Having problems shutting down my computer (10.2.8) with the drop down
"shut down", all my applications will close, leaving an empty
desktop,and a whirling gray gear. Had to force re start. Tried loging
out and from there shutting down, which worked. Is this the solution,or
what else might be wrong? Did the disk utility thing (repair and
verify). Next plan to optimize the disk with Norton Utilities.
--

Marshall <notmkatzman@verizon.net> writes:
>
> Having problems shutting down my computer (10.2.8) with the drop
> down "shut down", all my applications will close, leaving an empty
> desktop,and a whirling gray gear. Had to force re start.

How long did you wait? It can sometimes take a few minutes.

> Tried loging out and from there shutting down, which worked.

This should be no different from before, except that you (obviously)
don't have to wait for any apps (possibly background apps) to
shutdown.

-- David

>> How long did you wait?

At one time I let it run for at least 20 minutes.

David C. wrote:

> Marshall <notmkatzman@verizon.net> writes:
>
>>Having problems shutting down my computer (10.2.8) with the drop
>>down "shut down", all my applications will close, leaving an empty
>>desktop,and a whirling gray gear. Had to force re start.
>
>
> How long did you wait? It can sometimes take a few minutes.
>
>
>>Tried loging out and from there shutting down, which worked.
>
>
> This should be no different from before, except that you (obviously)
> don't have to wait for any apps (possibly background apps) to
> shutdown.
>
> -- David

--
http://homepage.mac.com/mkatzman/

I went to OS 9 on another drive and used Norton Speed disk to optimize.
I also deleted about 40 gig of files. Re did disk repair an verify,
rebooted on OS 10.2.8 (on my master internal drive) and now it seems to
shut down. In addition I have noticed a considerable speed improvement,
especially in launching Netscape 7.

Marshall wrote:
>>> How long did you wait?
>
>
> At one time I let it run for at least 20 minutes.
>
> David C. wrote:
>
>> Marshall <notmkatzman@verizon.net> writes:
>>
>>> Having problems shutting down my computer (10.2.8) with the drop
>>> down "shut down", all my applications will close, leaving an empty
>>> desktop,and a whirling gray gear. Had to force re start.
>>
>>
>>
>> How long did you wait? It can sometimes take a few minutes.
>>
>>
>>> Tried loging out and from there shutting down, which worked.
>>
>>
>>
>> This should be no different from before, except that you (obviously)
>> don't have to wait for any apps (possibly background apps) to
>> shutdown.
>>
>> -- David
>
>

--
http://homepage.mac.com/mkatzman/

Optimizing and trashing preferences did not help. HOWEVER, I found a
suggestion in the Panther discussions which may be the clue. I went to
my start at log in items and turned all but Virex off (removed them).
Items that were on included faxStf, iCal, Stickies, Microsoft etc. I
suspect the Fax program may have caused this. Hopefully this will work.
My other plan was to install Panther but, even though I have installed
the Firewire Drive updates I'm concerned about having to update and re
install applications like FCP, Excell etc. Any thoughts on this would be
appreciated. Thanks.

Marshall wrote:

> I went to OS 9 on another drive and used Norton Speed disk to optimize.
> I also deleted about 40 gig of files. Re did disk repair an verify,
> rebooted on OS 10.2.8 (on my master internal drive) and now it seems to
> shut down. In addition I have noticed a considerable speed improvement,
> especially in launching Netscape 7.
>
> Marshall wrote:
>
>>>> How long did you wait?
>>
>>
>>
>> At one time I let it run for at least 20 minutes.
>>
>> David C. wrote:
>>
>>> Marshall <notmkatzman@verizon.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> Having problems shutting down my computer (10.2.8) with the drop
>>>> down "shut down", all my applications will close, leaving an empty
>>>> desktop,and a whirling gray gear. Had to force re start.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How long did you wait? It can sometimes take a few minutes.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Tried loging out and from there shutting down, which worked.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This should be no different from before, except that you (obviously)
>>> don't have to wait for any apps (possibly background apps) to
>>> shutdown.
>>>
>>> -- David
>>
>>
>>
>

--
http://homepage.mac.com/mkatzman/

That did not help either.
Perhaps it is due to static electricity? Static electricity would crash
my USB hub peripherals when I touched my WACOM tablet and discharged a
spark. This may also be the reason my computer has not been shutting down.
Winter apparently is a great time for static electricity.

Marshall wrote:

> Optimizing and trashing preferences did not help. HOWEVER, I found a
> suggestion in the Panther discussions which may be the clue. I went to
> my start at log in items and turned all but Virex off (removed them).
> Items that were on included faxStf, iCal, Stickies, Microsoft etc. I
> suspect the Fax program may have caused this. Hopefully this will work.
> My other plan was to install Panther but, even though I have installed
> the Firewire Drive updates I'm concerned about having to update and re
> install applications like FCP, Excell etc. Any thoughts on this would be
> appreciated. Thanks.
>
> Marshall wrote:
>
>> I went to OS 9 on another drive and used Norton Speed disk to
>> optimize. I also deleted about 40 gig of files. Re did disk repair an
>> verify, rebooted on OS 10.2.8 (on my master internal drive) and now it
>> seems to shut down. In addition I have noticed a considerable speed
>> improvement, especially in launching Netscape 7.
>>
>> Marshall wrote:
>>
>>>>> How long did you wait?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At one time I let it run for at least 20 minutes.
>>>
>>> David C. wrote:
>>>
>>>> Marshall <notmkatzman@verizon.net> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Having problems shutting down my computer (10.2.8) with the drop
>>>>> down "shut down", all my applications will close, leaving an empty
>>>>> desktop,and a whirling gray gear. Had to force re start.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How long did you wait? It can sometimes take a few minutes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Tried loging out and from there shutting down, which worked.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This should be no different from before, except that you (obviously)
>>>> don't have to wait for any apps (possibly background apps) to
>>>> shutdown.
>>>>
>>>> -- David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

--
http://homepage.mac.com/mkatzman/

Marshall <notmkatzman@verizon.net> writes:
>
> That did not help either.
> Perhaps it is due to static electricity? Static electricity would
> crash my USB hub peripherals when I touched my WACOM tablet and
> discharged a spark. This may also be the reason my computer has not
> been shutting down.
> Winter apparently is a great time for static electricity.

Static electricity wouldn't care if you're logged in or not.

It still sounds like some program that launches when you log-in and
refuses to quit when you do a shutdown.

I think you're heading in the right direction by disabling various
background apps.

I noticed that you chose not to disable Virex. Try disabling it -
maybe it is the program that won't shut down. If you're worried
about someone hitting you with a virus while you run this test, feel
free to disconnect your Ethernet/modem wires while running the test.
(But I don't think there is any real need to worry - Macs generally
don't get hit with virusses anyway.)

-- David

David C. wrote:

> Marshall <notmkatzman@verizon.net> writes:
>
>>That did not help either.
>>Perhaps it is due to static electricity? Static electricity would
>>crash my USB hub peripherals when I touched my WACOM tablet and
>>discharged a spark. This may also be the reason my computer has not
>>been shutting down.
>>Winter apparently is a great time for static electricity.
>
>
> Static electricity wouldn't care if you're logged in or not.
>
> It still sounds like some program that launches when you log-in and
> refuses to quit when you do a shutdown.
>
> I think you're heading in the right direction by disabling various
> background apps.
>
> I noticed that you chose not to disable Virex. Try disabling it -
> maybe it is the program that won't shut down. If you're worried
> about someone hitting you with a virus while you run this test, feel
> free to disconnect your Ethernet/modem wires while running the test.
> (But I don't think there is any real need to worry - Macs generally
> don't get hit with virusses anyway.)
>
> -- David


Ever since removing my rubber soled shoes and double checking to make
sure I've discharged any static electricity I've had NO problems with
shut down.
Go figure.
This problem started with the cold weather, which apparently correlates
to increased static electricity.

--
http://homepage.mac.com/mkatzman/

in article m27jzf9x54.fsf@qqqq.invalid, David C. at shamino@techie.com wrote
on 1/25/04 8:00 PM:

> Marshall <notmkatzman@verizon.net> writes:
>>
>> Having problems shutting down my computer (10.2.8) with the drop
>> down "shut down", all my applications will close, leaving an empty
>> desktop,and a whirling gray gear. Had to force re start.
>
> How long did you wait? It can sometimes take a few minutes.
>
>> Tried loging out and from there shutting down, which worked.
>
> This should be no different from before, except that you (obviously)
> don't have to wait for any apps (possibly background apps) to
> shutdown.
>
> -- David

You might want to try repairing your "disk permissions" with Disk Utility
before doing anything else. Might solve your problem.


Kind Regards,
Nathaniel
--
flikWORLD Design
reply to: nat at flikworld(dot)com

Nathaniel Flick wrote:
> in article m27jzf9x54.fsf@qqqq.invalid, David C. at shamino@techie.com wrote
> on 1/25/04 8:00 PM:
>
>
>>Marshall <notmkatzman@verizon.net> writes:
>>
>>>Having problems shutting down my computer (10.2.8) with the drop
>>>down "shut down", all my applications will close, leaving an empty
>>>desktop,and a whirling gray gear. Had to force re start.
>>
>>How long did you wait? It can sometimes take a few minutes.
>>
>>
>>>Tried loging out and from there shutting down, which worked.
>>
>>This should be no different from before, except that you (obviously)
>>don't have to wait for any apps (possibly background apps) to
>>shutdown.
>>
>>-- David
>
>
> You might want to try repairing your "disk permissions" with Disk Utility
> before doing anything else. Might solve your problem.
>
>
> Kind Regards,
> Nathaniel

Thanks,
Tried that.
Perhaps Virex is the culprit?
Seems to shut down when I quit Virex. Tried downloading a new Virex
install but I get a message that there are no files for the install.
Maybe the download is for Panther and I'm on 10.2.8?


--
http://homepage.mac.com/mkatzman/

VIREX may have been the culprit.

Went to File>Find>Virex and trashed EVERYTHING VIREX. Down loaded a new
VIREX install and this seems to be the fix (for two days now at least).



Marshall wrote:

>
>
> Nathaniel Flick wrote:
>
>> in article m27jzf9x54.fsf@qqqq.invalid, David C. at shamino@techie.com
>> wrote
>> on 1/25/04 8:00 PM:
>>
>>
>>> Marshall <notmkatzman@verizon.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> Having problems shutting down my computer (10.2.8) with the drop
>>>> down "shut down", all my applications will close, leaving an empty
>>>> desktop,and a whirling gray gear. Had to force re start.
>>>
>>>
>>> How long did you wait? It can sometimes take a few minutes.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Tried loging out and from there shutting down, which worked.
>>>
>>>
>>> This should be no different from before, except that you (obviously)
>>> don't have to wait for any apps (possibly background apps) to
>>> shutdown.
>>>
>>> -- David
>>
>>
>>
>> You might want to try repairing your "disk permissions" with Disk Utility
>> before doing anything else. Might solve your problem.
>>
>>
>> Kind Regards, Nathaniel
>
>
> Thanks,
> Tried that.
> Perhaps Virex is the culprit?
> Seems to shut down when I quit Virex. Tried downloading a new Virex
> install but I get a message that there are no files for the install.
> Maybe the download is for Panther and I'm on 10.2.8?
>
>

--
http://homepage.mac.com/mkatzman/

FYI - In the future, try logging into the computer from another machine
via ssh. Then run top (by typing "top" - don't type the quotes) from the
command line.

If the computer hangs, you should see the offending process hanging
around. If there are a few processes running, start killing off the user
processes. User processes are pretty easy to see because they have much
higher process IDs (PIDs) and are at the top of the list.

To kill off a process use "sudo kill 12345" where 12345 is replaced by a
real PID from the list. You need to press CTRL-C to exit top and get
back to the command line.

A little trial and error with this will usually make the problem process
stick out.

I hope this is helpful.

Tony

Anthony Dellos
President/Lead Developer
Inforge Systems, LLC

Marshall wrote:

> VIREX may have been the culprit.
>
> Went to File>Find>Virex and trashed EVERYTHING VIREX. Down loaded a new
> VIREX install and this seems to be the fix (for two days now at least).
>
>
>
> Marshall wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Nathaniel Flick wrote:
>>
>>> in article m27jzf9x54.fsf@qqqq.invalid, David C. at
>>> shamino@techie.com wrote
>>> on 1/25/04 8:00 PM:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Marshall <notmkatzman@verizon.net> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Having problems shutting down my computer (10.2.8) with the drop
>>>>> down "shut down", all my applications will close, leaving an empty
>>>>> desktop,and a whirling gray gear. Had to force re start.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How long did you wait? It can sometimes take a few minutes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Tried loging out and from there shutting down, which worked.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This should be no different from before, except that you (obviously)
>>>> don't have to wait for any apps (possibly background apps) to
>>>> shutdown.
>>>>
>>>> -- David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You might want to try repairing your "disk permissions" with Disk
>>> Utility
>>> before doing anything else. Might solve your problem.
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind Regards, Nathaniel
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tried that.
>> Perhaps Virex is the culprit?
>> Seems to shut down when I quit Virex. Tried downloading a new Virex
>> install but I get a message that there are no files for the install.
>> Maybe the download is for Panther and I'm on 10.2.8?
>>
>>
>

Other than using unix commands about ten years or more ago, in order to
read my email, I have not gotten into the terminal (except to
reconfigure an mtu (?) command in order to allow me to post long
messages on newsgroups).
Thanks for the info. If re installing VIREX did not do the trick (I
think it did) I'll try your suggestion.


Anthony Dellos wrote:
> FYI - In the future, try logging into the computer from another machine
> via ssh. Then run top (by typing "top" - don't type the quotes) from the
> command line.
>
> If the computer hangs, you should see the offending process hanging
> around. If there are a few processes running, start killing off the user
> processes. User processes are pretty easy to see because they have much
> higher process IDs (PIDs) and are at the top of the list.
>
> To kill off a process use "sudo kill 12345" where 12345 is replaced by a
> real PID from the list. You need to press CTRL-C to exit top and get
> back to the command line.
>
> A little trial and error with this will usually make the problem process
> stick out.
>
> I hope this is helpful.
>
> Tony
>
> Anthony Dellos
> President/Lead Developer
> Inforge Systems, LLC
>
> Marshall wrote:
>
>> VIREX may have been the culprit.
>>
>> Went to File>Find>Virex and trashed EVERYTHING VIREX. Down loaded a
>> new VIREX install and this seems to be the fix (for two days now at
>> least).
>>
>>
>>
>> Marshall wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nathaniel Flick wrote:
>>>
>>>> in article m27jzf9x54.fsf@qqqq.invalid, David C. at
>>>> shamino@techie.com wrote
>>>> on 1/25/04 8:00 PM:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Marshall <notmkatzman@verizon.net> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Having problems shutting down my computer (10.2.8) with the drop
>>>>>> down "shut down", all my applications will close, leaving an empty
>>>>>> desktop,and a whirling gray gear. Had to force re start.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How long did you wait? It can sometimes take a few minutes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Tried loging out and from there shutting down, which worked.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This should be no different from before, except that you (obviously)
>>>>> don't have to wait for any apps (possibly background apps) to
>>>>> shutdown.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You might want to try repairing your "disk permissions" with Disk
>>>> Utility
>>>> before doing anything else. Might solve your problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kind Regards, Nathaniel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Tried that.
>>> Perhaps Virex is the culprit?
>>> Seems to shut down when I quit Virex. Tried downloading a new Virex
>>> install but I get a message that there are no files for the install.
>>> Maybe the download is for Panther and I'm on 10.2.8?
>>>
>>>
>>

--
http://homepage.mac.com/mkatzman/

Anthony Dellos <tdellos@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> FYI - In the future, try logging into the computer from another
> machine via ssh. Then run top (by typing "top" - don't type the
> quotes) from the command line.
>
> If the computer hangs, you should see the offending process hanging
> around. If there are a few processes running, start killing off the
> user processes. User processes are pretty easy to see because they
> have much higher process IDs (PIDs) and are at the top of the list.
>
> To kill off a process use "sudo kill 12345" where 12345 is replaced by
> a real PID from the list. You need to press CTRL-C to exit top and get
> back to the command line.
>
> A little trial and error with this will usually make the problem
> process stick out.

If you're killing off user-level processes, then you don't need to
use sudo. Just log in using the user ID that owns the processes (the
account logged in at the desktop.)

You can always kill your own processes, even if they are running on a
different pseudoterminal.

-- David