Hi there. I'm strongly considering buying one of the new G5 iMac machines,
coming from a long history of running x86 based free unices (linux,
FreeBSD) and not much history at all of running Windows :)

I realize this is also viewed as flamebait, but I'm being serious here.
It appears that the standard mouse has 2 buttons, and I can only assume
that this is "useful enough" under OSX -> I know that my usage under the
X window system is such that i make heavy use of 3 buttons to raise, lower,
roll up, etc windows. That's okay tho, clearly it is a diff OS.

I was, however, looking at perhaps going w/ the bluetooth keyboard/mouse
option but it appears the bluetooth mouse has but a single button. Given
that it is entirely likely that I'll run X applications on this mac
as well as OSX applications (if I'm understanding things correctly I can
run X on it), how the heck would a one button mouse work in that
environment? At least w/ a 2 button mouse I am assuming you can set it
up to do the "click both buttons to emulate the 3rd" setting.

Has anyone tried this setup before?

And in a general sense, could people who come from an X background who
have switched to OSX comment on the drop of usable buttons? Is it
annoying? Does it take a while to get used to? I have to imagine
that it isn't bad because supposedly the Apple types are good w/
the human factors stuff, but the question about usability in X does
concern me.

Thanks

On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:16:19 +0100, j.ester@hehxduhmp.org wrote
(in article <T0y8d.124879$wV.36493@attbi_s54>):

> Hi there. I'm strongly considering buying one of the new G5 iMac machines,
> coming from a long history of running x86 based free unices (linux,
> FreeBSD) and not much history at all of running Windows :)
>
> I realize this is also viewed as flamebait, but I'm being serious here.
> It appears that the standard mouse has 2 buttons, and I can only assume
> that this is "useful enough" under OSX -> I know that my usage under the
> X window system is such that i make heavy use of 3 buttons to raise, lower,
> roll up, etc windows. That's okay tho, clearly it is a diff OS.
>
> I was, however, looking at perhaps going w/ the bluetooth keyboard/mouse
> option but it appears the bluetooth mouse has but a single button. Given
> that it is entirely likely that I'll run X applications on this mac
> as well as OSX applications (if I'm understanding things correctly I can
> run X on it), how the heck would a one button mouse work in that
> environment? At least w/ a 2 button mouse I am assuming you can set it
> up to do the "click both buttons to emulate the 3rd" setting.
>
> Has anyone tried this setup before?
>
> And in a general sense, could people who come from an X background who
> have switched to OSX comment on the drop of usable buttons? Is it
> annoying? Does it take a while to get used to? I have to imagine
> that it isn't bad because supposedly the Apple types are good w/
> the human factors stuff, but the question about usability in X does
> concern me.
>
> Thanks

Hi,

I came from a Windows/Linux background (Linux for the last 4yrs, Windoze for
far too long before that), and haven't really had any problems at all. I've
got a PowerBook with just the one button; the right mouse button can be
emulated by holding down the CTRL key as you click (just for reference, I
bought my PowerBook in May, specifically to run Yellow Dog Linux; however,
the version available at the time wasn't supported. When the new version came
out last week, I found I was no longer interested - OS X had won me over
completely).

I've yet to need to emulate the middle mouse button. I've a wireless MS
Intellimouse Explorer, but only ever use it for games.

As far as applications go, I use mostly Mac software, and look for
Mac-specific versions wherever possible. I've not struggled to find Mac
versions of the software I wanted, though I wouldn't call OpenOffice a true
Mac version (it needs X to run). Nothing's needed a middle mouse button,
though.

As to raising/lowering windows, I tend to have a lot open and can't generally
see the window I want to switch to. However, Expose is fantastic for
switching apps, and I use it all the time. I really miss it on the Windoze
machines at work.

Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the machine you're looking for. I'm
confident it'll win you over as easily as my Mac did me.

Hope this helps,

Alihahd

In article <T0y8d.124879$wV.36493@attbi_s54>, j.ester@hehxduhmp.org
wrote:

>I was, however, looking at perhaps going w/ the bluetooth keyboard/mouse
>option but it appears the bluetooth mouse has but a single button. Given
>that it is entirely likely that I'll run X applications on this mac
>as well as OSX applications (if I'm understanding things correctly I can
>run X on it), how the heck would a one button mouse work in that
>environment? At least w/ a 2 button mouse I am assuming you can set it
>up to do the "click both buttons to emulate the 3rd" setting.

I have both for my desktop G5 and love them, especially the mouse. No
more cord tangles messing with my neatly ordered piles of paper all over
the desk.

As time goes by, you will find that much of what you used the right
click for just isn't required with a Mac. Still it's there simply by
holding down the control key. There are actually 4 modifiers from the
keyboard that change mouse, keyboard and menu functions, but they have
consistent uses and so become second nature quite soon. Shift generally
means a reverse action. Option (what you know as Alt) means to do a
similar but different action. Command for a keyboard shortcut and
Control to bring up a contextual menu.

When you first get your new machine, try this: Everything you want to
do, think about how you would like to do it if you'd never used a
computer beforeŠ odds are good, that's just how it works on a Mac.

You are no doubt going to head straight for the Terminal to play with
the UNIX. A quick illustration of how MacOS X is melded in, is to type
in a command to do something with a file... plus the usual following
space... but then instead of typing in the path name... just drag the
file and drop it onto the terminal and see the full path appear.

Welcome aboard and have fun!

--
Ron Parsons

In article <T0y8d.124879$wV.36493@attbi_s54>, j.ester@hehxduhmp.org
wrote:

> Hi there. I'm strongly considering buying one of the new G5 iMac machines,
> coming from a long history of running x86 based free unices (linux,
> FreeBSD) and not much history at all of running Windows :)
>
> I realize this is also viewed as flamebait, but I'm being serious here.
> It appears that the standard mouse has 2 buttons,

The standard mouse has 1 button.

> and I can only assume that this is "useful enough" under OSX

That is a correct assumption for the vast majority of
users/applications. However there are some programs that effectively
require more entities on the device, and many users who prefer more
buttons and/or a wheel. It's not flamebait until/unless you start
telling people they're wrong to prefer something different than you
prefer.

> I was, however, looking at perhaps going w/ the bluetooth keyboard/mouse
> option but it appears the bluetooth mouse has but a single button.

Yep. All Apple mice, always. There's quite a bit of debate in the user
and rumor communities as to whether this will change any time soon, and
quite a lot of strong opinion (that _does_ run into the flamebait arena)
on whether or not it _should_ change. (Disclosure: My preferred
configuration is 3 buttons and no wheel. I believe Apple is correct in
continuing to include a single-button mouse as the stock device at this
time. There is more evidence supporting that belief than there is
contradicting it.)

> Given
> that it is entirely likely that I'll run X applications on this mac
> as well as OSX applications (if I'm understanding things correctly I can
> run X on it),

You understand correctly.

> how the heck would a one button mouse work in that environment?

By mapping key/mouse chords onto the other buttons.

> And in a general sense, could people who come from an X background who
> have switched to OSX comment on the drop of usable buttons? Is it
> annoying? Does it take a while to get used to?

Any change is annoying and takes a while to get used to. In all
seriousness, I'd suggest picking the mouse - with no real concern for
the vendor - that you prefer. A wide variety of mice are inexpensively
available.

G

--
Change account to gw when responding by mail.

I have been using the Logitech MX900 Bluetooth optical mouse on my
iBook since about March and I love it. The drivers are not written
for Mac, but I went through a regular "setup new bluetooth device"
from within the system prefs and it has not dropped off yet. The
mouse's recharger/base is a Bluetooth base that you can connect to
your Mac via USB (if your machine is not already Bluetooth-equipped),
but with a built-in Bluetooth, you can leave it disconnected and only
have to plug the base's power cord into the wall so that you can
recharge the mouse at night.

At first, I didn't have functional use of all 8 buttons. I then
downloaded a program called "USB Overdrive" (free) which allowed me to
setup the buttons as I pleased and again, all this has been working
without a hitch for months.

I am using the Mac Bluetooth keyboard. Nice product as well. I was
very careful to turn off the battery switch on the underside of the
keyboard every night for the first few weeks until I noticed that
despite my heavy use, the battery level was still topped-out. Now I
leave it on around the clock and get about 5-6 months from a set of
batteries.

My lab/office is probably going to be upgrading to G5 Dual 2.5 (or
perhaps, higher?) boxes in a few months and everyone seems to be
planning to use the keyboard/mouse setup I am currently employing.

Hope this helps.


On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 14:16:19 GMT, j.ester@hehxduhmp.org wrote:
>
>I was, however, looking at perhaps going w/ the bluetooth keyboard/mouse
>option but it appears the bluetooth mouse has but a single button. Given
>that it is entirely likely that I'll run X applications on this mac
>as well as OSX applications (if I'm understanding things correctly I can
>run X on it), how the heck would a one button mouse work in that
>environment? At least w/ a 2 button mouse I am assuming you can set it
>up to do the "click both buttons to emulate the 3rd" setting.
>
>Has anyone tried this setup before?

j.ester@hehxduhmp.org writes:
>
> Hi there. I'm strongly considering buying one of the new G5 iMac
> machines, coming from a long history of running x86 based free
> unices (linux, FreeBSD) and not much history at all of running
> Windows :)
>
> I realize this is also viewed as flamebait, but I'm being serious here.
> It appears that the standard mouse has 2 buttons, and I can only assume
> that this is "useful enough" under OSX -> I know that my usage under the
> X window system is such that i make heavy use of 3 buttons to raise, lower,
> roll up, etc windows. That's okay tho, clearly it is a diff OS.

The standard Mac mouse is one button, not two.

The standard X11 mouse is three buttons.

The standard Windows mouse used to be two buttons, but is now two
plus a wheel. It may change again if Microsoft decides to release a
new model and hard-code the extra buttons in the Windows system
software.

> I was, however, looking at perhaps going w/ the bluetooth
> keyboard/mouse option but it appears the bluetooth mouse has but a
> single button. Given that it is entirely likely that I'll run X
> applications on this mac as well as OSX applications (if I'm
> understanding things correctly I can run X on it), how the heck
> would a one button mouse work in that environment? At least w/ a 2
> button mouse I am assuming you can set it up to do the "click both
> buttons to emulate the 3rd" setting.

All mice made by Apple have one button. The X11 server has a
preference to emulate a 3-button mouse. When the option is checked
(I think it's checked by default), you option-click for the middle
button and command-click for the right button.

Or you can buy a 3-button mouse (any USB mouse should work) and avoid
the problem.

-- David

On 2004-10-07 01:26:04 +1000, shamino@techie.com (David C.) said:

> j.ester@hehxduhmp.org writes:
>>
>> Hi there. I'm strongly considering buying one of the new G5 iMac
>> machines, coming from a long history of running x86 based free
>> unices (linux, FreeBSD) and not much history at all of running
>> Windows :)
>>
>> snip....


>> Or you can buy a 3-button mouse (any USB mouse should work) and avoid
> the problem.
>
> -- David

Or you could have a look at MacMice's Bluetooth wireless mouse;-)

--
Regards,
John D Proctor