On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 11:02:17 -0400, jim wrote:

> I've been in enough Linux groups to know that the best things they are for
> is accusing those trying to adopt Linux more of being trolls, bashing
> Microsoft and praising Linux - while offering ****ed little in the way of
> actual help to anyone that asks.
>
> Do I want help? ****ed right.
>
> Will I get it here? I don't think it exists.

OK then, you may as well be leaving now (for good).

Buh-bye.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
Now filtering out all posts originating from Google Groups.
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org

Lim-Dul wrote:
> On 2008-06-12 19:33, caver1 wrote:
>> COLA is probably the worst place to go. There are some here that are
>> bad but when you come in with an attitude that's all you'll get
>> back. When the attitude leaves you'll get more help. You can also try
>> Ubuntuforums.org. I find more answers there than here.
>> caver1
>
> I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't have gotten more help on the
> Ubuntuforums if the first couple of posts looked like the posts on this
> newsgroup. ;-)
>
> Besides - Jim DID get some advice, I'd say more than he deserved with
> this attitude, even though his "help requests" looked more like showing
> his discontent with Linux in general instead and I almost expected him
> to simply leave this OS be if he hates it so much...
>
> Best regards,
>
> Lim-Dul



I agree.
caver1

sk8r-365 wrote:

> Feverishly pounding upon a keyboard Christopher Hunter typed:
>
> <snip>
>> The latest form of ransom malware is positively scary -
>>
>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=1251
>
> That's just ugly!

No doubt the Windoze advocates will suggest "recover the data from backups",
but Windoze lacks a proper backup strategy, and most of the third-party
programs are useless.

Also (apparently) Windows also lacks tools for verifying the content of a
file - it can't even do a simple CRC / checksum, so the corruption of files
might not be noticed for some time, by which time the "good" originals are
long gone...

C.

Anthony Carl Perkins wrote:

> On the flip side, Windows is not ready out of the box to play well on an
> all-Linux network (NIS, NFS, etc) without installing Windows Services
> for Unix.

It's funny that Windows is a /very/ poor proprietary client for a Unix /
Linux world. It must /really/ annoy Gates and his pals that /nobody/ hosts
significant sites on Windoze, and that the only way they can increase their
apparent "sales" is by giving away Windoze to 'net "parking sites" like
GoDaddy!

C.

[jim]
> I offered money and free beer (as in free beer) to the maintainers of the
> code base. They were not interested.

But did you offer it to the community?

That's something it's possible to do with FOSS, but impossible with
closed source.

> At least with proprietary code-based busineses you have a barganing chip -
> your business. They fix it or lose you as a stream of revenue. With FOSS,
> you don't even have that.

I tend to disagree - you bought the software once, and the company
already got their revenue. Or you're just a tiny insignificant part
of the revenue stream. Point out some bugs in Microsoft Excel, and I'd
daresay the likelihood of a quick fix is quite small. As long as the
bug isn't significant for a significant part of the customer base,
it's not even likely that it ever will get fixed.

--
Tobias Brox, 69°42'N, 18°57'E

"Tobias Brox" <tobias@stud.cs.uit.no> wrote in message
news:g2s93l$1oda$1@news.uit.no...
> [jim]
>> I offered money and free beer (as in free beer) to the maintainers of the
>> code base. They were not interested.
>
> But did you offer it to the community?

The code writers of FOSS *ARE* the community. They're the ones doing the
work. They should get the payoff.

I donate to other FOSS project that I use, because I want them to continue
updating and producing good software. Unfortunately, I am also
insignificant in this respect - as my donations are hardly enough to keep
the coders' families fed.

Most FOSS projects die within 5 years just because people have to feed their
families. Just look at the FOSS Graveyard (aka sourceforge.net) and that's
all the proof you need of the unsustainability of most FOSS projects.

> That's something it's possible to do with FOSS, but impossible with
> closed source.

I'd have to disagree. Where, with FOSS, it's your choice to give, with
closed source it's mostly required that you give to get anything done.

>
>> At least with proprietary code-based busineses you have a barganing
>> chip -
>> your business. They fix it or lose you as a stream of revenue. With
>> FOSS,
>> you don't even have that.
>
> I tend to disagree - you bought the software once, and the company
> already got their revenue.

But they'll miss out on future revenue from upgrades and new versions and
add-ons and service agreements, etc......

>Or you're just a tiny insignificant part
> of the revenue stream.

For the most part, this is correct. Any single individual is largely
insignificant when looked at from the % of revenue that s/he brings to a
software company.

But, good companies don't look at user as simple revenue streams. They also
see them as walking, talking ads for their products. Ever read a little
book called "Raving Fans"? I highly recommend it for anyone hoping to gain
marketshare (FOSS or not).

> Point out some bugs in Microsoft Excel, and I'd
> daresay the likelihood of a quick fix is quite small. As long as the
> bug isn't significant for a significant part of the customer base,
> it's not even likely that it ever will get fixed.

You are correct. I have pointed out bugs in MS software myself. I was
finally told by an MS employee that unless at least 1,000,000 people
cmplained, the problem would probably go unfixed. I have never called with
another bug. I simply prefer smaller, more responsive software firms to buy
my packages from now....and I'm not exactly a walking, talking ad for MS.

jim

On 2008-06-12, jim <jim@home.net> wrote:
>
> Most FOSS projects die within 5 years just because people have to feed their
> families. Just look at the FOSS Graveyard (aka sourceforge.net) and that's
> all the proof you need of the unsustainability of most FOSS projects.

FOSS projects die for a number of reasons, feeding the familiy is not the
only, or even the primary reason. Sourceforge is a bad example. People get
excited about an idea, run off to sourceforge open and account ( whatever )
then....then nothing. They discover it's been done or is being done. Most
dead projects at SF never even posted files.



ken

jim wrote:

> I am posting here more out of sheer desperation than in any hopes of
> actually getting an answer.
>
> I've been in enough Linux groups to know that the best things they are
> for is accusing those trying to adopt Linux more of being trolls,
> bashing Microsoft and praising Linux - while offering ****ed little in
> the way of actual help to anyone that asks.
>
> Do I want help? *****ed right.
>
> Will I get it here? *I don't think it exists.

You have been offered help by several of those subscribed to the
newsgroups on which your posts appear. If however, as you earlier
stated, you need help with a specific problem with software written
in 'C'.

> ... Well, not really. I offered to help where I could (sacrificing a
> goat, providing beer or money) but was told that the only help needed
> was to fix the code. Unfortunately for me, I don't know C coding...

The solution seems to be beyond that that can be offered by someone on
one of the newsgroups you are posting to. You do not, as far as I can
see, specify the software that you consider needs to be re-written. The
answer to your problem, with this piece of unspecified software, you
have already diagnosed, you need a software engineer/consultant/coder
to rewrite the code. As it seems to be essential to your business to
have this done, then what you need to do is find someone to do this for
you. You will have to pay them the current rate for that kind of work.
You are probably right in that that kind of 'help' is not offered on
any of the newsgroups on which your posts are propagated.

The apparent answer to your problem seems be that you need to find a
software engineer/consultant/coder. You could not do this for Microsoft
Software as such a software engineer/consultant/coder would have no
access to the source code. With FOSS the source code to the software
you have problems with is available. All you need to do is employ
someone with the skills you lack, to make the software suit your needs,
the resultant modified software can then be published for the benefit
of others.

--
Nemo
"Feather-footed through the plashy fen passes the questing vole"

* dennis@home wrote in alt.os.linux:

>
>
> "sk8r-365" <sk8r-365@sk8r.debian.etch.invalid.org> wrote in message
> news:qLednR2Xb_hO9szVnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@bresnan.com. ..
>> Feverishly pounding upon a keyboard Christopher Hunter typed:
>>
>> <snip>
>>> The latest form of ransom malware is positively scary -
>>>
>>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=1251
>>
>> That's just ugly!
>
> Totally ineffective though, you just restore your backup.
>
>
>

yeah, because EVERYONE backsup their data.

s/Totally/Occasionally/

--
David

Feverishly pounding upon a keyboard dennis@home typed:
>
>
> "sk8r-365" <sk8r-365@sk8r.debian.etch.invalid.org> wrote in message
> news:qLednR2Xb_hO9szVnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@bresnan.com. ..
>> Feverishly pounding upon a keyboard Christopher Hunter typed:
>>
>> <snip>
>>> The latest form of ransom malware is positively scary -
>>>
>>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=1251
>>
>> That's just ugly!
>
> Totally ineffective though, you just restore your backup.

It's meaningless for we Linux users ... for Windows folks, OTOH.

--
sk8r-365
The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single,
thy whole body shall be full of light. -- Matthew 6:22

On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 11:02:17 -0400
"jim" <jim@home.net> wrote:

> I'll be honest with you TJ, I don't expect an honest answer in these groups.

Thus you are seeing what you expect. Not that people are answering you
dishonestly but that you expect it, so you perceive it incorrectly.

Do not expect Linux to work with M$ proprietary networks "out of the box". That
is the wrong expectation unless the distribution you choose states that as a
feature. Install 'LinNeighborhood' alongside SAMBA and let 'LinNeighborhood' do
the work of browsing the M$ shares for you. I have used 'LinNeighborhood' on my
laptop when at client sites rife with M$-ware and it works fine for browsing
and connecting to unsecured shares. Another option is 'smb4k' which has similar
functionality but a KDE style interface.

Gene (e-mail: usenet0 \a\t eracc \d\o\t com)
blog.eracc.com latest article: http://preview.tinyurl.com/6qa5qr
'What is Spring Football?'
--
Mandriva Linux release 2007.1 (Official) for i586
Got Rute? http://www.anrdoezrs.net/email-25465...sbn=0130333514
ERA Computers & Consulting - http://www.eracc.com/
Preloaded PCs - eComStation, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenServer & UnixWare

[Tobias Brox]
> [Getting help from the community is] possible with FOSS, but impossible with
> closed source.

[jim]
> I'd have to disagree. Where, with FOSS, it's your choice to give, with
> closed source it's mostly required that you give to get anything done.

With FOSS, in theory anyone with programming skills can fix the
problem - with proprietary software only the vendor is able. The
vendor may or may not care. Your only argument is that the vendor of
a commercial company is more likely to care than the developer of an
open source package - I don't even think that's true.

--
Tobias Brox, 69°42'N, 18°57'E

[jim]
> Most FOSS projects die within 5 years just because people have to feed their
> families. Just look at the FOSS Graveyard (aka sourceforge.net) and that's
> all the proof you need of the unsustainability of most FOSS projects.

Quite many commercial software projects are canned as well. I've
heard failure rates of 90%. Anyway, does the failure rate matter? I
think the quality and quantity of the successful projects matters more.

--
Tobias Brox, 69°42'N, 18°57'E

On 2008-06-13, Tobias Brox <tobias@stud.cs.uit.no> wrote:
> [jim]
>> Most FOSS projects die within 5 years just because people have to feed their
>> families. Just look at the FOSS Graveyard (aka sourceforge.net) and that's
>> all the proof you need of the unsustainability of most FOSS projects.
>
> Quite many commercial software projects are canned as well. I've
> heard failure rates of 90%. Anyway, does the failure rate matter? I
> think the quality and quantity of the successful projects matters more.

True. I think it is more relevant to see how often peope are hooked into
a system that dies. I've been running public software for many many
years and I can't recall much. I liked qps (Qt process monitor) a lot
and I think is was better than most things I see around now, but that
won't be mission critical. My scanner (Epson) died when moving to the
libusb stuff. That is annoying, but not much different from the
situation around major Windows upgrades. Other than that, I can't recall
I ever had to discontinue using something because the developer stopped.

The figures indeed say little. Many so called open source projects are
just personal or student projects. They are easy enough to avoid if you
want. Would be interesting to see how often big Linux distributions drop
packages due to stopped maintenance/development.

Finally, in the OS community there is a lot more attention to open
format standards, so even if the package goes down it isn't a nightmare.

--- Jan

Jan Wielemaker wrote:

> My scanner (Epson) died when moving to the
> libusb stuff. That is annoying, but not much different from the
> situation around major Windows upgrades. Other than that, I can't recall
> I ever had to discontinue using something because the developer stopped.

I did for a long time patch my kernel source to use the old module for
my scanner, not for my scanner didn't work with libusb, but for it was a
lot easier with setting up privileges when it came to the module.

I didn't have to make any changes in the driver code itself, just add
the files and see to that the option appeared in the menuconfig.

--

//Aho