Recently I made the following three posts to the OneNote
discussion group...

change cursor from a dot.
Pointer behaviour in OneNote 2003 is very frustrating.
Make the pen cursor something users can see.

In them I suggested two changes to OneNote which I thought
would be fairly trivial to implement, but would greatly enhance the
utility of the software.

By far the majority of postings to the discussion group are questions about
how to achieve some objective in the software as it exists, rather than
suggested changes or enhancements. This is what would be expected.
Suggestions are far less frequent.

A suggested enhancement is offering a suggested change in the OneNote
paradigm. It may only be a small or wide-sweeping suggestion. I would have
thought that a suggestion would be something which would pique the interest
of Microsoft staff monitoring the group. I thought it would be something to
spark some debate as to the merits and impact of the suggested change.

My two suggestions brought no response from Microsoft. Certainly there is no
compulsion for Microsoft to respond, but I did anticipate that suggestions
would be of some interest and get some reaction, either positive or negative.
I just sat here listening to the crickets chirping.

I have found that Smart Notebook does have the capability I am after. So I
don't need OneNote after all.

I won't say thanks for listening, but goodbye and good luck.

Cheers,
Ad Astra

I'm sorry we've dissapointed you. It's sad to hear OneNote didn't live up to
your demands but thank you for trying and for the feedback.

===
For the sake of setting some expectations wrt feature suggestions I also
feel obliged to reply to this post with more details.

1. The newsgroups is a community and there is no dedicated MS person who
monitores, replies and follows up on the posts. Different people from the
team do look at them though, and try to analize the problems people are
seeing, usability issues and... suggestions.

2. We respond only if we feel respond is expected. So if you've posted a
suggestion we've read it and filed away among many other suggestions that
come to us through different channels. Some suggestions might cause
discussions on the newsgroups but we neither discourage nor promote it.

3. Some changes are much harder to implement than it might seem. We have
constraints of existing architecture, shared code we re-use, etc... Even if
the feature is inded easy to implement it would be still weightened against
many other features we'd like to add. The comparison is based on which
scenarios it enables, how many people does it affect, how well it fits into
existing logic of the application and so on. (I cannot tell how many of my
pet features were cut from the schedule time after time, sigh...)

-Irina

"Ad Astra" wrote:

> Recently I made the following three posts to the OneNote
> discussion group...
>
> change cursor from a dot.
> Pointer behaviour in OneNote 2003 is very frustrating.
> Make the pen cursor something users can see.
>
> In them I suggested two changes to OneNote which I thought
> would be fairly trivial to implement, but would greatly enhance the
> utility of the software.
>
> By far the majority of postings to the discussion group are questions about
> how to achieve some objective in the software as it exists, rather than
> suggested changes or enhancements. This is what would be expected.
> Suggestions are far less frequent.
>
> A suggested enhancement is offering a suggested change in the OneNote
> paradigm. It may only be a small or wide-sweeping suggestion. I would have
> thought that a suggestion would be something which would pique the interest
> of Microsoft staff monitoring the group. I thought it would be something to
> spark some debate as to the merits and impact of the suggested change.
>
> My two suggestions brought no response from Microsoft. Certainly there is no
> compulsion for Microsoft to respond, but I did anticipate that suggestions
> would be of some interest and get some reaction, either positive or negative.
> I just sat here listening to the crickets chirping.
>
> I have found that Smart Notebook does have the capability I am after. So I
> don't need OneNote after all.
>
> I won't say thanks for listening, but goodbye and good luck.
>
> Cheers,
> Ad Astra

Ad Astra shared these words of wisdom:

> Recently I made the following three posts to the OneNote
> discussion group...
>
> change cursor from a dot.
> Pointer behaviour in OneNote 2003 is very frustrating.
> Make the pen cursor something users can see.

I saw them but initially had difficulties in fully understanding you.
And the no time to go through the issues carfuully enough.
I still have it on my ToDo stack.

> My two suggestions brought no response from Microsoft. Certainly
> there is no compulsion for Microsoft to respond, but I did
> anticipate that suggestions would be of some interest and get some
> reaction, either positive or negative. I just sat here listening to
> the crickets chirping.

AFAICS you are just expecting too much when expecting to receive
replies from MS in this Newsgroup.
The NGs are *peer-to-peer* forums where volunteers try to help other
users.

For reporting bugs and submitting suggestions for the program there is
"Connct" where one talks directly to the dveloppers.

So it was my suggsteion not to give up as sson as you are ding.
Just point in "Conncet"
www.connct.microsoft.com.
Having done so, you might drop a note here so that we get to know and
may jump on.

Hoing not to see leaving

Rainald

"Ad Astra" <AdAstra@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:34880DFC-8B74-4C75-8DA1-B3D5917CFD76@microsoft.com...

> I have found that Smart Notebook does have the capability I am after. So I
> don't need OneNote after all.


It might be interesting that, once you get used to using Smart Notebook, you
post back with what you like better about that product over OneNote usage,
strengths and weaknesses, etc. - it could be beneficial to other users. It
could even help others to use OneNote more efficiently.

Hi Rainald,

I wasn't going to bother to reply, but I can't stop myself :-)

"Rainald Taesler" wrote:

> Ad Astra shared these words of wisdom:
>
> > Recently I made the following three posts to the OneNote
> > discussion group...
> >
> > change cursor from a dot.
> > Pointer behaviour in OneNote 2003 is very frustrating.
> > Make the pen cursor something users can see.
>
> I saw them but initially had difficulties in fully understanding you.
> And the no time to go through the issues carfuully enough.
> I still have it on my ToDo stack.

I went to a great deal of trouble to provide clear and detailed explanantions.

In one case I described how the pointer capability is supposed to allow the
user to highlight something of interest to an audience and then go on to
discuss the point of interest, but the pointer is removed by OneNote by a
stupid timer - totally silly.

A great concept killed by crazy implementation. Oh well, who cares?

> > My two suggestions brought no response from Microsoft. Certainly
> > there is no compulsion for Microsoft to respond, but I did
> > anticipate that suggestions would be of some interest and get some
> > reaction, either positive or negative. I just sat here listening to
> > the crickets chirping.
>
> AFAICS you are just expecting too much when expecting to receive
> replies from MS in this Newsgroup.
> The NGs are *peer-to-peer* forums where volunteers try to help other
> users.
>
> For reporting bugs and submitting suggestions for the program there is
> "Connct" where one talks directly to the dveloppers.

There is a bug there so it is not possible to make suggestions about OneNote
at connect. Try it and you will see what I mean.

> So it was my suggsteion not to give up as sson as you are ding.
> Just point in "Conncet"
> www.connct.microsoft.com.
> Having done so, you might drop a note here so that we get to know and
> may jump on.
>
> Hoing not to see leaving
>
> Rainald
>
>

Ad Astra shared these words of wisdom:

>> For reporting bugs and submitting suggestions for the program
>> there is "Connct" where one talks directly to the dveloppers.
>
> There is a bug there so it is not possible to make suggestions
> about OneNote at connect. Try it and you will see what I mean.
>
I was having troubles when posting there during the Beta eralier this
year.
The system just di not want to let me in.
But then it worked.

Will have to try it when through with the rest of the new things in
here.

Rainald

Ad Astra shared these words of wisdom:

> I have found that Smart Notebook does have the capability I am
> after. So I don't need OneNote after all.

Would you have a reference for "Smart Notebook" so that I might have a
look on it?
Did not yet across this application.

Rainald

Ad Astra shared these words of wisdom:

>> For reporting bugs and submitting suggestions for the program
>> there is "Connct" where one talks directly to the dveloppers.
>
> There is a bug there so it is not possible to make suggestions
> about OneNote at connect. Try it and you will see what I mean.

I'm awfully sorry.
My mistake!

As a well known "TypoKing" [siiiigh] I did mis-type the word "Connect"
twice [grrrrrrh]

You'll reach the site under:
https://connect.microsoft.com/onenot...eFeedback.aspx

Pls let me know should even this not work for you.

Rainald

"Rainald Taesler" wrote:

> Ad Astra shared these words of wisdom:
>
> >> For reporting bugs and submitting suggestions for the program
> >> there is "Connct" where one talks directly to the dveloppers.
> >
> > There is a bug there so it is not possible to make suggestions
> > about OneNote at connect. Try it and you will see what I mean.
>
> I'm awfully sorry.
> My mistake!
>
> As a well known "TypoKing" [siiiigh] I did mis-type the word "Connect"
> twice [grrrrrrh]
>
> You'll reach the site under:
> https://connect.microsoft.com/onenot...eFeedback.aspx
>
> Pls let me know should even this not work for you.

If the user follows all of the instructions step by step you are in a loop
and you can never leave a comment in OneNote connect. Just try it for
yourself.

> Rainald
>
>

the connect site is a little weird in that after signing up for the "Connect"
program, you have to then sign up for the project, such as OneNote 2007
beta". if you only sign up for connect it will loop as you describe.

the pen dot cursor is what you see in pen mode because that's what makes
sense if you are using a pen (like on a tablet PC). You don't lose the dot
because it is right underneath your pen tip (and it would be very distracting
to have anything other than a dot - I know you said you don't think so in
your other post but most people found it unnatural in tests the tablet PC
team did). When you use an indirect pointing device like a mouse or external
pen+tablet, or show the screen on a projector you're right that the cursor is
hard to see when in ink mode. It is a little difficult for OneNote to know
which device you are using since they all appear as a mouse to us but it's
possible with some extra work it could be figured out. One to add to the
list. if you are not actually writign ink, you coudl just leave the pointer
in selection mode (arrow), or use a highlighter pen.

As to ink in a shared session disappearing on a timer (what I think you are
referring to in your post at pne point), uncheck the box in the task pane
that refers to this (in 2003 it had an unclear name of "use pen as pointer"
but in 2007 it is more clearly labelled as disappearing ink). This is by
design so you can circle things without messing up the text/diagram
permanently (as you see in sports broadcasts sometimes)

Chris

--
OneNote Program Manager


"Ad Astra" wrote:

>
>
> "Rainald Taesler" wrote:
>
> > Ad Astra shared these words of wisdom:
> >
> > >> For reporting bugs and submitting suggestions for the program
> > >> there is "Connct" where one talks directly to the dveloppers.
> > >
> > > There is a bug there so it is not possible to make suggestions
> > > about OneNote at connect. Try it and you will see what I mean.
> >
> > I'm awfully sorry.
> > My mistake!
> >
> > As a well known "TypoKing" [siiiigh] I did mis-type the word "Connect"
> > twice [grrrrrrh]
> >
> > You'll reach the site under:
> > https://connect.microsoft.com/onenot...eFeedback.aspx
> >
> > Pls let me know should even this not work for you.
>
> If the user follows all of the instructions step by step you are in a loop
> and you can never leave a comment in OneNote connect. Just try it for
> yourself.
>
> > Rainald
> >
> >

Chris Pratley (MS) shared these words of wisdom:

> the pen dot cursor is what you see in pen mode because that's what
> makes sense if you are using a pen (like on a tablet PC). You don't
> lose the dot because it is right underneath your pen tip (and it
> would be very distracting to have anything other than a dot - I
> know you said you don't think so in your other post but most people
> found it unnatural in tests the tablet PC team did).

I agree that when being in *editing* mode a different cursor would be
distracting.
But how about an *additional* "pointing mode"?
IMHO an extra icon in the toolbar for showing a "pointer" (be it an
arrow or a hand like in Acrobat) would be of real help.

> When you use
> an indirect pointing device like a mouse or external pen+tablet, or
> show the screen on a projector you're right that the cursor is hard
> to see when in ink mode.

Maybe I do not fully understand you. But I cannot see any difference
in so far.

> It is a little difficult for OneNote to
> know which device you are using since they all appear as a mouse to
> us but it's possible with some extra work it could be figured out.
> One to add to the list.

IMO the appearance should not be device specific.
When using a projector in the lecture hall connected to my TabletPC
I'm naturally using the pen and not a mouse!

> if you are not actually writing ink, you
> could just leave the pointer in selection mode (arrow), or use a
> highlighter pen.

How can one use the *arrow* if the cursor is over a page?
Am I missing something?
The only choice I could find so far is either the caret or a
highlighter pen. Having set the cursor scheme to "extra big" the caret
is what I prefer. Even the broadest highlighter appears as a rather
small rectangle.

Rainald

I emailed this same request to Microsoft over a year ago, for the reason that Chris stated.

I use my tablet to teach a class where it's connected to a projector. I like to "point" with the mouse/pen at things, but the dot is too small to see on the projector. The "use pen as pointer" kind of works, but it's a pain to toggle back and forth. It would be much nicer if there was just an option for a regular pointer in ink mode.

I have to resort to making funny markings or usually I flip the pen over so the icon turns into an eraser that the class can see, and I point at things with the eraser (unfortunately sometimes I end up erasing by mistake).

Changing to selection mode doesn't really work too well either because then you end up selecting a bunch of stuff. If there was a "pointer" mode that behaves like a mouse pointer even in pen down that might be handy, and would also be useful on a machine with a passive digitizer.

I think that programs should be fully customizable as well. In the
meantime, you could try using a red highlighter (change the custom pen
using the drawing toolbar). That seems to work well for me when I need
to point in the same manner that you are talking about.

--
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<http://www.erikpaul.net/index2.php?option=ds-syndicate&version=1&feed_id=4>
submit requests for OneNote 14: here
<http://www.erikpaul.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=7>
my home page http://www.erikpaul.net

Kenrick wrote:
> I emailed this same request to Microsoft over a year ago, for the reason
> that Chris stated.
>
> I use my tablet to teach a class where it's connected to a projector.
> I like to "point" with the mouse/pen at things, but the dot is too
> small to see on the projector. The "use pen as pointer" kind of works,
> but it's a pain to toggle back and forth. It would be much nicer if
> there was just an option for a regular pointer in ink mode.
>
> I have to resort to making funny markings or usually I flip the pen
> over so the icon turns into an eraser that the class can see, and I
> point at things with the eraser (unfortunately sometimes I end up
> erasing by mistake).
>
> Changing to selection mode doesn't really work too well either because
> then you end up selecting a bunch of stuff. If there was a "pointer"
> mode that behaves like a mouse pointer even in pen down that might be
> handy, and would also be useful on a machine with a passive digitizer.
>
>

Erik Gulbrandsen shared these words of wisdom:

> In the
> meantime, you could try using a red highlighter (change the custom
> pen using the drawing toolbar). That seems to work well for me
> when I need to point in the same manner that you are talking about.

Does not do the job for me. It's just to small and students in the
back half of the lecture hall will not see it.

Rainald

Kenrick shared these words of wisdom:

> I use my tablet to teach a class where it's connected to a
> projector.
> I like to "point" with the mouse/pen at things, but the dot is too
> small to see on the projector.

Only too true .. :-( :-(

> The "use pen as pointer" kind of
> works, but it's a pain to toggle back and forth.

How do manage to get pen as a "pointer"?

Rainald