All,

I have recently installed Virtual PC/Windows XP on my Mac G5 and the
applications appear to be working fine.

However, I have a question. Whenever I have Virtual PC/Windows running
my G5 becomes significantly more noisy. When running without Virtual
PC/Windows the G5 is very quiet; however with Virtual PC/Windows
engaged the machine is probably 2X(?) to 4X(?) more noisy. The noise
actually is approaching point where it is irritating. The noise
appears to be caused by the fan going at a higher speed. I am
concerned that I might(?) be causing some damage to the G5.

Some questions: 1) Is this higher noise leve normal? 2) If not
normal, are there any thoughts around what might be causing the noise?
3) Any recommendations for reducing the noise?

Any feedback will be most appreciated.

In article <1110665437.546947.29820@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
"PLB" <sbrizz@cox.net> wrote:

> Some questions: 1) Is this higher noise leve normal? 2) If not
> normal, are there any thoughts around what might be causing the noise?
> 3) Any recommendations for reducing the noise?

Do you have OS 10.3.8? There seems to be a bug where the fans on a G5
will randomly rev up to higher speeds, then drop back down. Very
annoying, but not connected to Virtual PC.

If it's something else, I've got no clue...

--
Pete Stephenson
HeyPete.com

In article <1110665437.546947.29820@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
"PLB" <sbrizz@cox.net> wrote:

> All,
>
> I have recently installed Virtual PC/Windows XP on my Mac G5 and the
> applications appear to be working fine.
>
> However, I have a question. Whenever I have Virtual PC/Windows running
> my G5 becomes significantly more noisy. When running without Virtual
> PC/Windows the G5 is very quiet; however with Virtual PC/Windows
> engaged the machine is probably 2X(?) to 4X(?) more noisy. The noise
> actually is approaching point where it is irritating. The noise
> appears to be caused by the fan going at a higher speed. I am
> concerned that I might(?) be causing some damage to the G5.
>
> Some questions: 1) Is this higher noise leve normal? 2) If not
> normal, are there any thoughts around what might be causing the noise?
> 3) Any recommendations for reducing the noise?
>
> Any feedback will be most appreciated.

The G5 Powermacs have seven or nine fans in them that are controlled by
software. There are numerous sensors that report temperature conditions
inside the machine to the operating system. OS X controls the fans. It
speeds them up or slows them down depending on thermal needs. The reason
for all this is that the G5 processor runs extremely hot. If OS X didn't
control the fans Apple would have to make them run full tilt all the
time. You really wouldn't like that. So the compromise is that processor
intensive applications like Virtual PC cause the G5 to work harder,
generate more heat, and the fans go faster making more noise. Nature of
the beast.

1) The higher noise level is normal. The fans are running faster to keep
the system cool. This can be annoying as you have pointed out.

2) See item 1

3) Open your System Preferences panel, select the Energy Saver panel,
select Options tab. At the bottom you will see a Processor Performance
option. By default it is set to Automatic. Change it to Highest. This
will even out the fan fluctuations and generally make things quieter.

Your G5 will not be damaged. It's protecting itself from overheating.

--
"There are no significant bugs in our released software that any significant
number of users want fixed." Bill Gates

Source: Focus Magazine, nr.43, pages 206-212, (October 23, 1995)

In article <pete+usenet-0D600A.14380012032005@typhoon.sonic.net>,
Pete Stephenson <pete+usenet@heypete.com> wrote:

> In article <1110665437.546947.29820@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
> "PLB" <sbrizz@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > Some questions: 1) Is this higher noise leve normal? 2) If not
> > normal, are there any thoughts around what might be causing the noise?
> > 3) Any recommendations for reducing the noise?
>
> Do you have OS 10.3.8? There seems to be a bug where the fans on a G5
> will randomly rev up to higher speeds, then drop back down. Very
> annoying, but not connected to Virtual PC.
>
> If it's something else, I've got no clue...

It's not a bug at all. Apple did it intentionally. They changed the fan
control software in 10.3.8.

--
"There are no significant bugs in our released software that any significant
number of users want fixed." Bill Gates

Source: Focus Magazine, nr.43, pages 206-212, (October 23, 1995)

Elijah,

Thanks for the useful information. One question for understanding. My
intuition is probably wrong here, but wouldn't setting Processor
Performance to Highest just make the G5 run hotter and hence more need
for the noisy fan? Wouldn't going the other way an using the Reduced
option run better???


Elijah Baley wrote:
> In article <1110665437.546947.29820@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
> "PLB" <sbrizz@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > All,
> >
> > I have recently installed Virtual PC/Windows XP on my Mac G5 and
the
> > applications appear to be working fine.
> >
> > However, I have a question. Whenever I have Virtual PC/Windows
running
> > my G5 becomes significantly more noisy. When running without
Virtual
> > PC/Windows the G5 is very quiet; however with Virtual PC/Windows
> > engaged the machine is probably 2X(?) to 4X(?) more noisy. The
noise
> > actually is approaching point where it is irritating. The noise
> > appears to be caused by the fan going at a higher speed. I am
> > concerned that I might(?) be causing some damage to the G5.
> >
> > Some questions: 1) Is this higher noise leve normal? 2) If not
> > normal, are there any thoughts around what might be causing the
noise?
> > 3) Any recommendations for reducing the noise?
> >
> > Any feedback will be most appreciated.
>
> The G5 Powermacs have seven or nine fans in them that are controlled
by
> software. There are numerous sensors that report temperature
conditions
> inside the machine to the operating system. OS X controls the fans.
It
> speeds them up or slows them down depending on thermal needs. The
reason
> for all this is that the G5 processor runs extremely hot. If OS X
didn't
> control the fans Apple would have to make them run full tilt all the
> time. You really wouldn't like that. So the compromise is that
processor
> intensive applications like Virtual PC cause the G5 to work harder,
> generate more heat, and the fans go faster making more noise. Nature
of
> the beast.
>
> 1) The higher noise level is normal. The fans are running faster to
keep
> the system cool. This can be annoying as you have pointed out.
>
> 2) See item 1
>
> 3) Open your System Preferences panel, select the Energy Saver panel,

> select Options tab. At the bottom you will see a Processor
Performance
> option. By default it is set to Automatic. Change it to Highest. This

> will even out the fan fluctuations and generally make things quieter.
>
> Your G5 will not be damaged. It's protecting itself from overheating.
>
> --
> "There are no significant bugs in our released software that any
significant
> number of users want fixed." Bill Gates
>
> Source: Focus Magazine, nr.43, pages 206-212, (October 23, 1995)

In article <lije-AE2799.21233612032005@newsclstr01.news.prodigy.com >,
Elijah Baley <lije@foundation.org> wrote:

> It's not a bug at all. Apple did it intentionally. They changed the fan
> control software in 10.3.8.

It certainly seems like a bug. I have my CPUs running non-stop computing
stuff for distributed.net and SETI@Home. My CPU loads are even and
continuous throughout the day.

I have excellent airflow and cooling in the room, the computer is kept
as dust-free as I can make it, and has good airflow through it.
Temperatures in the computer, as indicated by the internal sensors, are
extremely stable and well within safe limits.

Still, the fans rev up occasionally for no discernable reason.

This sure smacks of a bug, not any intentional feature. If it is a
feature, I have no idea why it would be doing that.

--
Pete Stephenson
HeyPete.com

In article <1110686018.337680.61370@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups. com>,
"PLB" <sbrizz@cox.net> wrote:

> Elijah,
>
> Thanks for the useful information. One question for understanding. My
> intuition is probably wrong here, but wouldn't setting Processor
> Performance to Highest just make the G5 run hotter and hence more need
> for the noisy fan? Wouldn't going the other way an using the Reduced
> option run better???


Your intuition is correct. Setting the performance option to highest
does indeed increase overall temperatures. The fans run slightly faster
BUT they no longer rev up and down as often. Visit Apple's user forums
and look in the Powermac G5 section. There has been an on going debate
about revving fans, performance settings, etc. To some people fans that
change speeds regularly are an extreme annoyance. To others it's no big
deal (my camp). The point is Apple is still on a learning curve with the
G5 cooling systems. I expect future updates will include yet more
changes to the cooling control software as Apple fine tunes things. As
for me I'd rather have revving fans than a fried G5 processor.

For the truly curious there is an excellent shareware application called
Hardware Monitor which can be found at VersionTracker or MacUpdate. This
application reads out all the sensor information in the G5 machine. You
can see exactly how many rpm's your fans are running, the speed of the
cooling pumps (in the dual 2.5ghz G5), the temperatures inside your
machine (cpu die, hard drive bay, memory controller heat sinks, and a
bunch of other sensors). A German guy (who else but a German) wrote this
program. The price is in Euro's so it varies as the value of the Dollar
chnages. It cost me $9.73 :-) Anyway if you want to know what is going
on inside your G5 this is the utility that tells you.

--
"There are no significant bugs in our released software that any significant
number of users want fixed." Bill Gates

Source: Focus Magazine, nr.43, pages 206-212, (October 23, 1995)

In article <pete+usenet-F63F0E.20472012032005@typhoon.sonic.net>, Pete
Stephenson <pete+usenet@heypete.com> wrote:

> Still, the fans rev up occasionally for no discernable reason.
>
> This sure smacks of a bug, not any intentional feature. If it is a
> feature, I have no idea why it would be doing that.

I agree, and it is one of the reasons I have not purchased a G5 yet.

I am waiting for Apple to smooth out the fan-speed cycling.

Another reason I am not buying yet is because I use speech recognition
software, and all that fan cycling racket would mess up the speech
recognition accuracy.

I don't see why Apple did not go with one or two large diameter fans.

The larger the fan diameter, the quieter it runs. For local airflow
control, they could use computer controlled baffles of the same general
types as the baffles in automobile air conditioners.

Variable pitch fan blades would be ideal. With a cold computer and a
light load the fan blades would have zero pitch, so the blades would
essentially "coast" around making hardly any noise.

With a hot computer under maximum load, the blades would adjust to take
a maximum bite and move a lot of air. Sure, they would then make more
noise, but at least they would spin at a constant speed, not reving up
and down. They would just "grunt" a little with the bigger load.

Yes, it would be a complicated fan system, costing more, but it would
be a heck of a lot quieter than it is now.


For those really bothered by computer noise, and I am in that camp,
there is a half-ways "fix" by operating the G5 remotely.

Use Timbuktu version 8.0.1 installed on the G5, and another paid copy
on a quiet powerbook. That way I can place the noisy G5 in another
room, and control it from the powerbook.

Like I said, it is a half-ways fix, with many drawbacks.

Large as that **** G5 is anyhow, it can hardly qualify as a "personal"
computer. I look on it as more of a "server", that should be rack
mounted, instead of masquerading as a "personal computer".

Mark-

In article <pete+usenet-0D600A.14380012032005@typhoon.sonic.net>,
Pete Stephenson <pete+usenet@heypete.com> wrote:

> In article <1110665437.546947.29820@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
> "PLB" <sbrizz@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > Some questions: 1) Is this higher noise leve normal? 2) If not
> > normal, are there any thoughts around what might be causing the noise?
> > 3) Any recommendations for reducing the noise?
>
> Do you have OS 10.3.8? There seems to be a bug where the fans on a G5
> will randomly rev up to higher speeds, then drop back down. Very
> annoying, but not connected to Virtual PC.
>
> If it's something else, I've got no clue...

I have heard about that bug, but I haven't experienced it. At work, I
run virtual PC 2004 with Windows XP Pro on a dual processor 1.8Ghtz G5
with 512MB of RAM and the fans do not seem any more active than when I
load the computer down with other apps. My Mac does get very slow when I
run VPC and launch apps in Windows. Even running the installer for
Symantec's anti-virus software slows the machine down big time. I am
hoping that an additional 2GB of RAM will improve the situation,
assuming my employer agrees to purchase it for me.

In <1110665437.546947.29820@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>, PLB wrote:
> Whenever I have Virtual PC/Windows running
> my G5 becomes significantly more noisy. When running without Virtual
> PC/Windows the G5 is very quiet; however with Virtual PC/Windows
> engaged the machine is probably 2X(?) to 4X(?) more noisy.

Yep.

Emulating a different computer is a highly processor-intensive task. The
more processor-intensive a task is, the more power the processor
consumes, and the hotter it gets; the noise you're hearing the the fans
working to keep the processor cool.
--
Art, shareware, photography, polyamory, kink:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html