On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:57:08 +0000, Rich Leitner wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:15:23 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>
>> Suggested reading for anyone who would like to know the truth, in great
>> detail, about the people and companies involved in the microcomputer
>> revolution (Microsoft, Apple, Sierra On-Line, The MIT electric train
>> club, etc...)
>>
>> Including the origin story of the term "Hacker".
>>
>> Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution ISBN-10: 0141000511
>> http://www.amazon.com/Hackers-Comput...n-Steven-Levy/
>
> Good book, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I recommend it as well. Levy's book
> "Crypto" is also very good.

I haven't read that one. I think I'll pick it up. Thanks.

Moe Trin wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux, in article
> <87tzfhfvu8.fsf@thumper.dhh.gt.org>, John Hasler wrote:
>
>> Man-wai Chang ToDie wrote:
>>> ON the other hand, Mr. Gates is basically a DOS guy. And DOS got its
>>> ideas from Unix, I boldly claim...
>
> No
>
>> MSDOS got all its ideas (and some of its code) from CP/M, which got many of
>> its ideas from TOPS-10 and other DEC OS's.
>
> Do you believe Eric S. Raymond and the Jargon file?
>
> :MS-DOS: /M·S·dos/, n
>
> [MicroSoft Disk Operating System] A {clone} of {CP/M} for the 8088
> crufted together in 6 weeks by hacker Tim Paterson at Seattle
> Computer Products, who called the original QDOS (Quick and Dirty
> Operating System) and is said to have regretted it ever since.
> Microsoft licensed QDOS in order to have something to demo for IBM on
> time, and the rest is history. Numerous features, including vaguely
> Unix-like but rather broken support for subdirectories, I/O
> redirection, and pipelines, were hacked into Microsoft's 2.0 and
> subsequent versions; as a result, there are two or more incompatible
> versions of many system calls, and MS-DOS programmers can never agree
> on basic things like what character to use as an option switch or
> whether to be case-sensitive. The resulting appalling mess is now the
>
> [snippity]
>
> That definition continues for 21 lines, and the items for 'CP/M' and
> 'DEC' would be enlightening to some.
>
> Old guy


That definition is accurate.

Ivan Marsh wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:57:08 +0000, Rich Leitner wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:15:23 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>
>>> Suggested reading for anyone who would like to know the truth, in great
>>> detail, about the people and companies involved in the microcomputer
>>> revolution (Microsoft, Apple, Sierra On-Line, The MIT electric train
>>> club, etc...)
>>>
>>> Including the origin story of the term "Hacker".
>>>
>>> Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution ISBN-10: 0141000511
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Hackers-Comput...n-Steven-Levy/
>> Good book, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I recommend it as well. Levy's book
>> "Crypto" is also very good.
>
> I haven't read that one. I think I'll pick it up. Thanks.
>

Bill Poletti wrote several critical articles related to that book. They
were pretty good but I can't find the links anymore.

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:37:50 -0500, Peaceful Bill wrote:

> Ivan Marsh wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:57:08 +0000, Rich Leitner wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:15:23 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>>
>>>> Suggested reading for anyone who would like to know the truth, in
>>>> great detail, about the people and companies involved in the
>>>> microcomputer revolution (Microsoft, Apple, Sierra On-Line, The MIT
>>>> electric train club, etc...)
>>>>
>>>> Including the origin story of the term "Hacker".
>>>>
>>>> Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution ISBN-10: 0141000511
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Hackers-Comput...n-Steven-Levy/
>>> Good book, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I recommend it as well. Levy's
>>> book "Crypto" is also very good.
>>
>> I haven't read that one. I think I'll pick it up. Thanks.
>>
>>
> Bill Poletti wrote several critical articles related to that book. They
> were pretty good but I can't find the links anymore.

Which book, "Crypto" or "Hackers"? Can't vouch too much for "Hackers",
but most of the stuff in "Crypto" I've seen in other sources too, like
Kahn's "The Codebreakers" and various 'Cryptologia' magazine articles.

If you can find the links, I'd be very interested (regardless of which
book you were referring to).

Rich Leitner wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:37:50 -0500, Peaceful Bill wrote:
>
>> Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:57:08 +0000, Rich Leitner wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:15:23 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Suggested reading for anyone who would like to know the truth, in
>>>>> great detail, about the people and companies involved in the
>>>>> microcomputer revolution (Microsoft, Apple, Sierra On-Line, The MIT
>>>>> electric train club, etc...)
>>>>>
>>>>> Including the origin story of the term "Hacker".
>>>>>
>>>>> Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution ISBN-10: 0141000511
>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Hackers-Comput...n-Steven-Levy/
>>>> Good book, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I recommend it as well. Levy's
>>>> book "Crypto" is also very good.
>>> I haven't read that one. I think I'll pick it up. Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>> Bill Poletti wrote several critical articles related to that book. They
>> were pretty good but I can't find the links anymore.
>
> Which book, "Crypto" or "Hackers"? Can't vouch too much for "Hackers",
> but most of the stuff in "Crypto" I've seen in other sources too, like
> Kahn's "The Codebreakers" and various 'Cryptologia' magazine articles.
>
> If you can find the links, I'd be very interested (regardless of which
> book you were referring to).

It was "Crypto". Poletti looked at the practical side. Seemed to make
a lot of sense. Was looking for the links earlier, but all I can find
about him is MasterCard, SET and some conferences.

On Jun 25, 8:48*am, Allodoxaphobia <bit-buc...@config.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:54:51 +0800, Man-wai Chang ToDie (33.6k) wrote:
>
> >> He even goes on to say he stopped using windows since the last 3 years!
> >> PS: Why do I smell a rat ?
>
> > ON the other hand, Mr. Gates is basically a DOS guy.
> > And DOS got its ideas from Unix, I boldly claim...
>
> And, Mr Gates got DOS from someone else -- which was the beginning of
> the m$ business model.
>
> [Mai-wai: please fix your news client to include attribution.]

no, MS-DOS through 4.01 had 2 programmers.
PC-DOS is re-worked, ground up.
NDOS, or New DOS is a free version.
I run FreeDOS, which is excellent since I install updates to BIOS with
it, on a linux box.

The windowing system was first done in Unix. XBase is still
available.

Compatibility is shaky at best with virtual machines. Lindows is your
best option. As, it includes DOS emulation, validated win code, and
various kernel options for linux.

For maximum productivity. Try full blown Unix. With hardware
options. Development kits, start at around $15,000US.