Linux sucks less..

"Karel Olish" <karel_olish******.com> ???????/???????? ? ???????? ?????????:
news:1130818955.231193.160430@g14g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>
> Rich wrote:
>> The powers that be have banned Linux useage at my high school and also at
>> the college because they claim it is responsible for the hacking virus
>> that we get all the time.
>>
>> I like Linux and while others think it sucks, I don't.
>> Can I do anything to get Linux back on the apporved list?
>> Thank You.
>> Babcock
>
> Look Dude,,,,,,,
>
> Your main goal is to graduate high school/college/whatever.
>
> Linux sucks.
> Your friends tell you so.
> Your teachers tell you so.
>
> So why not get with the program and use what the school requires
> instead of setting yourself up to be some kind of a martyer?
>
> Only an asshole would use Linux when all the "powers to be" as you call
> them, tell you otherwise.
>
> I'll bet your parents are overjoyed that you are wasting their money
> fighting the system instead of earning your degree.
>
> Use your head, ditch Linux and use something that will benefit you
> later on in life.
>
> Anything, anything but Linux because Linux sucks, as you have been
> told.
>

< snip >

And you felt the need to answer a post more than 2 *years* old exactly why?
--
To mess up a Linux box, you need to work at it.
To mess up your Windows box, you just need to work on it.

* Jan Zalavski peremptorily fired off this memo:

> Linux sucks less..
>
> "Karel Olish" <karel_olish******.com> ???????/???????? ? ???????? ?????????:
> news:1130818955.231193.160430@g14g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>
>> Only an asshole would use Linux when all the "powers to be" as you call
>> them, tell you otherwise.

It takes an asshole to buck a pathological closed system.

>> Anything, anything but Linux because Linux sucks, as you have been
>> told.

"Karel Olish" sucks. The "Windows establishment" sucks. Linux sucks,
too, but a lot less.

--
Understand that this is the last physical format there will ever be.
-- Bill Gates, On Blu-ray. interview The Daily Princetonian (14 Oct 2005)

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 13:32:58 +0200, "Jan Zalavski"
<janzalavski@mail.ru> wrote:
<snip>
>>> I like Linux and while others think it sucks, I don't.
>>> Can I do anything to get Linux back on the apporved list?
>>> Thank You.
>>> Babcock
<snip>
===============
There is an old joke with the punch line "there is no reason for
it -- its just company policy." The problem is this isn't a joke
but life. Decisions like this are made all the time by people
with minimal to no knowledge, which segues into the next punch
line "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up."

Malware downloads/infections are common from porn sites which
your classmates may be accessing. It is also common for a lan to
become infected with malware when someone runs a game or porn
video they downloaded at home on the networked computers.

Your system administrator needs to install and correctly
configure a server firewall/blocker and antivirus package, and
install antivirus/antispyware/firewall at each machine. This is
not expensive with an educational site license, but will require
a fair amount of work and maintenance. In many states the porn
site blocking software is required by law.

Actually Linux is *LESS* virus/malware prone than the other
operating system, particularly if you have Firestarter or another
firewall up and running. Not running as "root" unless necessary
adds additional protection.

for info on Firestarter click on
http://www.fs-security.com/
there are many more. google on <linux firewall download>

FWIW -- there is a move by many educational institutions to open
source software, not only because of the potential and actual
software cost savings, but because o/s upgrades [generally] do
not cause expensive peripherals such as printers, scanners, etc.
to stop working. For examples click on
http://www.bellevuelinux.org/linux_educ.html
http://www.linuxelectrons.com/news/r...inux-education
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1...pcworld/141732
http://news.yahoo.com/s/cmp/20080112/tc_cmp/205602879
http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/152/

From a sales/marketing standpoint you need to stress the WIIFM
[what's in it for me] factors from the viewpoint of the person
you are trying to convince.

For your Principal/Superintendent some of these will be "lower
cost [like free]," better stability, and the ability to provide
students with "free" software such as OpenOffice Writer to run on
their home computers under the other operating system, or an
entire "free" Linux package including all usual applications
including word processor, spread sheet, and presentation manager.
These applications can open and write in a large number of
formats to allow easy information interchange. Typesetting/page
layout and web creation software are also available for free.

A few sites [there are many more] with exactly this application
s/he can visit are (not all are "free)
http://www.ubuntu.com/
http://www.freedownloadaday.com/cate...nux-education/
http://www.software112.com/categorie...ation/cat.html
http://www.freedownloadaday.com/cate...ows-education/
http://www.educational-freeware.com/category-K-12.aspx
and many many more.

To download [with high speed internet connection] to burn a live
[demo] cd
http://releases.ubuntu.com/7.10/

I will leave you with another old joke. "Never try to teach a pig
how to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig."

On 2008-01-27, F George McDuffee <gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:

> There is an old joke with the punch line "there is no reason for
> it -- its just company policy." The problem is this isn't a joke
> but life. Decisions like this are made all the time by people
> with minimal to no knowledge, which segues into the next punch
> line "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up."

That reminds me of a time at a previous employer when somebody
brought the whole site's netbios setup to a crashing halt for a
couple days when she installed a copy of NT5 to test something
on her desktop machine and configured it as a domain master.

As a result of this, Linux machines were henceforth banned from
the network.

"We've got to do _something_!"

"_This_ is somethimg..."

"Therefore, we've got do do _this_!"

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I want a VEGETARIAN
at BURRITO to go ... with
visi.com EXTRA MSG!!

On 2008-01-27, F George McDuffee <gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:
> Actually Linux is *LESS* virus/malware prone than the other
> operating system, particularly if you have Firestarter or another
> firewall up and running.

WTF? Firestarter is just a gui for building firewall rules - the
firewall is already built in into any linux (can be switched off
with a kernel recompile).
--
Large Systems Suck. This rule is 100% transitive. If you build one, you suck.
-- Steve Yegge

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 22:21:01 +0000 (UTC), Davorin Vlahovic
<nrubA@ylf.krs.ref.rh> wrote:

>On 2008-01-27, F George McDuffee <gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:
>> Actually Linux is *LESS* virus/malware prone than the other
>> operating system, particularly if you have Firestarter or another
>> firewall up and running.
>
>WTF? Firestarter is just a gui for building firewall rules - the
>firewall is already built in into any linux (can be switched off
>with a kernel recompile).
==========
Indeed Firestarter provides the tools to implement the existing
firewall [in most distros], but how does this help the OP? The
OP is obviously a novice and more than likely the person making
the "rules" knows little or nothing about computers, for example
that their server may well be running Linux so a kernel recompile
[to turn it off?] is not a helpful suggestion.

Now what suggestion(s) do you have to help him persuade the
school/system administrators to allow Linux and linux/open-source
applications on "their" net?

Grant Edwards <grante@visi.com> writes:

>On 2008-01-27, F George McDuffee <gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:


>That reminds me of a time at a previous employer when somebody
>brought the whole site's netbios setup to a crashing halt for a
>couple days when she installed a copy of NT5 to test something
>on her desktop machine and configured it as a domain master.

>As a result of this, Linux machines were henceforth banned from
>the network.

> "We've got to do _something_!"

> "_This_ is somethimg..."

> "Therefore, we've got do do _this_!"

Sounds like the US reaction to 9-11.

* Grant Edwards peremptorily fired off this memo:

> On 2008-01-27, F George McDuffee <gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:
>
>> There is an old joke with the punch line "there is no reason for
>> it -- its just company policy." The problem is this isn't a joke
>> but life. Decisions like this are made all the time by people
>> with minimal to no knowledge, which segues into the next punch
>> line "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up."
>
> That reminds me of a time at a previous employer when somebody
> brought the whole site's netbios setup to a crashing halt for a
> couple days when she installed a copy of NT5 to test something
> on her desktop machine and configured it as a domain master.
>
> As a result of this, Linux machines were henceforth banned from
> the network.
>
> "We've got to do _something_!"
>
> "_This_ is somethimg..."
>
> "Therefore, we've got do do _this_!"

How did they suspect Linux? Did the NT5 employee lie here way out of
trouble?

--
The next generation of interesting software will be done on the Macintosh, not the IBM PC.
-- Bill Gates, BusinessWeek, 26 November 1984

* Davorin Vlahovic peremptorily fired off this memo:

> On 2008-01-27, Linonut <linonut@bollsouth.nut> wrote:
>> "Karel Olish" sucks. The "Windows establishment" sucks. Linux sucks,
>> too, but a lot less.
>
> All software sucks.
> http://blog.arabx.com.au/wp-content/...cksWindows.jpg
>
> Check the sig :)
> --
> Large Systems Suck. This rule is 100% transitive. If you build one, you suck.
> -- Steve Yegge

Computers are cool! Programmers suck!

--
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise.
-- Niccolo Machiavelli

* Davorin Vlahovic peremptorily fired off this memo:

> On 2008-01-27, F George McDuffee <gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:
>> Actually Linux is *LESS* virus/malware prone than the other
>> operating system, particularly if you have Firestarter or another
>> firewall up and running.
>
> WTF? Firestarter is just a gui for building firewall rules - the
> firewall is already built in into any linux (can be switched off
> with a kernel recompile).

No recompile necessary. Just unload the firewall rules.

--
War is just when it is necessary; arms are permissible when there is no hope
except in arms.
-- Niccolo Machiavelli

On 2008-01-28, Linonut <linonut@bollsouth.nut> wrote:

>> That reminds me of a time at a previous employer when somebody
>> brought the whole site's netbios setup to a crashing halt for
>> a couple days when she installed a copy of NT5 to test
>> something on her desktop machine and configured it as a domain
>> master.
>>
>> As a result of this, Linux machines were henceforth banned from
>> the network.
>>
>> "We've got to do _something_!"
>>
>> "_This_ is somethimg..."
>>
>> "Therefore, we've got do do _this_!"
>
> How did they suspect Linux?

They didn't. Nobody really thought that Iraq had WMDs either,
but that didn't stop an invasion. ;)

> Did the NT5 employee lie here way out of trouble?

Nope.

The network nazi hated all things non-microsoft (mainly because
he didn't understand them). He also hated users being able to
do much of anything. The president of the company new zero
about computers, so he let Mr. net-nazi ban Linux, Win9x,
Solaris and *BSD from the network.

Something bad happend and the guy in power used it as an excuse
to attack things he didn't understand/like regardless of
whether they had anything to do with the bad event.

So it goes.

--
Grant

On 2008-01-28, Linonut <linonut@bollsouth.nut> wrote:
> * Davorin Vlahovic peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> On 2008-01-27, F George McDuffee <gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:
>>> Actually Linux is *LESS* virus/malware prone than the other
>>> operating system, particularly if you have Firestarter or another
>>> firewall up and running.
>>
>> WTF? Firestarter is just a gui for building firewall rules - the
>> firewall is already built in into any linux (can be switched off
>> with a kernel recompile).
>
> No recompile necessary. Just unload the firewall rules.

But the firewall is still there :) It might sound as irrelevant
distinction but it's not - the kernel hooks are still there to jump over
when packet arrives. Ie. it still checks the packet if any rules apply
for it even when there are none.

--
Large Systems Suck. This rule is 100% transitive. If you build one, you suck.
-- Steve Yegge

On 2008-01-27, F George McDuffee <gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:
> Indeed Firestarter provides the tools to implement the existing
> firewall [in most distros],

Your expression lacks precision. Firestarted does not "implement
the existing" (?) firewall, it specifies the rules for it.

> but how does this help the OP? The
> OP is obviously a novice and more than likely the person making
> the "rules" knows little or nothing about computers, for example
> that their server may well be running Linux so a kernel recompile
> [to turn it off?] is not a helpful suggestion.

How does it help OP if he's being said the wrong things? If he doesn't
know the distinction between a gui for a built in firewall and the built
in firewall, how's he going to know about addresses and ports, mangled
and split packets, the distinction between stateful and stateless
inspection, etc, etc?

> Now what suggestion(s) do you have to help him persuade the
> school/system administrators to allow Linux and linux/open-source
> applications on "their" net?

I don't care, the post is 2yrs old and the problem is probably solved
by now. If I did care, I'd tell him to order ubuntu/kubuntu cd's
(or roll his own with sw preinstalled, like MiNT) and give it away for
free.

--
Large Systems Suck. This rule is 100% transitive. If you build one, you suck.
-- Steve Yegge

F. George McDuffee <gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> writes:

>On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 22:21:01 +0000 (UTC), Davorin Vlahovic
><nrubA@ylf.krs.ref.rh> wrote:

>>On 2008-01-27, F George McDuffee <gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:
>>> Actually Linux is *LESS* virus/malware prone than the other
>>> operating system, particularly if you have Firestarter or another
>>> firewall up and running.
....
>Now what suggestion(s) do you have to help him persuade the
>school/system administrators to allow Linux and linux/open-source
>applications on "their" net?

I soounded to me like his uni was worried about Linux being the source of
viruses etc which would infect the resto fo the windows machines. This is
probably based on the idea that hackers tend to use Linux (beeeing so much
more configurable, etc) to develope viruses. Thus LInux is bad.
Ie, an incoherent worry that maybe the student, being a linux user is
really a hacker/craker and will be a danger to the net, and that Linux is
dangerous.