD housing. Windows sees it just fine. But
PM will no longer work with it. Now it claims the geometry is different.

Like what others mentioned, I should backup (most of it is anyway).
Delete the partitions and hopefully PM will work with it again. If that
doesn't work, I suppose I could use Windows to recreate it anyway.

--
Bill

"Chris F Clark" <cfc@shell01.TheWorld.com> wrote in message
news:sddr6voy4pq.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com
> I have PM (v8, v7, v5, v4, and perhaps v3). I have seen the same
> (or similar) problem(s).
>
> Note, as long as you can read the disk normally (i.e. you can boot and
> copy files to and from the disk), you are not toasted yet. So, don't
> panic. If possible, I would boot the system and make a backup of the
> partitions before doing anything else. Once, you have a backup of the
> partitions and successfully restored it somewhere else, then you know
> your data is "safe" and you can proceed with a little less caution.
> From here on, I'll presume you have done that.
>
> In any case, the problem occurs when PM doesn't like the information
> in the master partition table (or whatever it is called).
>
> One way you can get this error and its numerous variants are mixing
> uses of PM with other utilities (especially the linux disk formatting
> utilities like "disk druid").
>
> If this is the problem, I have found that in some cases, one can use
> the built in "disk management" software in XP (or the disk utilities
> in Linux, but since you are using PM, I presume you are using XP) to
> do some of the tasks, in particular deleting the undesired partitions.
> I have found that sometimes when doing that, the "errors" in master
> partition table which were causing PM to be confused get restored to
> acceptable values and PM can start seeing the partitions correctly.
>
> Did you create the partitions on the disk while it was on an IDE cable
> (or in a 2nd drive bay in your laptop) and then move it to the USB
> box? That's another thing that I have noted which can cause the
> problem (in addition to mixing PM uses with other disk managers). If
> so, I find that putting the disk back on an IDE cable and running PM
> can do the trick. If that is the issue and if you can completely and
> safely (without losing data, because you have the data backed up
> elsewhere) erase all the partitions while on the IDE cable, do that
> and then put the disk with no partitions in the USB box and use PM to
> add the partitions you want while in the USB box. From my experience,
> there is something different about the track/head/cyl numbering
> conventions used in USB v. IDE, but it only seems to matter to PM.
> That is I have formatted disks as the 2nd drive on my laptop, and read
> them while in a USB enclosure, but if I attempt to run PM when the
> drive is in the "wrong" spot (in the enclosure rather than the bay or
> vice versa), it will give errors like you have encountered.
>
> Hope this helps,

Thanks Chris! Yes you provided lots of useful information. And also yes,
all of the data is still safe as everything can still read it except PM.
It's a 3.5 inch HD and was created in a desktop and PM worked with it.
Once moved to an external USB enclosure, PM won't tough it. Most of the
data is backed up still on the desktop. So I just probably should delete
all partitions (it has a backup of an OS partition that I don't believe
I really need) and recreate them. With or without PM help. :)

--
Bill

"John Doue" <notwobe******.com> wrote in message
news:YADah.189$kd1.153@read3.inet.fi
> Sorry to repeat my Saturday's post which does not seem to have been
> read. You can do this for a life time and get the same results.
> Although PM is a good product, it has not evolved for many years and
> stubbornly refuses to deal with the pecularities that make life more
> difficult in such cases.
>
> I am not involved with Acronis to any extent, but using True Image and
> Disk Director is the solution I know and practice, and to be honest,
> only when PM fails me like in such cases.
>
> Of course, you can disregard this advice and keep on posting your
> problems here. You are welcome.

Well that sounds great John. Although my whole gripe about these
programs is if you should backup everything before you start (and yes
this is a good idea). So if you are going to do this anyway, why do you
need any of these programs for?

I mean once the backup is made, just delete the partitions and recreate
them. Then copy everything back. In some cases, this actually takes the
same amount of time anyway. Then once again, why do you need these
programs anyway?

--
Bill