Help. I recently acquired a PowerMac G3 233 (yeah, I know, it's old) and
picked up a copy of OS X cheap from eBay. I put in some old SDRAM that I
had to get to 192MB and used an old 16x Plextor CD-RW in place of the Apple
CD-ROM that was in this beige box. All those changes, and my limited
knowledge of Macs, took me a month to resolve to the point where I could get
OS X to load. FYI, I think that macs and pcs are very much alike inside the
box, but the BIOS stuff I couldn't figure out on the Mac and no one would
help me.

Anyway, OS X 10.2.4 installed, at last. I configured the system to use my
networked DSL line to browse the internet. All worked without a hitch. I
loved the OS. Then I made a mistake. In standard Microsoft fashion, I used
the Apple utility to update the OS online. I upgraded to 10.2.8 and got
Safari, which seemed kind of slow on the system. I was curious if, like
Microsoft's site, there were other updates available, after the initial
update. Sure enough, there were, so I started the update. While
downloading the Java update, the system crashed. When I came back, an hour
later, the system was stuck on the downloading update screen and was
completely frozen. I attempted to restart, but this time, no restart. The
power supply fan comes on, but that's it. No drives. Not even CD-RW will do
anything. Nothing on the monitor! Even the case lights on the front panel
won't come on. I can get the fan whirling by using the keyboard start key,
but nothing else happens and I've tried every keyboard combination I can
find.

So here is my question, is the problem likely in the mobo or BIOS, or is it
just a blown power supply, so that the fan turns, but no power is output to
the mobo? Can the Mac Bios (or its equivalent) keep power from going to the
hard drive and CD-RW drive, so that they remain eternally dead? If so, how
do I reset this feature.

Who said that migrating from a pc enironment to mac would be easy? The mini
is really starting to look attractive.

Eric

On 2005-02-07 20:31:50 -0500, "JP" <jwinfieldmd@verizon.net> said:

> Who said that migrating from a pc enironment to mac would be easy? The
> mini is really starting to look attractive.

Who said installing a modern OS on an unsupported and (for your
purposes) antiquated platform would be easy. Had you installed OS8 I
doubt you would have had any issues.

I think you had best find a licensed and certified technician.

If this guy is to be believed he deserves mention in the Big Book of
Impossible Mac Installs. I have never even heard of anyone WANTING to
install X on a 266.

But good work Eric, you'll go far!

-- Gnarlie •
http://Gnarlodious.com/Entities/Computer/Cube/


Entity JP uttered this profundity:

> Help. I recently acquired a PowerMac G3 233 (yeah, I know, it's old) and
> picked up a copy of OS X cheap from eBay. I put in some old SDRAM that I
> had to get to 192MB and used an old 16x Plextor CD-RW in place of the Apple
> CD-ROM that was in this beige box. All those changes, and my limited
> knowledge of Macs, took me a month to resolve to the point where I could get
> OS X to load. FYI, I think that macs and pcs are very much alike inside the
> box, but the BIOS stuff I couldn't figure out on the Mac and no one would
> help me.
>
> Anyway, OS X 10.2.4 installed, at last. I configured the system to use my
> networked DSL line to browse the internet. All worked without a hitch. I
> loved the OS. Then I made a mistake. In standard Microsoft fashion, I used
> the Apple utility to update the OS online. I upgraded to 10.2.8 and got
> Safari, which seemed kind of slow on the system. I was curious if, like
> Microsoft's site, there were other updates available, after the initial
> update. Sure enough, there were, so I started the update. While
> downloading the Java update, the system crashed. When I came back, an hour
> later, the system was stuck on the downloading update screen and was
> completely frozen. I attempted to restart, but this time, no restart. The
> power supply fan comes on, but that's it. No drives. Not even CD-RW will do
> anything. Nothing on the monitor! Even the case lights on the front panel
> won't come on. I can get the fan whirling by using the keyboard start key,
> but nothing else happens and I've tried every keyboard combination I can
> find.
>
> So here is my question, is the problem likely in the mobo or BIOS, or is it
> just a blown power supply, so that the fan turns, but no power is output to
> the mobo? Can the Mac Bios (or its equivalent) keep power from going to the
> hard drive and CD-RW drive, so that they remain eternally dead? If so, how
> do I reset this feature.
>
> Who said that migrating from a pc enironment to mac would be easy? The mini
> is really starting to look attractive.
>
> Eric
>
>

On 2/7/05 9:41 PM, in article BE2D82E7.634C5%gnarlodious******.com,
"Gnarlodious" <gnarlodious******.com> wrote:

> If this guy is to be believed he deserves mention in the Big Book of
> Impossible Mac Installs. I have never even heard of anyone WANTING to
> install X on a 266.
>
> But good work Eric, you'll go far!
>
> -- Gnarlie •
> http://Gnarlodious.com/Entities/Computer/Cube/
>
>
> Entity JP uttered this profundity:
>
>> Help. I recently acquired a PowerMac G3 233 (yeah, I know, it's old) and
>> picked up a copy of OS X cheap from eBay. I put in some old SDRAM that I
>> had to get to 192MB and used an old 16x Plextor CD-RW in place of the Apple
>> CD-ROM that was in this beige box. All those changes, and my limited
>> knowledge of Macs, took me a month to resolve to the point where I could get
>> OS X to load. FYI, I think that macs and pcs are very much alike inside the
>> box, but the BIOS stuff I couldn't figure out on the Mac and no one would
>> help me.
>>
>> Anyway, OS X 10.2.4 installed, at last. I configured the system to use my
>> networked DSL line to browse the internet. All worked without a hitch. I
>> loved the OS. Then I made a mistake. In standard Microsoft fashion, I used
>> the Apple utility to update the OS online. I upgraded to 10.2.8 and got
>> Safari, which seemed kind of slow on the system. I was curious if, like
>> Microsoft's site, there were other updates available, after the initial
>> update. Sure enough, there were, so I started the update. While
>> downloading the Java update, the system crashed. When I came back, an hour
>> later, the system was stuck on the downloading update screen and was
>> completely frozen. I attempted to restart, but this time, no restart. The
>> power supply fan comes on, but that's it. No drives. Not even CD-RW will do
>> anything. Nothing on the monitor! Even the case lights on the front panel
>> won't come on. I can get the fan whirling by using the keyboard start key,
>> but nothing else happens and I've tried every keyboard combination I can
>> find.
>>
>> So here is my question, is the problem likely in the mobo or BIOS, or is it
>> just a blown power supply, so that the fan turns, but no power is output to
>> the mobo? Can the Mac Bios (or its equivalent) keep power from going to the
>> hard drive and CD-RW drive, so that they remain eternally dead? If so, how
>> do I reset this feature.
>>
>> Who said that migrating from a pc enironment to mac would be easy? The mini
>> is really starting to look attractive.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>

One thing I don't see mentioned. How big is the hard drive? Over 8GB? If so,
it MUST be partitioned, and OS X installed on the FIRST 8GB!!!!

BTW, I've installed 10.2.8 without difficulty on a 233. Slow, but it works!
--
Brian Ehni

>
> One thing I don't see mentioned. How big is the hard drive? Over 8GB? If so,
> it MUST be partitioned, and OS X installed on the FIRST 8GB!!!!
>
> BTW, I've installed 10.2.8 without difficulty on a 233. Slow, but it works!


I didn't read the whole message! On the motherboard, near the three PCI
slots is the CUDA chip. It is used to reset the logic board PRAM. It's a
square silver chip with a round black button. Press it for about 1 second
and release.

Then try a reboot.
--
Brian Ehni

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 01:31:50 GMT,
JP (jwinfieldmd@verizon.net) wrote:
> Help. I recently acquired a PowerMac G3 233 (yeah, I know, it's old) and
> picked up a copy of OS X cheap from eBay. I put in some old SDRAM that I
> had to get to 192MB and used an old 16x Plextor CD-RW in place of the Apple
> CD-ROM that was in this beige box.

Plug the Apple CD-ROM back in (for now).

> Anyway, OS X 10.2.4 installed, at last. I configured the system to use my
> networked DSL line to browse the internet. All worked without a hitch. I
> loved the OS. Then I made a mistake. In standard Microsoft fashion, I used
> the Apple utility to update the OS online. I upgraded to 10.2.8 and got
> Safari, which seemed kind of slow on the system. I was curious if, like
> Microsoft's site, there were other updates available, after the initial
> update. Sure enough, there were, so I started the update. While
> downloading the Java update, the system crashed. When I came back, an hour
> later, the system was stuck on the downloading update screen and was
> completely frozen. I attempted to restart, but this time, no restart. The
> power supply fan comes on, but that's it. No drives. Not even CD-RW will do
> anything. Nothing on the monitor! Even the case lights on the front panel
> won't come on. I can get the fan whirling by using the keyboard start key,
> but nothing else happens and I've tried every keyboard combination I can
> find.

I had a similar situation when updating my old G4/AGP to 10.2.8 (from
10.2.6). In my case resetting the PMU switch on the motherboard fixed
the problem. Instructions on how to do so for your computer can
be found here: <http://www.geocities.com/texas_macman/pram.html>

Also, I assume you've already done this, but if you have a drive over
8 GB, partition it so that the first partition is under 8 GB, and install
OS X on that partition.

Good luck!
Beverly

P.S. When you have everything working again, put the Plextor CD-RW
back in.
--
Many a smale maketh a grate -- Geoffrey Chaucer

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 21:49:43 -0600,
Brian Paul Ehni (behni@comcast.net) wrote:
>
>>
>> One thing I don't see mentioned. How big is the hard drive? Over 8GB? If so,
>> it MUST be partitioned, and OS X installed on the FIRST 8GB!!!!
>>
>> BTW, I've installed 10.2.8 without difficulty on a 233. Slow, but it works!
>
>
> I didn't read the whole message! On the motherboard, near the three PCI
> slots is the CUDA chip. It is used to reset the logic board PRAM. It's a
> square silver chip with a round black button. Press it for about 1 second
> and release.

Perfect advice. To the original poster -- what I called the PMU
chip is what Brian refers to as a CUDA chip here.

Beverly
--
Many a smale maketh a grate -- Geoffrey Chaucer

In article <aEUNd.10487$ya6.7304@trndny01>,
"JP" <jwinfieldmd@verizon.net> wrote:

> Anyway, OS X 10.2.4 installed, at last. I configured the system to use my
> networked DSL line to browse the internet. All worked without a hitch. I
> loved the OS. Then I made a mistake. In standard Microsoft fashion, I used
> the Apple utility to update the OS online. I upgraded to 10.2.8 and got
> Safari, which seemed kind of slow on the system. I was curious if, like
> Microsoft's site, there were other updates available, after the initial
> update. Sure enough, there were, so I started the update. While
> downloading the Java update, the system crashed. When I came back, an hour
> later, the system was stuck on the downloading update screen and was
> completely frozen. I attempted to restart, but this time, no restart. The
> power supply fan comes on, but that's it. No drives. Not even CD-RW will do
> anything. Nothing on the monitor! Even the case lights on the front panel
> won't come on. I can get the fan whirling by using the keyboard start key,
> but nothing else happens and I've tried every keyboard combination I can
> find.
>
> So here is my question, is the problem likely in the mobo or BIOS, or is it
> just a blown power supply, so that the fan turns, but no power is output to
> the mobo? Can the Mac Bios (or its equivalent) keep power from going to the
> hard drive and CD-RW drive, so that they remain eternally dead? If so, how
> do I reset this feature.

I'd get the system back as close to "stock" as possible before
proceeding. Mac OS X installers and beige G3 Powermacs have always been
an _extremely_ flaky combination. I got my beige G3 as far as 10.2.2,
and had enough trouble in the process that I resolved never to upgrade
the OS or related components on it ever again.

Frankly I think the problem is unlikely to be in any of the places that
you suggest, unless you've actually verified a power problem with a
voltmeter or something. In my experience with these Macs it's far more
likely that the OS has just gotten extremely confused. You might be
looking at a reinstall. You might be better off with XPostFacto. You
don't want to upgrade Mac OS X on this box any more than absolutely
necessary, it's a nightmare every step of the way. However it can be
somewhat less nightmarish if the system is close to what it looked like
when it came from the factory.

> Who said that migrating from a pc enironment to mac would be easy? The mini
> is really starting to look attractive.

In about 99% of cases, Mac OS X installs easily, upgrades easily, and
works well. You've stumbled onto one of the most difficult cases.
There was even a lawsuit where people with this model of Mac could get
their money back on Mac OS X.

--
Tom "Tom" Harrington
Macaroni, Automated System Maintenance for Mac OS X.
Version 2.0: Delocalize, Repair Permissions, lots more.
See http://www.atomicbird.com/

In article <2005020722250716807%rosswinn@maccom>,
Ross Winn <ross_winn@mac.com> wrote:

> On 2005-02-07 20:31:50 -0500, "JP" <jwinfieldmd@verizon.net> said:
>
> > Who said that migrating from a pc enironment to mac would be easy? The
> > mini is really starting to look attractive.
>
> Who said installing a modern OS on an unsupported and (for your
> purposes) antiquated platform would be easy. Had you installed OS8 I
> doubt you would have had any issues.
>
> I think you had best find a licensed and certified technician.

The beige G3 is a supported platform for OS 10.2.8. They didn't drop
support for the beige G3s until 10.3.

--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>

In article <BE2D82E7.634C5%gnarlodious******.com>,
Gnarlodious <gnarlodious******.com> wrote:

> If this guy is to be believed he deserves mention in the Big Book of
> Impossible Mac Installs. I have never even heard of anyone WANTING to
> install X on a 266.

I'm running MacOS X 10.2.8 just fine on a 266. (It was originally a
300, but my 300 MHz G3 chip went flaky on me, and the 266 was the only
replacement that I was easily able to obtain at that time.)

--
I hate spam, but that isn't really part of my email
address. Remove the string "HatesSpam" from this email
address before you use it: BobHatesSpam@Blaylock.to

Ever wonder what it'd be like to be a blood-sucking parasite?
http://tinyurl.com/7wxk

In article <dsample-271209.23494507022005@news.giganews.com>,
Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote:

>
> The beige G3 is a supported platform for OS 10.2.8. They didn't drop
> support for the beige G3s until 10.3.

I thought OSX on any machine without built-in USB ports was not
supported. The G3/233 did not come with built-in USB.

m-m

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 07:23:18 GMT,
M-M (nospam@ny.more) wrote:
> In article <dsample-271209.23494507022005@news.giganews.com>,
> Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> The beige G3 is a supported platform for OS 10.2.8. They didn't drop
>> support for the beige G3s until 10.3.
>
> I thought OSX on any machine without built-in USB ports was not
> supported. The G3/233 did not come with built-in USB.

You're thinking of Panther. The beige G3 is a supported platform
for Jaguar.

--
Many a smale maketh a grate -- Geoffrey Chaucer

Gnarlodious <gnarlodious******.com> wrote:

> If this guy is to be believed he deserves mention in the Big Book of
> Impossible Mac Installs. I have never even heard of anyone WANTING to
> install X on a 266.

There are loads of Beige G3s and Rev. A & B iMacs running OS X.

--
Mike Rosenberg
<http://www.macconsult.com> Macintosh consulting services for NE Florida
<http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart
Toyota Prius fans: Check out alt.autos.toyota.prius

In article <BE2D82E7.634C5%gnarlodious******.com>,
Gnarlodious <gnarlodious******.com> wrote:

> If this guy is to be believed he deserves mention in the Big Book of
> Impossible Mac Installs. I have never even heard of anyone WANTING to
> install X on a 266.

I installed 10.2 on my Beige G3 266 when it first came out. It was
*hell* but I finally got it working good. Upgraded it to 10.2.8 with no
problems. Then I put it away (in the closet) when I installed Panther
on my iBook 600. I would be afraid to do it again though <g>

--
Rodger

Thanks for advice so far. The system is actually a G3/233. No, built-in
USB ports, but it does have an add-in USB card, if that means anything.

The upgrade drive is a 27GB drive, and it took me some time and a bit of
frustration to workout the partition problem of OS X. That was an early
problem.

I've located the little CUDA button and some of you suggested, but that
hasn't altered the problem. But disconnecting the Plextor Drive from the
IDE connector allows the drive to receive power from the power supply. So
that is definitely not the problem. Power supply works! as it should if the
fan blows.

Next, I'll try it again, with the system reconfigured close to factory spec.
and see if that changes anything. Remember, I don't know if it means
anything in a mac, but the power LED still does not turn on. The
powersupply fan starts up, but that is all that happens.

I was really hoping that the CUDA switch would resolve the problem, and it's
hard to believe that with as many times as I looked in this case, I never
saw this little button. Thanks to everyone for this tip.

More suggestions are welcome. Also, if I can get this thing working again,
any suggestions for processor upgrades. Does anyone know what this
motherboard is capable of accepting or what the motherboard settings would
be or a good link to locate this type of information. I don't expect it to
be too high (based on pc experience). But if parts are cheap enough, it
might be fun to locate.

And hey, to the criticism of why do this, Why NOT! The system was otherwise
being discarded as junk. My original goal was to get it going and give it
to a reservist who was deployed, but I wasn't able to get it configured in
time, so I gave him an old pc.:-(

Now, it's just one of those problems to solve. -- Eric

"Bev A. Kupf" <bevakupf@myhome.net> wrote in message
news:slrnd0gds3.3n2.bevakupf@myhome.net...
> On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 21:49:43 -0600,
> Brian Paul Ehni (behni@comcast.net) wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> One thing I don't see mentioned. How big is the hard drive? Over 8GB? If
>>> so,
>>> it MUST be partitioned, and OS X installed on the FIRST 8GB!!!!
>>>
>>> BTW, I've installed 10.2.8 without difficulty on a 233. Slow, but it
>>> works!
>>
>>
>> I didn't read the whole message! On the motherboard, near the three PCI
>> slots is the CUDA chip. It is used to reset the logic board PRAM. It's a
>> square silver chip with a round black button. Press it for about 1 second
>> and release.
>
> Perfect advice. To the original poster -- what I called the PMU
> chip is what Brian refers to as a CUDA chip here.
>
> Beverly
> --
> Many a smale maketh a grate -- Geoffrey Chaucer