Might Micro$haft actually be able to bully those who sell Linux distros
(eg Red Hat) and support, to the point of legal non existence? Then they
shut down the sites giving free distros to individuals like you and me??
NOBODY has the abusive deep pockets like Micro$haft. They can loose every
battle, and win the war.
-Pete


--
Created by Linux; No Micro$oft Products Used

Pete <Pete@nospam.com> writes:

> Might Micro$haft actually be able to bully those who sell Linux distros
> (eg Red Hat) and support, to the point of legal non existence? Then they
> shut down the sites giving free distros to individuals like you and me??
> NOBODY has the abusive deep pockets like Micro$haft. They can loose every
> battle, and win the war.
> -Pete

Ultimately this is a war that they cannot win IF we stick to our
guns. It is a battle of wills, and the lessons of Mahatma Ghandi apply
here as much as they did in the overthrow of British tyranny.

However, we must be united and unwavering in our opposition.

But..., we're not quite to that dire of a situation yet...

By the way, the DMCA is another piece of legislated slavery that must
be defeated with the same tactics. For example, simply refuse to
purchase content, until the media moguls and artists that engage them
are starving.
--
% Randy Yates % "Though you ride on the wheels of tomorrow,
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % you still wander the fields of your
%%% 919-577-9882 % sorrow."
%%%% <yates@ieee.org> % '21st Century Man', *Time*, ELO
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr

Pete writes:
> Might Micro$haft actually be able to bully those who sell Linux distros
> (eg Red Hat) and support, to the point of legal non existence?

Not likely. You think they are going to shut down Oracle and IBM?

> Then they shut down the sites giving free distros to individuals like you
> and me?

How?

> NOBODY has the abusive deep pockets like Micro$haft. They can loose every
> battle, and win the war.

You grossly exaggerate Microsoft's power. Is Microsoft behind SCO? If so,
why is SCO losing?

Randy Yates writes:
> By the way, the DMCA is another piece of legislated slavery that must be
> defeated with the same tactics. For example, simply refuse to purchase
> content, until the media moguls and artists that engage them are
> starving.

You mean I have to start buying their stuff once they start starving? Why?
It'll still be crap.
--
John Hasler
john@dhh.gt.org
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

John Hasler <john@dhh.gt.org> writes:
> [...]
> You mean I have to start buying their stuff once they start starving? Why?
> It'll still be crap.

I get you John. But unfortunately it's the artists that will suffer along
with Joe Record Executive. Their art may be good, it's just the method of
getting it to us that's wrong.

I hope the majority of artists work out a viable alternative if this
thing really turns into a battle.
--
% Randy Yates % "The dreamer, the unwoken fool -
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % in dreams, no pain will kiss the brow..."
%%% 919-577-9882 %
%%%% <yates@ieee.org> % 'Eldorado Overture', *Eldorado*, ELO
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr

Pete wrote:
> Might Micro$haft actually be able to bully those who sell Linux distros
> (eg Red Hat) and support, to the point of legal non existence? Then they
> shut down the sites giving free distros to individuals like you and me??
> NOBODY has the abusive deep pockets like Micro$haft. They can loose every
> battle, and win the war.

IBM has backed the community with patents and money, don't think they will let
microsoft to win.

--

//Aho

John Hasler wrote:

>> NOBODY has the abusive deep pockets like Micro$haft. They can lose every
>> battle, and win the war.
>
> You grossly exaggerate Microsoft's power.

Not really. The political power wielded by MS is astonishing - Gates
successfully "bought" Tony Blair, which has resulted in the specification
of MS products for every British Government-funded IT project. *No* *HMG*
(her Maj's Government) *IT* *project* has *ever* *worked* - partially due
to inept project management, and partially because of the attempted use of
MS crapware. They have squandered incredible amounts of money on MS
rubbish that doesn't (and can't) work.

> Is Microsoft behind SCO?

Yes.

> If so, why is SCO losing?

Because the defendants actually have a /real/ case, whereas SCO don't. Even
the dimmest backwoods judge can see that. The only reason that it's all
carried on so long is that SCO have lots of MS' money to keep playing with!

Now that the SCO case is over (except for more legal wriggling that will
just eat up more time and money), MS have to find another "legal" attack on
FOSS. They probably realise that they'll never entirely do away with FOSS,
but they're hoping to prevent its uptake by major industry players by means
of yet more FUD. It's their last possible tactic - even declaring Linux
"communist" didn't work!

C.

Pete wrote:

> Might Micro$haft actually be able to bully those who sell Linux distros
> (eg Red Hat) and support, to the point of legal non existence? Then they
> shut down the sites giving free distros to individuals like you and me??
> NOBODY has the abusive deep pockets like Micro$haft. They can loose every
> battle, and win the war.

The chance of this happening is so close to zero there is no need to
worry. For M$ to achieve the ends you describe above the following
has to happen:

- M$ has to publically disclose which patents are being infringed.
- Those patents have to stand up to scrutiny with regard to prior
art and non-obvious-nous.
- The has be absolutely no way to write code that doesn't infringe
the patents.
- Microsoft has to be willing to go head to head with Linux supporters
like IBM and HPack who probably have a far larger number of patents.

Its not going to happen.

Erik
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Erik de Castro Lopo
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Open source is an intellectual-property destroyer. I can't
imagine something that could be worse than this for the software
business and the intellectual-property business."
-- Jim Allchin, Microsoft

"Erik de Castro Lopo" illuminated the devils arse on Thu, 17 May 2007
16:16:32 +1000 by typing:

> > Might Micro$haft actually be able to bully those who sell Linux
> > distros (eg Red Hat) and support, to the point of legal non
> > existence? Then they shut down the sites giving free distros to
> > individuals like you and me?? NOBODY has the abusive deep pockets
> > like Micro$haft. They can loose every battle, and win the war.
>
> The chance of this happening is so close to zero there is no need to
> worry. For M$ to achieve the ends you describe above the following
> has to happen:
>
> - M$ has to publically disclose which patents are being infringed.
> - Those patents have to stand up to scrutiny with regard to prior
> art and non-obvious-nous.
> - The has be absolutely no way to write code that doesn't infringe
> the patents.
> - Microsoft has to be willing to go head to head with Linux
> supporters like IBM and HPack who probably have a far larger number
> of patents.
>
> Its not going to happen.

Correct. But the *threat* of litigation is sometimes enough to sway some
corporates that may be thinking of moving to open source.

The "threat" is simply marketing gone mad.

--
Moog

http://www.last.fm/user/efcmoog/
"Liquor in the Front. Poker in the Rear"

Moog wrote:
> "Erik de Castro Lopo" illuminated the devils arse on Thu, 17 May 2007
> 16:16:32 +1000 by typing:
>
>>> Might Micro$haft actually be able to bully those who sell Linux
>>> distros (eg Red Hat) and support, to the point of legal non
>>> existence? Then they shut down the sites giving free distros to
>>> individuals like you and me?? NOBODY has the abusive deep pockets
>>> like Micro$haft. They can loose every battle, and win the war.
>> The chance of this happening is so close to zero there is no need to
>> worry. For M$ to achieve the ends you describe above the following
>> has to happen:
>>
>> - M$ has to publically disclose which patents are being infringed.
>> - Those patents have to stand up to scrutiny with regard to prior
>> art and non-obvious-nous.
>> - The has be absolutely no way to write code that doesn't infringe
>> the patents.
>> - Microsoft has to be willing to go head to head with Linux
>> supporters like IBM and HPack who probably have a far larger number
>> of patents.
>>
>> Its not going to happen.
>
> Correct. But the *threat* of litigation is sometimes enough to sway some
> corporates that may be thinking of moving to open source.

They may in that case choose OpenSolaris instead of GNU/Linux


--

//Aho

"J.O. Aho" illuminated the devils arse on Thu, 17 May 2007 10:06:45
+0200 by typing:

> > Correct. But the *threat* of litigation is sometimes enough to sway
> > some corporates that may be thinking of moving to open source.
>
> They may in that case choose OpenSolaris instead of GNU/Linux

OpenSolaris is a smooth OS. I have a virtualisation of it running here
and it is smooth. So yes. That could be an option.

Would Sun be immune to Microsoft threats though?

--
Moog

http://www.last.fm/user/efcmoog/
"Liquor in the Front. Poker in the Rear"

After takin' a swig o' grog, J.O. Aho belched out this bit o' wisdom:

>>> The chance of this happening is so close to zero there is no need to
>>> worry. For M$ to achieve the ends you describe above the following
>>> has to happen:
>>>
>>> - M$ has to publically disclose which patents are being infringed.
>>> - Those patents have to stand up to scrutiny with regard to prior
>>> art and non-obvious-nous.
>>> - The has be absolutely no way to write code that doesn't infringe
>>> the patents.
>>> - Microsoft has to be willing to go head to head with Linux
>>> supporters like IBM and HPack who probably have a far larger number
>>> of patents.
>>>
>>> Its not going to happen.
>>
>> Correct. But the *threat* of litigation is sometimes enough to sway some
>> corporates that may be thinking of moving to open source.
>
> They may in that case choose OpenSolaris instead of GNU/Linux

And then hope that Microsoft/Sun's patent deal will help them.

Or realize that, no matter what non-Microsoft technology they pick,
Microsoft can wave the patent ****-stick at them.

If Microsoft is bluffing (and I feel that is almost surely the case),
they will (and probably already have) lost a lot of face with the
powers-that-be in business.

--
Apple executive Peter Hoddie asked Microsoft officials, "'Are you asking us
to kill playback? Are you asking us to knife the baby?'" He said Microsoft
official Christopher Phillips responded, "'Yes, we want you to knife the baby.'
It was very clear."

Moog writes:
> Correct. But the *threat* of litigation is sometimes enough to sway some
> corporates that may be thinking of moving to open source.

Most "corporates" understand patents well enough to realize that everything
they do potentially infringes hordes of patents and the risk to them of
using FOSS is negligible.

> The "threat" is simply marketing gone mad.

Correct. It will have some minor effect at the margins.
--
John Hasler
john@dhh.gt.org
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

C. writes:
> They probably realise that they'll never entirely do away with FOSS, but
> they're hoping to prevent its uptake by major industry players...

IBM and Sun are not major industry players?
--
John Hasler
john@dhh.gt.org
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

"John Hasler" illuminated the devils arse on Thu, 17 May 2007 07:55:14
-0500 by typing:

> Moog writes:
> > Correct. But the *threat* of litigation is sometimes enough to sway
> > some corporates that may be thinking of moving to open source.
>
> Most "corporates" understand patents well enough to realize that
> everything they do potentially infringes hordes of patents and the
> risk to them of using FOSS is negligible.

You would hope so, but there is one certain large Human Resource
organisations that I know of (here in the UK) that have recently gone
"MS" due to some board level ignorance.

There must be other organisations doing similar too.

We cannot underestimate the power of the MS bandwagon.

--
Moog

http://www.last.fm/user/efcmoog/
"Liquor in the Front. Poker in the Rear"

On Thu, 17 May 2007 16:16:32 +1000, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:

> Pete wrote:
>
>> Might Micro$haft actually be able to bully those who sell Linux distros
>> (eg Red Hat) and support, to the point of legal non existence? Then
>> they shut down the sites giving free distros to individuals like you
>> and me?? NOBODY has the abusive deep pockets like Micro$haft. They can
>> loose every battle, and win the war.
>
> The chance of this happening is so close to zero there is no need to
> worry.

Except that it's exactly how they killed all of their commercial
competitors.

Linux is safe... companies like RedHat certainly aren't.