I have an old Dell XPS (750MHz) computer that has NT 4.0 loaded. I have a
Dell Home XP installation disk from another computer (which refuses to load
on anything but a Dell Computer). I have a broken Sony Notebook with Dell
Home XP. Can I (re-)use the Product Key from the broken Sony with the Dell
XP installation disk?? I don't really care if lose all the old disk info
....

Are you asking the legal question, or the "**** the legalities, will it
work" question. Which are two very different questions.

These are all OEM copies of Windows. Legally, they can only be used on
the very first system that they were installed on. And, legally, you
were not supposed to have installed the Dell copy of XP on the Sony
laptop. [Dell, like all OEMs, has the option to "bios lock" the OS'
that they sell, but they are not required to do so (the benefit of
locking is that BIOS locked copies don't have to do product activation
(although they may do so), while non-locked copies must do product
activation.] Also, since February of 2005, all "large OEM" copies of XP
(that includes Dell) will not, ever, activate over the internet ... they
must be activated by phone.

So, legally, no, you can't do it.

As to whether or not it will physically work if you try it, really the
only way to find out is to try it. Since the two copies of XP are Dell
copies, and since the target computer is also a Dell, it might work, or
it might not. By the letter of the license agreement it wouldn't, but
MS has not enforced the license agreement to it's absolute letter.


Jerohm wrote:

> I have an old Dell XPS (750MHz) computer that has NT 4.0 loaded. I have a
> Dell Home XP installation disk from another computer (which refuses to load
> on anything but a Dell Computer). I have a broken Sony Notebook with Dell
> Home XP. Can I (re-)use the Product Key from the broken Sony with the Dell
> XP installation disk?? I don't really care if lose all the old disk info
> ...
>
>

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4546B942.7020803@neo.rr.com...
> Are you asking the legal question, or the "**** the legalities, will it
> work" question. Which are two very different questions.
>
> These are all OEM copies of Windows. Legally, they can only be used on
> the very first system that they were installed on. And, legally, you were
> not supposed to have installed the Dell copy of XP on the Sony laptop.
> [Dell, like all OEMs, has the option to "bios lock" the OS' that they
> sell, but they are not required to do so (the benefit of locking is that
> BIOS locked copies don't have to do product activation (although they may
> do so), while non-locked copies must do product activation.] Also, since
> February of 2005, all "large OEM" copies of XP (that includes Dell) will
> not, ever, activate over the internet ... they must be activated by phone.

Never heard of the February 2005 date, helped a friend install an Emachine
just several months ago that activated via the internet.

"Philly" <unspamme@youbet.com> wrote in message
news:BmA1h.12058$vC1.97@tornado.tampabay.rr.com
> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:4546B942.7020803@neo.rr.com...
>> Are you asking the legal question, or the "**** the legalities, will
>> it work" question. Which are two very different questions.
>>
>> These are all OEM copies of Windows. Legally, they can only be used
>> on the very first system that they were installed on. And, legally,
>> you were not supposed to have installed the Dell copy of XP on the
>> Sony laptop. [Dell, like all OEMs, has the option to "bios lock" the
>> OS' that they sell, but they are not required to do so (the benefit
>> of locking is that BIOS locked copies don't have to do product
>> activation (although they may do so), while non-locked copies must
>> do product activation.] Also, since February of 2005, all "large
>> OEM" copies of XP (that includes Dell) will not, ever, activate over
>> the internet ... they must be activated by phone.
>
> Never heard of the February 2005 date, helped a friend install an
> Emachine just several months ago that activated via the internet.

I just bought a Gateway MX6124 laptop just 3 months ago. But it was
manufactured back in 2005. Have any idea when that eMachine was
manufactured.

--
Bill

Thank you for your very comprehensive response. In the past, I have moved a
copy of MS Office from one machine to another, but had to make a phone call
to MS. I was unaware that the OS copy was 'fixed' to the original machine
it was installed on (or its OEM nature, may be a road block). Does that
mean that when a computer breaks (i.e. goes out of service), effectively the
MS OS (i.e. XP Home in this case) is lost too? I think I know the answer
from your response ... just not real satisfied with it.

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4546B942.7020803@neo.rr.com...
> Are you asking the legal question, or the "**** the legalities, will it
> work" question. Which are two very different questions.
>
> These are all OEM copies of Windows. Legally, they can only be used on
> the very first system that they were installed on. And, legally, you were
> not supposed to have installed the Dell copy of XP on the Sony laptop.
> [Dell, like all OEMs, has the option to "bios lock" the OS' that they
> sell, but they are not required to do so (the benefit of locking is that
> BIOS locked copies don't have to do product activation (although they may
> do so), while non-locked copies must do product activation.] Also, since
> February of 2005, all "large OEM" copies of XP (that includes Dell) will
> not, ever, activate over the internet ... they must be activated by phone.
>
> So, legally, no, you can't do it.
>
> As to whether or not it will physically work if you try it, really the
> only way to find out is to try it. Since the two copies of XP are Dell
> copies, and since the target computer is also a Dell, it might work, or it
> might not. By the letter of the license agreement it wouldn't, but MS has
> not enforced the license agreement to it's absolute letter.
>
>

The whole business of a product being "fixed" to the original machine it
was first installed on applies only to OEM copies. It does NOT apply to
"retail" copies.

The question that you ask about failures is interesting. Microsoft has
never defined what constitutes a "system". So when this situation
arises (and it indeed does), what happens depends on how you proceed,
the exact wording that you use to describe the situation and,
potentially, even which agent at the call center answers your call.
Their policy (again, on OEM copies only) is that you can't move it to
another system but that you can repair a broken system. In some cases,
when a "small OEM copy" (the OEM copies we can buy from distributors or
Newegg) is involved, they will issue a new product key. In other
cases, where a "large OEM copy" (e.g. Dell, HP, Compaq, Sony, Toshiba,
etc.) is involved, they will send you to the manufacturer (Dell, HP,
Compaq, Sony, Toshiba, etc.) to get your reactivation or new key. Of
course, the manufacturer will only support this if you have replaced the
"failed" component (motherboard, etc.) with a that manufacurers OEM
component.

The type of product is encoded into the Product Key:

-Retail (bought in a store)
-Small OEM (the kind of XP OEM copy sold by Newegg, etc.)
-Large OEM (Dell, HP/Compaq, Gateway, E-Machines, etc.)

Large OEM copies no longer activate over the internet. The reason is
that people were stealing product keys from such machines installed in
public places (internet cafes, libraries, schools, etc.) and reusing
them. All activations/reactivations of such machines now must be done
in person by phone. However, the machines come preactivated, so there
is no activation unless there is a reinstallation. Also, ***IF*** the
copy of XP is "BIOS Locked", then no activation is necessary even for a
reinstallation. Bios locking is optional, the manufacturer may do it
but doesn't have to.



Jerohm wrote:

> Thank you for your very comprehensive response. In the past, I have moved a
> copy of MS Office from one machine to another, but had to make a phone call
> to MS. I was unaware that the OS copy was 'fixed' to the original machine
> it was installed on (or its OEM nature, may be a road block). Does that
> mean that when a computer breaks (i.e. goes out of service), effectively the
> MS OS (i.e. XP Home in this case) is lost too? I think I know the answer
> from your response ... just not real satisfied with it.
>
> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:4546B942.7020803@neo.rr.com...
>
>>Are you asking the legal question, or the "**** the legalities, will it
>>work" question. Which are two very different questions.
>>
>>These are all OEM copies of Windows. Legally, they can only be used on
>>the very first system that they were installed on. And, legally, you were
>>not supposed to have installed the Dell copy of XP on the Sony laptop.
>>[Dell, like all OEMs, has the option to "bios lock" the OS' that they
>>sell, but they are not required to do so (the benefit of locking is that
>>BIOS locked copies don't have to do product activation (although they may
>>do so), while non-locked copies must do product activation.] Also, since
>>February of 2005, all "large OEM" copies of XP (that includes Dell) will
>>not, ever, activate over the internet ... they must be activated by phone.
>>
>>So, legally, no, you can't do it.
>>
>>As to whether or not it will physically work if you try it, really the
>>only way to find out is to try it. Since the two copies of XP are Dell
>>copies, and since the target computer is also a Dell, it might work, or it
>>might not. By the letter of the license agreement it wouldn't, but MS has
>>not enforced the license agreement to it's absolute letter.
>>
>>
>
>
>

Jerohm wrote:
> I have an old Dell XPS (750MHz) computer that has NT 4.0 loaded. I have a
> Dell Home XP installation disk from another computer (which refuses to load
> on anything but a Dell Computer). I have a broken Sony Notebook with Dell
> Home XP. Can I (re-)use the Product Key from the broken Sony with the Dell
> XP installation disk?? I don't really care if lose all the old disk info
> ...
>
>
I don't think there is a clear answer, but I can give you some personal
anectotes.
Bought a used Toshiba laptop. Was full of viri, so needed to reload it.
Couldn't find any "legal" way to get XP reloaded...short of buying XP a
second time.

Bought a Velocity Micro laptop. It came with a CD.
Loaded the CD on the Toshiba. It accepted the Toshiba license code, but
refused
to activate online. Phone call to BOB, interesting how many people with
thick Indian accents are named Bob, and I was activated.

Bought a Compaq laptop. Still had the i386 directory, but no way to
make a disk from it. Seems that the disk maker deletes itself after you
use it once??? No obvious...or non-obvious...way to get it back.
Not much help for second owner.
I got determined and after three days of messing around, I had an XP
reinstall disk with SP2 slipstreamed into it.
I did all the debugging on a desktop. The CD accepted the laptop
license key, but put up the activation nag screen.
When I got it all done, I installed it on the Compaq. Same key, but
this time it does not nag for activation.

I'm not sure if this implies anything except that you get different
results depending on the CD you use, the License Key and the hardware.

What IS clear is that any 12 year old can get a bootleg XP running in
half an hour.
It took me three days to get a LEGAL system reloaded. Seems backwards
to me...and it gets backwarder with every new MS OS. Can't wait for the
next generation: "Insert Credit Card to start your computer..."
mike

A few comments:

It's possible to extract the product key from a running system. All
good techs should have a program that does this. So if you don't know
the key, before wiping the hard drive, even if the machine is badly
infected or malfunctioning, get the old code first so that you can use
it for the reload. (search for "keyfinder" or "magical" or "jellybean")

The fact that the CD from the Velocity Micro would not activate online
was probably due to the new policy at MS (no online activations of large
OEM copies of XP since Feb. 2005 unless they are bios-locked). If it
had been bios locked (to Velocity Micro), it would not have run on the
Dell at all.

You are lucky that you were given a new product key. On a different
day, with a different call center representative, you might not have
been so lucky.

If you have an I386 directory, and if it's not totally stripped down (in
particular, if it has at least one of Winnt.exe and/or Winnt32.exe), you
have enough to get Windows reloaded. This is the "guts" of Windows CD.
You may have to engage in a multi-step process, and it won't be
bootable, but burning the I386 folder to a CD will give you enough to do
the job if you know how (and, again, as long as one of the setup
programs is on the CD).

Getting a system loaded so that it will boot is one thing. Getting it
loaded so that, these days, it passes all of the WGA tests and allows
you to use Windows update is another matter entirely.


mike wrote:

> Jerohm wrote:
>
>> I have an old Dell XPS (750MHz) computer that has NT 4.0 loaded. I
>> have a Dell Home XP installation disk from another computer (which
>> refuses to load on anything but a Dell Computer). I have a broken
>> Sony Notebook with Dell Home XP. Can I (re-)use the Product Key from
>> the broken Sony with the Dell XP installation disk?? I don't really
>> care if lose all the old disk info ...
>>
> I don't think there is a clear answer, but I can give you some personal
> anectotes.
> Bought a used Toshiba laptop. Was full of viri, so needed to reload it.
> Couldn't find any "legal" way to get XP reloaded...short of buying XP a
> second time.
>
> Bought a Velocity Micro laptop. It came with a CD.
> Loaded the CD on the Toshiba. It accepted the Toshiba license code, but
> refused
> to activate online. Phone call to BOB, interesting how many people with
> thick Indian accents are named Bob, and I was activated.
>
> Bought a Compaq laptop. Still had the i386 directory, but no way to
> make a disk from it. Seems that the disk maker deletes itself after you
> use it once??? No obvious...or non-obvious...way to get it back.
> Not much help for second owner.
> I got determined and after three days of messing around, I had an XP
> reinstall disk with SP2 slipstreamed into it.
> I did all the debugging on a desktop. The CD accepted the laptop
> license key, but put up the activation nag screen.
> When I got it all done, I installed it on the Compaq. Same key, but
> this time it does not nag for activation.
>
> I'm not sure if this implies anything except that you get different
> results depending on the CD you use, the License Key and the hardware.
>
> What IS clear is that any 12 year old can get a bootleg XP running in
> half an hour.
> It took me three days to get a LEGAL system reloaded. Seems backwards
> to me...and it gets backwarder with every new MS OS. Can't wait for the
> next generation: "Insert Credit Card to start your computer..."
> mike
>

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4547F4F0.1020005@neo.rr.com...
>A few comments:
>
> It's possible to extract the product key from a running system. All good
> techs should have a program that does this. So if you don't know the key,
> before wiping the hard drive, even if the machine is badly infected or
> malfunctioning, get the old code first so that you can use it for the
> reload. (search for "keyfinder" or "magical" or "jellybean")
>

You don't need any program to do this. The registration information is
conveniently held in a file called wpa.dbl stored in c:\windows\system32.
Provided you make a copy of this file (and I would include wpa.bak as well),
*but not on the disc you are about to wipe*, you can then reinstall windows.
You theoretically have 30 days to activate the reinstallation. Shut down
and then boot into safe mode and into the administrator account. Now copy
the two files back into c:\windows\system32 and then reboot normally.
Windows should now be activated. Note that this file also contains the
hardware fit, so using this method to install Windows to a completely
different PC will trigger a reactivation.

> The fact that the CD from the Velocity Micro would not activate online was
> probably due to the new policy at MS (no online activations of large OEM
> copies of XP since Feb. 2005 unless they are bios-locked). If it had been
> bios locked (to Velocity Micro), it would not have run on the Dell at all.
>
> You are lucky that you were given a new product key. On a different day,
> with a different call center representative, you might not have been so
> lucky.
>

The personnel seem to vary. Some will reactivate without asking any
questions. Some will give you the third degree.

> If you have an I386 directory, and if it's not totally stripped down (in
> particular, if it has at least one of Winnt.exe and/or Winnt32.exe), you
> have enough to get Windows reloaded. This is the "guts" of Windows CD.
> You may have to engage in a multi-step process, and it won't be bootable,
> but burning the I386 folder to a CD will give you enough to do the job if
> you know how (and, again, as long as one of the setup programs is on the
> CD).
>
> Getting a system loaded so that it will boot is one thing. Getting it
> loaded so that, these days, it passes all of the WGA tests and allows you
> to use Windows update is another matter entirely.
>
>
> mike wrote:
>
>> Jerohm wrote:
>>
>>> I have an old Dell XPS (750MHz) computer that has NT 4.0 loaded. I have
>>> a Dell Home XP installation disk from another computer (which refuses to
>>> load on anything but a Dell Computer). I have a broken Sony Notebook
>>> with Dell Home XP. Can I (re-)use the Product Key from the broken Sony
>>> with the Dell XP installation disk?? I don't really care if lose all
>>> the old disk info ...
>>>
>> I don't think there is a clear answer, but I can give you some personal
>> anectotes.
>> Bought a used Toshiba laptop. Was full of viri, so needed to reload it.
>> Couldn't find any "legal" way to get XP reloaded...short of buying XP a
>> second time.
>>
>> Bought a Velocity Micro laptop. It came with a CD.
>> Loaded the CD on the Toshiba. It accepted the Toshiba license code, but
>> refused
>> to activate online. Phone call to BOB, interesting how many people with
>> thick Indian accents are named Bob, and I was activated.
>>
>> Bought a Compaq laptop. Still had the i386 directory, but no way to make
>> a disk from it. Seems that the disk maker deletes itself after you use
>> it once??? No obvious...or non-obvious...way to get it back.
>> Not much help for second owner.
>> I got determined and after three days of messing around, I had an XP
>> reinstall disk with SP2 slipstreamed into it.
>> I did all the debugging on a desktop. The CD accepted the laptop
>> license key, but put up the activation nag screen.
>> When I got it all done, I installed it on the Compaq. Same key, but this
>> time it does not nag for activation.
>>
>> I'm not sure if this implies anything except that you get different
>> results depending on the CD you use, the License Key and the hardware.
>>
>> What IS clear is that any 12 year old can get a bootleg XP running in
>> half an hour.
>> It took me three days to get a LEGAL system reloaded. Seems backwards to
>> me...and it gets backwarder with every new MS OS. Can't wait for the
>> next generation: "Insert Credit Card to start your computer..."
>> mike
>>

Barry,

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:45476522.80709@neo.rr.com...
> Also, ***IF*** the copy of XP is "BIOS Locked", then no activation is
> necessary even for a reinstallation. Bios locking is optional, the
> manufacturer may do it but doesn't have to.

Out of curiosity, what motivation would a manufacturer have for BIOS locking
the copy of XP? Just that... since, with OEM copies of XP that OEM provides
support... they can try to insure you're asking for support on the hardware
they sold you rather than some other machine you went off and installed XP on?

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4547F4F0.1020005@neo.rr.com...
> It's possible to extract the product key from a running system. All good
> techs should have a program that does this.

Besides Googling as you mention, I'd suggest Belarc advisor -- for personal
use it's free and will extract the machine's product key.

> Getting a system loaded so that it will boot is one thing. Getting it
> loaded so that, these days, it passes all of the WGA tests and allows you to
> use Windows update is another matter entirely.

Although I'm sure it's a drop in the bucket compared to the number of (legal)
copies of Windows there are out there, the whole product activation system is
something that I expect is just going to drive many people to toss Windows in
favor of Linux.

BIOS locked copies do not have to be activated (although they can be),
which the manufacturers (and many end-users) view as a PITA.

And, also, it prevents an OEM's copy of XP from being installed on
another machine (e.g. if it's bios locked, you can install a copy of
Dell Windows onto a non-Dell machine).


Joel Kolstad wrote:

> Barry,
>
> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:45476522.80709@neo.rr.com...
>
>>Also, ***IF*** the copy of XP is "BIOS Locked", then no activation is
>>necessary even for a reinstallation. Bios locking is optional, the
>>manufacturer may do it but doesn't have to.
>
>
> Out of curiosity, what motivation would a manufacturer have for BIOS locking
> the copy of XP? Just that... since, with OEM copies of XP that OEM provides
> support... they can try to insure you're asking for support on the hardware
> they sold you rather than some other machine you went off and installed XP on?
>
>
>

Product Activation (PA) has been around since Windows XP came out (2001
or 2002) and it hasn't driven a statistically significant number of
people to Linux yet. Although, with Vista, PA is reaching new heights
(or should I say new lows).

Joel Kolstad wrote:
>
> Although I'm sure it's a drop in the bucket compared to the number of (legal)
> copies of Windows there are out there, the whole product activation system is
> something that I expect is just going to drive many people to toss Windows in
> favor of Linux.
>
>

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:454A657C.1020801@neo.rr.com
> Product Activation (PA) has been around since Windows XP came out
> (2001 or 2002) and it hasn't driven a statistically significant
> number of people to Linux yet. Although, with Vista, PA is reaching
> new heights (or should I say new lows).

How so?

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-6...ml?tag=nl.e589

And I don't see a significant number going to Linux either (which is
just dumbing your computer down to a glorified PDA IMHO). Although I do
predict that sales for Windows XP and Windows 2000 will be picking up a
bit. ;)

--
Bill

"Joel Kolstad" <JKolstad71HatesSpam******.com> wrote in message
news:12kl0gsh7hbcj44@corp.supernews.com
> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
> news:454a6cfc$0$1349$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere. com...
>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:454A657C.1020801@neo.rr.com
>>> Product Activation (PA) has been around since Windows XP came out
>>> (2001 or 2002) and it hasn't driven a statistically significant
>>> number of people to Linux yet. Although, with Vista, PA is reaching
>>> new heights (or should I say new lows).
>>
>> How so?
>
> Particularly among so-called "hardware enthusiasts" -- people who swap
> motherboards and components monthly or even weekly -- product
> activation is annoying enough they just might figure, "screw it!" and
> switch OSes.
> By the number this probably is <0.1% of Windows users, however... it
> *could* turn into "bigger" percentages if you get a few system
> administrators who've gotten fed up enough that they switch entire
> companies over, but that too I think is not particularly likely.
> Realistically, over the long term, I expect that Windows would lose
> market share far more to newcomers choosing Linux due to the
> (apparent) lower cost than current Windows users actively switching.

Only people who like glorified PDAs would like Linux IMHO. As Linux is
always a day late and a dollar short. Even Linus Torvalds said in his
book he even uses Windows. So I only see people buying extra copies of
Windows 2000/XP on eBay myself.

--
Bill