[Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
set for OE General]

Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
<quote>
As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will no
longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders] via
Outlook Express...
</quote>
Source:
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/...708!5359.entry

======================

Please Note:

1. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ disable your access to Outlook
Express.

2. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ change your default Mail Client from
Outlook Express to Windows Live Mail.

3. The Windows Live "all-in-one" installer /may/ install more than just
Windows Live Mail. If you decide to try Windows Live Mail, UNCHECK any
unwanted Windows Live applications (e.g., Windows Live Messenger; Windows
Live Toolbar; Windows Live Family Safety) before proceeding with the
installation!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Windows Live Mail-specific newsgroup:
microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop

Via the web-interface:
http://www.microsoft.com/communities...e.mail.desktop

Via your newsreader:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsof...e.mail.desktop
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

> [Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
> set for OE General]

Note: FollowUp-To ignored. Reply posted to all newsgroups since,
according to PA Bear, they should all be related groups in which
continued discussion is on-topic.

> Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
> <quote>
> As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will no
> longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders] via
> Outlook Express...
> </quote>
> Source:
> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/...708!5359.entry

Hmm, so they dropped WebDAV access for freebie accounts created after
November 2004. Now they're dropping WebDAV access even for paid
accounts (any create date) and forcing users to their Windows Live Mail
client which has security flaws and defects just so they can push their
Hotmail users to use a client and connect to their HTTP servers that now
support DeltaSync (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeltaSync). All so
Microsoft doesn't have to support already established e-mail protocols
and lock their Hotmail users into using Microsoft e-mail clients.

Well, the microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop group should be
getting a lot more busy. Wonder how many will simply choose to dump a
local e-mail client and just go with the Windows Live Hotmail "full"
webmail interface? Might be what Microsoft intends to happen, anyway,
so they can push their Ajax-enabled webmail interface.

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

> It's not a question for IE- and/or OE-newsgroups either.

You mean the groups to which YOU chose to submit your original post.

- Hotmail begins with a webmail interface and provides POP3/SMTP access.
- POP3/SMTP were yanked by Microsoft and replaced with WebDAV.
- WebDAV is considered inadequate and replaced with DeltaSync.
- POP3/SMTP were added back to paid Hotmail accounts.

So if WebDAV was inadequate, why go to DeltaSync at all? Obviously
POP3/SMTP was considered adequate since it was re-offered on paid
accounts (and one MS blog says that it is planned to show up for free
accounts in another 12 months, and that blog was dated back in Nov
2007).

Microsoft goes to DeltaSync *AND* goes back to POP3/SMTP, so why not
just go back to POP3/SMTP? Actually I'd like to see IMAP offered. I'm
really not interested in yet another Microsoft proprietary protocol that
non-Microsoft clients cannot support.

Found an interesting blog of a meeting at:

POP3 on Hotmail Explained: we talk to Omar Shahine
http://www.liveside.net/blogs/interview/default.aspx

which has the meeting recorded (audio only) at:
http://www.liveside.net/files/folder.../download.aspx

When playing in Windows Media Player, under View -> Enchancements,
disable SRS (if on) and use the graphic equalizer to drop the bass end
to make the audio more clear.

They are making the same presumption as does GMail: the user wants to
leave all their e-mails up on the server whether read or not. Not me.
I want to locally manage all my e-mails. I don't want to leave them on
the server. So the huge disk space quotas proclaimed by Hotmail, Yahoo
Mail, Gmail, and others means very little to me. I yank the messages so
they are local and I don't need all that disk space for the mailbox.
Far more important is the per-message-size quota as regards to me
retrieving those message. Fortunately I haven't been afflicted with
boob senders that spew huge-sized messages because they know how to put
large files in online disk space and provide a link to it, or I'll
educate them on how to do that.

Microsoft is thinking of e-mail going forward as a substitute for file
transfer protocols (FTP) and obviously e-mail was never designed for
that. It was designed under a trust model to deliver large volumes of
small messages. Omar talks about tens of thousands of messages in the
mailbox whereas I never have more than a couple dozen because of my
e-mail client polling and yanking the e-mails not a whole lot after when
the e-mail arrived (I poll anywhere from 10 to 60 minutes depending on
the use of a particular account and its level of traffic). I do not
want large messages. If I started to get them, I'd configure Outlook to
NOT download them, I'd use the webmail interface to check them, and I'd
probably tell the sender to put their huge e-mail in an anatomical
orifice.

"ANONYMOUS" <ANONYMOUS@EXAMPLE.COM> wrote in message news:uE8$QkYoIHA.4928@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
>
> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>
> >
> > NB: There are Windows Live Hotmail subscribers who currently access
> > their account(s) in OE via POP3. This change will not affect them.
>
>
> In fact Windows Live Mail allows you to access hotmail account free of
> charge even if it is a new account. The idea is MS wants everybody to
> use Windows Live Email. OE is a dated technology and it is time to put
> it in the museum!!


Live mail is auto-logging.... kisses the ass of Uncle Sam. Homeland Zecurity
loves it and wants *everyone* to use it.... makes everything much easier.

Please ask your Windows Live Mail-specific question here:
microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop

Via the web-interface:
http://www.microsoft.com/communities...e.mail.desktop

Via your newsreader:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsof...e.mail.desktop
--
~PA Bear


VanguardLH wrote:
<snip>
> Will DeltaSync be a published protocol that any programmer can follow to
> add it to their own non-Microsoft e-mail client? Will the command set
> needed for the client to communicate with the Hotmail servers be
> disclosed?
<snip>

I can get free Hotmail in OE, hehehe!


ju.c


"VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote in message
news:fu9iov$n1u$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>
>> [Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups;
>> Followup-To
>> set for OE General]
>
> Note: FollowUp-To ignored. Reply posted to all newsgroups since,
> according to PA Bear, they should all be related groups in which
> continued discussion is on-topic.
>
>> Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook
>> Express
>> <quote>
>> As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you
>> will no
>> longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail
>> folders] via
>> Outlook Express...
>> </quote>
>> Source:
>> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/...708!5359.entry
>
> Hmm, so they dropped WebDAV access for freebie accounts created after
> November 2004. Now they're dropping WebDAV access even for paid
> accounts (any create date) and forcing users to their Windows Live
> Mail
> client which has security flaws and defects just so they can push
> their
> Hotmail users to use a client and connect to their HTTP servers that
> now
> support DeltaSync (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeltaSync). All so
> Microsoft doesn't have to support already established e-mail protocols
> and lock their Hotmail users into using Microsoft e-mail clients.
>
> Well, the microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop group should be
> getting a lot more busy. Wonder how many will simply choose to dump a
> local e-mail client and just go with the Windows Live Hotmail "full"
> webmail interface? Might be what Microsoft intends to happen, anyway,
> so they can push their Ajax-enabled webmail interface.

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

>VanguardLH wrote:
(had to be added manually since PA Bear incorrectly leaves the sigdash
delimiter BEFORE the quoted content - and many non-Microsoft NNTP
clients comply with RFC as to placement and will also strip the
signature from replies. OE has a registry hack to move the signature to
its proper position at the end of the reply.)
><snip>
>> Will DeltaSync be a published protocol that any programmer can follow to
>> add it to their own non-Microsoft e-mail client? Will the command set
>> needed for the client to communicate with the Hotmail servers be
>> disclosed?
><snip>
>
> Please ask your Windows Live Mail-specific question here:
> microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
>
> Via the web-interface:
> http://www.microsoft.com/communities...e.mail.desktop
>
> Via your newsreader:
> news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsof...e.mail.desktop

Asking for documentation or an SDK for DeltaSync is not a question about
how to use the Windows Live Mail client.

"ju.c" <bibidybubidyboop@mailnator.com> wrote in message
news:%23zTS$0UoIHA.5836@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>I can get free Hotmail in OE, hehehe!
>

Well I can get free Hotmail in Thunderbird. So there.

ju.c wrote:

> I can get free Hotmail in OE, hehehe!

And it is after June 30, 2008 wherever you are? What planet would that
be?

[Top posting to p*** you off]

It's not a question for IE- and/or OE-newsgroups either.

Bite me.

<plonk>
--
~PA Bear

VanguardLH [Lotsa Hooey?] wrote:
>> Please ask your Windows Live Mail-specific question here:
>> microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
>>
>> Via the web-interface:
>> http://www.microsoft.com/communities...e.mail.desktop
>>
>> Via your newsreader:
>> news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsof...e.mail.desktop
>
> Asking for documentation or an SDK for DeltaSync is not a question about
> how to use the Windows Live Mail client.

Gordon wrote:

> "ju.c" <bibidybubidyboop@mailnator.com> wrote in message
> news:%23zTS$0UoIHA.5836@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>I can get free Hotmail in OE, hehehe!
>>
>
> Well I can get free Hotmail in Thunderbird. So there.

Not without using additional software, like the Webmail extension
(http://webmail.mozdev.org/index.html) or FreePOPs (don't know if that
still works). Thunderbird alone, the way you mention, doesn't do
Hotmail.

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
> <snip>
>>> Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
>>> <quote>
>>> As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will
>>> no longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders]
>>> via Outlook Express...
>>> </quote>
>>> Source:
>>> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/...708!5359.entry
>>
>> Hmm, so they dropped WebDAV access for freebie accounts created after
>> November 2004. Now they're dropping WebDAV access even for paid
>> accounts (any create date) and forcing users to their Windows Live Mail
>> client...
>
> NB: There are Windows Live Hotmail subscribers who currently access their
> account(s) in OE via POP3. This change will not affect them.

Wonder how long Microsoft is going to carry those legacy accounts. I've
heard from users of MSN legacy accounts that they still get POP access.
I don't know if the *Hotmail* legacy accounts (legacy as of July 2002
when POP got dropped) continued to get POP access. I thought only the
MSN legacy accounts continued to get POP access.


- 1996 July: Hotmail becomes available.
- 1997 December: Microsoft buys Hotmail.
- 2000 February: For MSN, POP3 access is discontinued and switches to
WebDAV access. MSN "legacy" accounts created before that date continue
to get POP3 access. MSN accounts created after that date only get
WebDAV access.
- 2002 July: For Hotmail, POP3 access is discontinued and switches to
WebDAV access.
- 2004 November: For Hotmail, Microsoft changes policy to disable WebDAV
access for *new* free Hotmail accounts created after that date. Old
(and still active) accounts created before that policy change date
continue to get WebDAV access. New accounts created after that date
must pay to get WebDAV access.
- 2007 June: Microsoft introduces DeltaSync, its replacement for WebDAV.
- 2008 June: Microsoft disables WebDAV and forces use of DeltaSync.

Hello All,

I wanted to take some time to address the concerns/questions that have
started on this thread.

Microsoft is doing this to force people onto the client: False. We are
doing this because the DAV protocol is inefficient on larger mailbox sizes.
Once Hotmail upgrade storage space synchronization issues happen within DAV.
DeltaSynch is a stable protocol that will be able to efficiently handle large
accounts.

This locks people into a Microsoft client to access Hotmail: False. Hotmail
customers are able to utilize POP3, or as mentioned below, other clients such
as Thunderbird. Though Live Mail is optimized for usage against Hotmail, it
is not the single choice for connection. You will also be able to continue
full access through your browser.

Does this affect Live Hotmail and Outlook Connector - Yes. Any user
utilizing Outlook connector 1.8 or earlier will need to upgrade to the new
OLC. Live Mail is currently DeltaSynch ready and Live Hotmail is available
through your browser.


--
Scott Hammer
Sr. Supportability Program Manager
Windows Live Mail Technologies
Microsoft Corporation


"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

> [Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
> set for OE General]
>
> Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
> <quote>
> As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will no
> longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders] via
> Outlook Express...
> </quote>
> Source:
> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/...708!5359.entry
>
> ======================
>
> Please Note:
>
> 1. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ disable your access to Outlook
> Express.
>
> 2. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ change your default Mail Client from
> Outlook Express to Windows Live Mail.
>
> 3. The Windows Live "all-in-one" installer /may/ install more than just
> Windows Live Mail. If you decide to try Windows Live Mail, UNCHECK any
> unwanted Windows Live applications (e.g., Windows Live Messenger; Windows
> Live Toolbar; Windows Live Family Safety) before proceeding with the
> installation!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Windows Live Mail-specific newsgroup:
> microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
>
> Via the web-interface:
> http://www.microsoft.com/communities...e.mail.desktop
>
> Via your newsreader:
> news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsof...e.mail.desktop
> --
> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/
>
>

VanguardLH wrote:
<snip>
>> Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
>> <quote>
>> As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will
>> no longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders]
>> via Outlook Express...
>> </quote>
>> Source:
>> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/...708!5359.entry
>
> Hmm, so they dropped WebDAV access for freebie accounts created after
> November 2004. Now they're dropping WebDAV access even for paid
> accounts (any create date) and forcing users to their Windows Live Mail
> client...

NB: There are Windows Live Hotmail subscribers who currently access their
account(s) in OE via POP3. This change will not affect them.
--
~PA Bear