PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

> [Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
> set for OE General]

Note: FollowUp-To ignored. Reply posted to all newsgroups since,
according to PA Bear, they should all be related groups in which
continued discussion is on-topic.

> Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
> <quote>
> As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will no
> longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders] via
> Outlook Express...
> </quote>
> Source:
> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/...708!5359.entry

Hmm, so they dropped WebDAV access for freebie accounts created after
November 2004. Now they're dropping WebDAV access even for paid
accounts (any create date) and forcing users to their Windows Live Mail
client which has security flaws and defects just so they can push their
Hotmail users to use a client and connect to their HTTP servers that now
support DeltaSync (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeltaSync). All so
Microsoft doesn't have to support already established e-mail protocols
and lock their Hotmail users into using Microsoft e-mail clients.

Well, the microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop group should be
getting a lot more busy. Wonder how many will simply choose to dump a
local e-mail client and just go with the Windows Live Hotmail "full"
webmail interface? Might be what Microsoft intends to happen, anyway,
so they can push their Ajax-enabled webmail interface.

I can get free Hotmail in OE, hehehe!


ju.c


"VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote in message
news:fu9iov$n1u$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>
>> [Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups;
>> Followup-To
>> set for OE General]
>
> Note: FollowUp-To ignored. Reply posted to all newsgroups since,
> according to PA Bear, they should all be related groups in which
> continued discussion is on-topic.
>
>> Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook
>> Express
>> <quote>
>> As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you
>> will no
>> longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail
>> folders] via
>> Outlook Express...
>> </quote>
>> Source:
>> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/...708!5359.entry
>
> Hmm, so they dropped WebDAV access for freebie accounts created after
> November 2004. Now they're dropping WebDAV access even for paid
> accounts (any create date) and forcing users to their Windows Live
> Mail
> client which has security flaws and defects just so they can push
> their
> Hotmail users to use a client and connect to their HTTP servers that
> now
> support DeltaSync (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeltaSync). All so
> Microsoft doesn't have to support already established e-mail protocols
> and lock their Hotmail users into using Microsoft e-mail clients.
>
> Well, the microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop group should be
> getting a lot more busy. Wonder how many will simply choose to dump a
> local e-mail client and just go with the Windows Live Hotmail "full"
> webmail interface? Might be what Microsoft intends to happen, anyway,
> so they can push their Ajax-enabled webmail interface.

"ju.c" <bibidybubidyboop@mailnator.com> wrote in message
news:%23zTS$0UoIHA.5836@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>I can get free Hotmail in OE, hehehe!
>

Well I can get free Hotmail in Thunderbird. So there.

VanguardLH wrote:
<snip>
>> Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
>> <quote>
>> As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will
>> no longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders]
>> via Outlook Express...
>> </quote>
>> Source:
>> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/...708!5359.entry
>
> Hmm, so they dropped WebDAV access for freebie accounts created after
> November 2004. Now they're dropping WebDAV access even for paid
> accounts (any create date) and forcing users to their Windows Live Mail
> client...

NB: There are Windows Live Hotmail subscribers who currently access their
account(s) in OE via POP3. This change will not affect them.
--
~PA Bear

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

>
> NB: There are Windows Live Hotmail subscribers who currently access
> their account(s) in OE via POP3. This change will not affect them.


In fact Windows Live Mail allows you to access hotmail account free of
charge even if it is a new account. The idea is MS wants everybody to
use Windows Live Email. OE is a dated technology and it is time to put
it in the museum!!

hth

ju.c wrote:

> I can get free Hotmail in OE, hehehe!

And it is after June 30, 2008 wherever you are? What planet would that
be?

Gordon wrote:

> "ju.c" <bibidybubidyboop@mailnator.com> wrote in message
> news:%23zTS$0UoIHA.5836@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>I can get free Hotmail in OE, hehehe!
>>
>
> Well I can get free Hotmail in Thunderbird. So there.

Not without using additional software, like the Webmail extension
(http://webmail.mozdev.org/index.html) or FreePOPs (don't know if that
still works). Thunderbird alone, the way you mention, doesn't do
Hotmail.

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
> <snip>
>>> Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
>>> <quote>
>>> As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will
>>> no longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders]
>>> via Outlook Express...
>>> </quote>
>>> Source:
>>> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/...708!5359.entry
>>
>> Hmm, so they dropped WebDAV access for freebie accounts created after
>> November 2004. Now they're dropping WebDAV access even for paid
>> accounts (any create date) and forcing users to their Windows Live Mail
>> client...
>
> NB: There are Windows Live Hotmail subscribers who currently access their
> account(s) in OE via POP3. This change will not affect them.

Wonder how long Microsoft is going to carry those legacy accounts. I've
heard from users of MSN legacy accounts that they still get POP access.
I don't know if the *Hotmail* legacy accounts (legacy as of July 2002
when POP got dropped) continued to get POP access. I thought only the
MSN legacy accounts continued to get POP access.


- 1996 July: Hotmail becomes available.
- 1997 December: Microsoft buys Hotmail.
- 2000 February: For MSN, POP3 access is discontinued and switches to
WebDAV access. MSN "legacy" accounts created before that date continue
to get POP3 access. MSN accounts created after that date only get
WebDAV access.
- 2002 July: For Hotmail, POP3 access is discontinued and switches to
WebDAV access.
- 2004 November: For Hotmail, Microsoft changes policy to disable WebDAV
access for *new* free Hotmail accounts created after that date. Old
(and still active) accounts created before that policy change date
continue to get WebDAV access. New accounts created after that date
must pay to get WebDAV access.
- 2007 June: Microsoft introduces DeltaSync, its replacement for WebDAV.
- 2008 June: Microsoft disables WebDAV and forces use of DeltaSync.

"ANONYMOUS" <ANONYMOUS@EXAMPLE.COM> wrote in message news:uE8$QkYoIHA.4928@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
>
> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>
> >
> > NB: There are Windows Live Hotmail subscribers who currently access
> > their account(s) in OE via POP3. This change will not affect them.
>
>
> In fact Windows Live Mail allows you to access hotmail account free of
> charge even if it is a new account. The idea is MS wants everybody to
> use Windows Live Email. OE is a dated technology and it is time to put
> it in the museum!!


Live mail is auto-logging.... kisses the ass of Uncle Sam. Homeland Zecurity
loves it and wants *everyone* to use it.... makes everything much easier.

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

NB: There are Windows Live Hotmail subscribers who currently access their
account(s) in OE via POP3. This change will not affect them.

Thank you for this information. So does this mean that when the new changes
take place on 30 June that:

1-Only HTTP Hotmail will stop working with Outlook Express and POP3 access
will carry on as usual?
2- MSN Messenger will stop working unless live mail is installed?
3- One cannot install both live mail and outlook express?

I have a subscription hotmail account and currently access it with both POP3
and HTTP with simultaneous syncronization. I do not really wish to change to
windows live mail so I really hope that I can continue using Hotmail with
POP3. With the new changes I will miss not being able to access "Sent Items"
and "Bulk Mail" from Outlook Express on the HTTP server, but so be it.

Kind Regards
Chris

If you're currently able to access your Hotmail account in OE or OL /via
POP3/ (e.g., as a Hotmail Plus subscriber or an Outlook Connector user), the
change will not affect you.

If you're currently able to access your Hotmail account in OE or OL /via
WebDAV/ (aka HTML) as a Hotmail Plus subscriber or an Outlook Connector
user, you must switch to POP3 access by 30 June 2008; see set-up instrux
here:
http://liveunplugged.spaces.live.com...90CA!171.entry.

At some time in the near future, Outlook Connector users will have to
upgrade the application.

AFAIK MSN/Windows Live Messenger functionality is *not* dependant on having
Windows Live Mail installed. (There are specific newsgroups for both
Messengers where you can ask about this.)

One can have both Windows Live Mail and OE installed (in WinXP SP2) but only
one of them can be the default Mail Client. Installing Windows Live Mail in
WinXP SP2 will delete your shortcuts to OE in Start menu and Quick Launch
bar.
--
~PA Bear

Chris wrote:
>> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:
>> NB: There are Windows Live Hotmail subscribers who currently access their
>> account(s) in OE via POP3. This change will not affect them.
>
> Thank you for this information. So does this mean that when the new
> changes
> take place on 30 June that:
>
> 1-Only HTTP Hotmail will stop working with Outlook Express and POP3 access
> will carry on as usual?
> 2- MSN Messenger will stop working unless live mail is installed?
> 3- One cannot install both live mail and outlook express?
>
> I have a subscription hotmail account and currently access it with both
> POP3
> and HTTP with simultaneous syncronization. I do not really wish to change
> to
> windows live mail so I really hope that I can continue using Hotmail with
> POP3. With the new changes I will miss not being able to access "Sent
> Items"
> and "Bulk Mail" from Outlook Express on the HTTP server, but so be it.
>
> Kind Regards
> Chris

Thanks, just what I needed to know.

Kind Regards
Chris

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 02:31:46 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

> Hmm, so they dropped WebDAV access for freebie accounts created after
> November 2004. Now they're dropping WebDAV access even for paid
> accounts (any create date) and forcing users to their Windows Live Mail
> client which has security flaws and defects...

More so than MS Outlook Express? Could you elaborate?

> ...just so they can push their Hotmail users to use a client and connect
> to their HTTP servers that now support DeltaSync
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeltaSync). All so Microsoft doesn't have
> to support already established e-mail protocols and lock their Hotmail
> users into using Microsoft e-mail clients.

WebDAV isn't, exactly, an "established" protocol. It is, and always has
been, a closed-source, proprietary protocol. And anybody using MSN Hotmail
between the time that they shut off POP3/SMTP access, and shut of WebDAV
access has been locked in to using Microsoft e-mail clients. With the
possible exception of IncrediMail, which is probably the only client worse
than MS Outlook Express, I can't think of a client which includes support
for WebDAV. This is what happens with closed-source, proprietary systmes.

"Established" protocols, at least of the open source variety, are:

POP3
IMAP
SMTP

MS Outlook Express will continue to support those "estabished" protocols,
and even Windows Live Hotmail will support them on the paid accounts.

> Well, the microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop group should be
> getting a lot more busy. Wonder how many will simply choose to dump a
> local e-mail client and just go with the Windows Live Hotmail "full"
> webmail interface? Might be what Microsoft intends to happen, anyway,
> so they can push their Ajax-enabled webmail interface.

Or they might just be "going with the flow". Of four people, whom I help
with computer support, none routinely use a desktop e-mail client; only one
even knows what an e-mail client is. I'd guess that 65% to 70% of the users
on the Internet, and 85% to 90% of new users, don't even know that there is
more to the Internet than the web.

--
Norman
~Shine, bright morning light,
~now in the air the spring is coming.
~Sweet, blowing wind,
~singing down the hills and valleys.

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 06:46:24 GMT, David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

> "ANONYMOUS" <ANONYMOUS@EXAMPLE.COM> wrote in message news:uE8$QkYoIHA.4928@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

>>> NB: There are Windows Live Hotmail subscribers who currently access
>>> their account(s) in OE via POP3. This change will not affect them.

>> In fact Windows Live Mail allows you to access hotmail account free of
>> charge even if it is a new account. The idea is MS wants everybody to
>> use Windows Live Email. OE is a dated technology and it is time to put
>> it in the museum!!

> Live mail is auto-logging.... kisses the ass of Uncle Sam. Homeland Zecurity
> loves it and wants *everyone* to use it.... makes everything much easier.

And you have the Wireshark logs to prove that assertion?

--
Norman
~Shine, bright morning light,
~now in the air the spring is coming.
~Sweet, blowing wind,
~singing down the hills and valleys.

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