On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:13:44 -0700, Sir Jackery wrote:

> Well if a noob wants to stay a noob so be it. When I first started using
> Linux RPM didn't exist. Neither did any of this other crap you are saying
> noobs NEED to have in order to learn Linux.

When Linux started out, you had to be able to download the source, compile
and install it by hand, and configure everything from scratch. With vi.
On a 386. And that was just to qualify as a n00b.

I can't recall who said it first, but the question is:

"Do you want to be a n00b forever?"

Mark
--
This space intentionally left blank.

> >> > ...Puppy...
> >> **** Small Linux (a.k.a. DSL)...
> > Oooo... either one or something like them, is what Dell should
> > load on their machines? :)
> Au contraire, Alvin. Dell doesn't sell anything that isn't
> capable of running the largest, fanciest, and most capable Linux
> distros. DSL, Puppy, Austrumi, and the like are fantastic for
> extending the life of older machinery, or for carrying in your
> pocket: mini-CD + USB key = ultralight portable :-)

My remark was in reference to others sayin they'd like to see Dell
sell machines with blank-hard-drives. :/ I believe that would cost
Dell more than than to have -something- on them since the system is
prob'ly booted up and tested. Leave that free OS as-is or go out of
their way to delete it? Easier to leave it just in case it ends up
in the hands of someone that -needs- something, anything other than
blank. ;)

> If you can still find my email address in your inbox I'm happy to
> extend this discussion offline.
> Mark

As long it's about Linux (or knives;) need to keep it on the NG? :)

Here I am. :/ New to a.o.l with the equivilency of a drawer full of
stainless steel second-hand-store level knives and don't know how
to sharpen them. :/

My son Jeff has got Linux on his 30g iPod and turning it into a PDA
for the fun and usefulness of it... I know I know nuthin. :/

Alvin in AZ
ps- was I supposed to ship you a couple paring knife blanks or what?
pps- I feel as tho I left something un-done in your case :/

mark south <marksouth@null.invalid> wrote:
> Fridays put some people in a good mood, others the opposite.
> Apparently.

Danggit MS. :/

I can see I need to send you something to grind on. Bad. ;)
66+hrc 1095/50100-B or 65hrc M2 HSS?
(typed out some knife-jibberish for these Linux geeks;)

I was given a found-in-the-alley EMachine, Win-XP, 900mHz, 40G,
256M-ram, 48xCD-read-only it's like new, the thing has no dust
in it except for a little on the leading edges of the CPU fan.
Said it'd been 379 days since it last been booted up.

I can shoot it to pieces with a 45 Colt or screw it up messing
with loading Linux on it. ;)

I was thinking Ubuntu-6.10 but all this talk about small distros(?)
I'd like to try out some of these out for the fun of it.

Just lately learned what GUI means ;) no kidding, I'm that stupid :/
and thinking I'd like something to start with that has a minimum of
GUI crap. (dumb ol'Dos 3.3 guy here)

Got any suggestions there, guys? :)

BTW, I'm using bash at home and on Panix.Com is a there such a
thing as a bash-only setup? ...just for starters? :)

Alvin in AZ

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 01:32:49 +0000 (UTC), alvinj@XX.com wrote:
>
> I was given a found-in-the-alley EMachine, Win-XP, 900mHz, 40G,
> 256M-ram, 48xCD-read-only it's like new, the thing has no dust
> in it except for a little on the leading edges of the CPU fan.
> Said it'd been 379 days since it last been booted up.

> I was thinking Ubuntu-6.10 but all this talk about small distros(?)
> I'd like to try out some of these out for the fun of it.

Well, delete all partitions on drive, create a 512 meg byte swap, and
now you can create 6 gig partitions for each linux you install.
That should give you about 5 at a time to play with.

>
> Just lately learned what GUI means ;) no kidding, I'm that stupid :/
> and thinking I'd like something to start with that has a minimum of
> GUI crap. (dumb ol'Dos 3.3 guy here)
>
> Got any suggestions there, guys? :)

Tell the system to not boot at the GUI runlevel and all you would have
is the command line.

* Sir Jackery wrote in alt.os.linux:
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2007, Dan C wrote:

>> On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:33:46 -0700, Sir Jackery wrote:

>>>> Possibly because they (we) are new to the process? You know, that whole
>>>> learning what you're doing thing?

>>> I agree, but don't rely on the particular features of a distro. For
>>> example, don't learn RPM when using redhat, simply install from sources.

>> You're a little out of touch with reality. For someone new to Linux,
>> installing from sources is WAY beyond what they're ready for. To advise
>> folks to not learn how to use RPM's when using Redhat is just idiotic.
>> That's what they're there for, and the package managers make it relatively
>> foolproof for a noob to handle software. Yeah, I know that those package
>> managers and rpm's in general can have problems, but in the context of a
>> noob using Linux, they are invaluable.

> Well if a noob wants to stay a noob so be it. When I first started using
> Linux RPM didn't exist. Neither did any of this other crap you are saying
> noobs NEED to have in order to learn Linux. I didn't have a hard time with
> it. I think you just don't give them enough credit.

No, you give them too much. Most noobs come from Windows where they are
used to doing things a certain way. Tell them they have to compile linux
apps to use them and they stay in Windows. What you did 20 years ago is
NOT the way things are done today. The fact that you walked to school
uphill and barefoot in the snow both ways has no relevance in 2007, brag
to your grandkids.

--
David
HUGH BEAUMONT died in 1982!!

WGD <wgd.roaming@verizon.net> wrote:
> Bottom Line (so far), I dwnld'd Ubunto's 6.06 last night and
> made an ISO disk. Was able to boot from this new disk.

Cool. :) Never been there nor done that. :)

> I could not mount the existing drives, "see" or mount the
> partitions.

BTDT and was told step by step how to fix it and couldn't repeat
it if my life depended on it. :/ I'll do better after I get my
book? ;)

> No printer driver. I guess I need to GoTo Brothers and HP for
> appropriate Linux-based drivers.

BTDT and it was as simple as you said there.
Got an old HP-4C scanner (setup for Mac) to work no sweat. :)

> WEB is working fine as is Open Office.
> I'll still need to have MS's Windows available for appl that do
> not have Linux offerings...

Synaptic?

I'm the dumbest guy on a.o.l but seems to me... list what you have
that you use in MS-W and someone will tell you the Linux version
that will do that job?

Just switched my GF's U-6.10 machine over from GTKpod to AmaRok
using synaptic. And no kidding, I really am the dumbest guy on
this newsgroup.

> So . . . . . Is there a way to switch from Windows (XP-MCE in
> my case) to an installed Linux (dumb question I am inclined to
> think!) or is booting to the desired OS ALWAYS necessary? Does
> MS's Virtual PC 2007 offer any advantage here?

Uh... I'm pretty sure I don't know. ;)

> Learning something along the way.
> WayneD

Somehow I figure the learning part never ends. :)

Alvin in AZ

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007, SINNER wrote:

> * Sir Jackery wrote in alt.os.linux:
>> On Fri, 16 Mar 2007, Dan C wrote:
>
>>> On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:33:46 -0700, Sir Jackery wrote:
>
>>>>> Possibly because they (we) are new to the process? You know, that whole
>>>>> learning what you're doing thing?
>
>>>> I agree, but don't rely on the particular features of a distro. For
>>>> example, don't learn RPM when using redhat, simply install from sources.
>
>>> You're a little out of touch with reality. For someone new to Linux,
>>> installing from sources is WAY beyond what they're ready for. To advise
>>> folks to not learn how to use RPM's when using Redhat is just idiotic.
>>> That's what they're there for, and the package managers make it relatively
>>> foolproof for a noob to handle software. Yeah, I know that those package
>>> managers and rpm's in general can have problems, but in the context of a
>>> noob using Linux, they are invaluable.
>
>> Well if a noob wants to stay a noob so be it. When I first started using
>> Linux RPM didn't exist. Neither did any of this other crap you are saying
>> noobs NEED to have in order to learn Linux. I didn't have a hard time with
>> it. I think you just don't give them enough credit.
>
> No, you give them too much. Most noobs come from Windows where they are
> used to doing things a certain way. Tell them they have to compile linux
> apps to use them and they stay in Windows. What you did 20 years ago is
> NOT the way things are done today. The fact that you walked to school
> uphill and barefoot in the snow both ways has no relevance in 2007, brag
> to your grandkids.
>
>


I agree with a lot of what you are saying, I just think that if people
truly want to learn powerful Linux skills they will stick to methods that
apply to all flavors. You're right though, most noobs depend on these
things because that isn't their intention. I'm not insisting they should,
just suggesting that it is a more powerful alternative.

--
Sir Jackery

"WGD" <wgd.roaming@verizon.net> writes:

>Didn't think I would create so many replies. Bottom Line (so far), I
>dwnld'd Ubunto's 6.06 last night and made an ISO disk. (Had prev dwnld'd
>6.10 that was either a bad dwnld or a bad file at the other end - had a few
>errors.)

A disk is only 600MB. Mandriva has 8GB of programs available, and those are
all non-proprietary.


>Was able to boot from this new disk. (Doing all of this to simply learn . .
>. . something new to me. For many, LINUX is the way to go, re Dell's plan
>to sell Linux-based machines?)

>I could not mount the existing drives, "see" or mount the partitions.

The one cd disk programs are not for mounting stuff. I am sure it is
possible, but that is not what they are for.


>No printer driver. I guess I need to GoTo Brothers and HP for appropriate
>Linux-based drivers.

Sorry, I do not believe that. I have not tried Ubuntu, so cannot swear to
it, but I suspect strongly that you CAN print from it.



>WEB is working fine as is Open Office.

>I'll still need to have MS's Windows available for appl that do not have
>Linux offerings (or I am prepared to pay for them!). So . . . . . Is there

You do not tell us which appl that is.


>a way to switch from Windows (XP-MCE in my case) to an installed Linux (dumb
>question I am inclined to think!) or is booting to the desired OS ALWAYS
>necessary? Does MS's Virtual PC 2007 offer any advantage here?

In general you need to boot to the desired OS. The OS controls the
underlying core of the computer-- interrupts, disk handling, video, and two
operating systems would just fight.



>BTW, I appreciate all the comments. Learning something along the way.

>WayneD





><alvinj@XX.com> wrote in message news:etd4uk$jol$3@reader2.panix.com...
>> WGD <wgd.roaming@verizon.net> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>> WayneD
>>
>> Coolpost! :)
>>
>> Soon to be riding in that same wagon... ;)
>>
>> Alvin in AZ

Sir Jackery <roehrig@cs.ucdavis.edu> writes:

>On Fri, 16 Mar 2007, Dan C wrote:

>> On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:33:46 -0700, Sir Jackery wrote:
>>
>>>> Possibly because they (we) are new to the process? You know, that whole
>>>> learning what you're doing thing?
>>
>>> I agree, but don't rely on the particular features of a distro. For
>>> example, don't learn RPM when using redhat, simply install from sources.
>>
>> You're a little out of touch with reality. For someone new to Linux,
>> installing from sources is WAY beyond what they're ready for. To advise
>> folks to not learn how to use RPM's when using Redhat is just idiotic.
>> That's what they're there for, and the package managers make it relatively
>> foolproof for a noob to handle software. Yeah, I know that those package
>> managers and rpm's in general can have problems, but in the context of a
>> noob using Linux, they are invaluable.

>Well if a noob wants to stay a noob so be it. When I first started using
>Linux RPM didn't exist. Neither did any of this other crap you are saying

And you had to walk 20 miles to school with the snow over your head all the
way.
And when I started you booted up the computer by flippling switches on the
front panel of the machine.



>noobs NEED to have in order to learn Linux. I didn't have a hard time with
>it. I think you just don't give them enough credit.

Of course they do not NEED to have it. It just makes everything much much
much simpler. That is what computers are all about-- to do the stuff that
can be automated for you.

It would be idiotic to tell uses not to use things like rpm as to tell them
that gcc is rediculous-- everything can be done with a hex editor.

Unruh was all like, you know, and said something like...
>
> The one cd disk programs are not for mounting stuff. I am sure it is
> possible, but that is not what they are for.
>

Although the MEPIS LiveCD does a very easy and good job of it. I keep
a disc around for that reason... my 2 cents.

--
BlackTopBum
They said homosexuality was a mental defect.
Now they say pedophilia is a mental defect...
in what direction are we headed?

Bit Twister wrote:
> > ...thinking Ubuntu-6.10 but all this talk about small distros
> > I'd like to try out some of these out for the fun of it.
>
> Well, delete all partitions on drive, create a 512 meg byte swap,
> and now you can create 6 gig partitions for each linux you install.
> That should give you about 5 at a time to play with.

Cool idea. :)

My son sez...
"i checked them all out and the first CD of Debian is the best way
to go and will do what you want"

> > ...like something to start with that has a minimum of GUI crap.
> Tell the system to not boot at the GUI runlevel and all you would
> have is the command line.

Yeah... :) You know I've got that now really...
....just click :/ on the little terminal icon... <shrug>

I have the fused-black-bomb icon for Panix's terminal window. :)
(telnet's to panix for me)

Got my book (Running Linux) and found out the Bash shell is Linux?

If so, I've been using Linux for about 12 years and didn't even
friggin know it. AzStarnet, Primenet and now Panix (forever).

Told you I was the dumbest on a.o.l. :/

Alvin in AZ

* alvinj@XX.com wrote in alt.os.linux:

[...]

> Got my book (Running Linux) and found out the Bash shell is Linux?

No, the bash shell, is the bash shell, you can run under windows using
cygwin. Linux is a kernel.

--
David
Debian Hint #19: If you're interested in building packages from source, you
should consider installing the apt-src package.