Hi,

we want to buy a mac for our son as that is what they use at this school.
It would be used to access the internet and run things like kidpix,
kidspiration, etc. We've never owned a mac before and know very little
about them (except they look great!).

At the school they have old imacs as desktops and powerbooks for laptops.
The older kids have wireless ibooks. We've looked on ebay and there are
plenty of old imacs at cheap prices (we're talking a primary school boy
here) but we're not sure about OS 9 vs OS X and etc. The older G3 imacs
all seem to have OS 9. If we went for such a machine would that be a
problem or do you really need to be on OS X? Do apple still support OS 9?
Are there any compatibility issues with newer software (e.g. it only runs
on OS X) or with running older software (OS 7, 8 or 9) on OSX?

Basically, is it ok to buy an older G3 imac running OS9 or should you
really get something new (or recent) that is a G4 running OSX.

We'd really appreciate the advice of those that know these systems better
than we do. (we are IT literate - we have broadband at home, a LAN an
wireless LAN and run a mix of Linux and windows. Basically, we'd like to
switch the wife and kids from windows to mac if this first experiment
works).

Thanks,

J&M

In article <pan.2003.12.12.13.51.15.359756@example.net>,
me <user@example.net> wrote:

> Basically, is it ok to buy an older G3 imac running OS9 or should you
> really get something new (or recent) that is a G4 running OSX.

Welcome to Mac community. I existed in the OS 9 and below world until
earlier this year because I didn't have a machine that could run X even
with XPostFacto (a Umax C-series clone based on the Performa 6400) but I
bought a 1st generation G4 (Sawtooth) leftover from my college's
bookstore. Please, trust me, for all the basic functions you described,
buy a late model iMac, preferably an LCD model, so you can take
advantage of OS X. Since you're IT literate, all the Unix toys lay
underneath, too, for the true geek. It's all that plus a bag of chips.

--
Pax,
Pastor Mac
On OSX
"I'd be a better Calvinist if they didn't have such a need to be right
about everything." --author Calvin Miller

In article <pan.2003.12.12.13.51.15.359756@example.net>,
me <user@example.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> we want to buy a mac for our son as that is what they use at this school.

It's a good idea even if they DON'T run them at school.

> At the school they have old imacs as desktops and powerbooks for laptops.
> The older kids have wireless ibooks. We've looked on ebay and there are
> plenty of old imacs at cheap prices (we're talking a primary school boy
> here) but we're not sure about OS 9 vs OS X and etc. The older G3 imacs
> all seem to have OS 9. If we went for such a machine would that be a
> problem or do you really need to be on OS X?

As Apple goes forward, I would have to say that the need to be on OS X
grows ever greater. The programs you mention likely run in Classic, so I
doubt there would be much of an issue there.

> Do apple still support OS 9?

In a way, but basically no.

> Are there any compatibility issues with newer software (e.g. it only runs
> on OS X) or with running older software (OS 7, 8 or 9) on OSX?

No serious ones. Certain hardware-based software (fax software,
scanner/plotter drivers) broke in the transition but the vast majority
of software EVER produced for the Mac still runs in Classic on OS X.

> Basically, is it ok to buy an older G3 imac running OS9 or should you
> really get something new (or recent) that is a G4 running OSX.

It would require some testing to be sure, but I suspect that a newer
machine with OS X and Classic would do you fine.
--
Cheers,
_Chas_
http://www.apple.com/switch
non-spammers can write to chasm at mac (dot com)

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:08:40 +0000, Pastor Mac wrote:

> In article <pan.2003.12.12.13.51.15.359756@example.net>,
> me <user@example.net> wrote:
>
>> Basically, is it ok to buy an older G3 imac running OS9 or should you
>> really get something new (or recent) that is a G4 running OSX.
>
> Welcome to Mac community. I existed in the OS 9 and below world until
> earlier this year because I didn't have a machine that could run X even
> with XPostFacto (a Umax C-series clone based on the Performa 6400) but I
> bought a 1st generation G4 (Sawtooth) leftover from my college's
> bookstore. Please, trust me, for all the basic functions you described,
> buy a late model iMac, preferably an LCD model, so you can take
> advantage of OS X. Since you're IT literate, all the Unix toys lay
> underneath, too, for the true geek. It's all that plus a bag of chips.

Thanks for the advice. We got a machine today - should be a fun xmas :-)
Is there a MAC for Newbies book (or online info) you could recommend? I'm
a linux person myself, but know windows enough, but I've never even
touched a mac before. I want to be sure I set it up right for him to use
(.e.g user accounts, etc. that sort of thing. what stuff is done as
root/admin, all those sorts of tips and conventions).

J

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 23:22:03 +0000, Charles Martin wrote:

> In article <pan.2003.12.12.13.51.15.359756@example.net>,
> me <user@example.net> wrote:

<snip>

> It would require some testing to be sure, but I suspect that a newer
> machine with OS X and Classic would do you fine.

Thanks to you too! Very helpful. See our other reply in this thread if you
can help with that question as well.

Regards,

J

In article <pan.2003.12.13.11.08.56.243013@example.net>,
me <user@example.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:08:40 +0000, Pastor Mac wrote:
>
> > In article <pan.2003.12.12.13.51.15.359756@example.net>,
> > me <user@example.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Basically, is it ok to buy an older G3 imac running OS9 or should you
> >> really get something new (or recent) that is a G4 running OSX.
> >
> > Welcome to Mac community. I existed in the OS 9 and below world until
> > earlier this year because I didn't have a machine that could run X even
> > with XPostFacto (a Umax C-series clone based on the Performa 6400) but I
> > bought a 1st generation G4 (Sawtooth) leftover from my college's
> > bookstore. Please, trust me, for all the basic functions you described,
> > buy a late model iMac, preferably an LCD model, so you can take
> > advantage of OS X. Since you're IT literate, all the Unix toys lay
> > underneath, too, for the true geek. It's all that plus a bag of chips.
>
> Thanks for the advice. We got a machine today - should be a fun xmas :-)
> Is there a MAC for Newbies book (or online info) you could recommend? I'm
> a linux person myself, but know windows enough, but I've never even
> touched a mac before. I want to be sure I set it up right for him to use
> (.e.g user accounts, etc. that sort of thing. what stuff is done as
> root/admin, all those sorts of tips and conventions).
>
David Pogue has written a series of 'The Missing Manual' books for Macs,
OS X, and other software.

Well worth checking out.

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 16:45:47 GMT, Alan Zisman <alan@nospam.zisman.ca>
wrote:

>David Pogue has written a series of 'The Missing Manual' books for Macs,
>OS X, and other software.

Yeah, Pogue is da bomb, I remember him from the days he wrote books
about Atari computers.

You will love the new macs simply because with Mac OS X you can wirelessly
network (and network with wires too!) with such ease. You will wonder why
you didn't switch over sooner.

G3 computers, for the most part, can't run OS X. At least they aren't meant
to but people have been known to do it. My advice to you is get a G4
computer with wireless hi-fi (if other students have it at your son's school
then they must have a wireless network, yes?) and have it loaded with OS X.
Apple has stopped supporting OS 9 but it still exists in the new OS X as
"Classic" so you can run apps that need OS 9 to run.

Get OS X 2 but not 3 (Panther) yet. The bugs get worked out for 6 months to
a year, then a new system comes out. That's the time to try Mac OS 10.3 (or
X.3). There are great features built in like iCal and Address Book that can
be synched to PDA's and really make your life easier, though your pre-school
son won't need to schedule much. Those were the days! :)

You can even set up your son's computer to see your pc network at home while
you switch the entire thing over. One of the best benefits about going Mac
is that you don't usually get viruses. The last mac virus happened about 10
years ago...and no more Microsoft! Unless you use their Office Suite for Mac
or Internet Explorer! :)

Here's a great web resource for all things mac osx: http://www.macosx.com.
It's a web-based discussion group for mac os 9 and X users.

Hope this helps!


Kind Regards,
Nathaniel
--
flikWORLD Design
reply to: nat at flikworld(dot)com


in article pan.2003.12.12.13.51.15.359756@example.net, me at
user@example.net wrote on 12/12/03 5:50 AM:

> Hi,
>
> we want to buy a mac for our son as that is what they use at this school.
> It would be used to access the internet and run things like kidpix,
> kidspiration, etc. We've never owned a mac before and know very little
> about them (except they look great!).
>
> At the school they have old imacs as desktops and powerbooks for laptops.
> The older kids have wireless ibooks. We've looked on ebay and there are
> plenty of old imacs at cheap prices (we're talking a primary school boy
> here) but we're not sure about OS 9 vs OS X and etc. The older G3 imacs
> all seem to have OS 9. If we went for such a machine would that be a
> problem or do you really need to be on OS X? Do apple still support OS 9?
> Are there any compatibility issues with newer software (e.g. it only runs
> on OS X) or with running older software (OS 7, 8 or 9) on OSX?
>
> Basically, is it ok to buy an older G3 imac running OS9 or should you
> really get something new (or recent) that is a G4 running OSX.
>
> We'd really appreciate the advice of those that know these systems better
> than we do. (we are IT literate - we have broadband at home, a LAN an
> wireless LAN and run a mix of Linux and windows. Basically, we'd like to
> switch the wife and kids from windows to mac if this first experiment
> works).
>
> Thanks,
>
> J&M

Hi Nat,

thanks for the great reply.

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 16:04:36 +0000, Nathaniel Flick wrote:

> You will love the new macs simply because with Mac OS X you can wirelessly
> network (and network with wires too!) with such ease. You will wonder why
> you didn't switch over sooner.

Well, I'm a linux user (desktop and laptop) so I switched away from
Micros~1 quite some time ago.

I setup the ibook tonight. It took longer than I thought, but I managed to
stumble my way through it all. I got stuck after I installed the airport
extreme in the ibook as it would not connect my existing netear mr814v2
802.11b WAP. Finally, a combination of a firmware upgrade to the
netgear, switching off WEP, and creating a location on the ibook got them
talking. Then I was able to put WEP back on, key the password in the ibook
and it's all sweet!

When I first powered the ibook on and went through the setup, it created a
user. I saw later that this was an admin user. So, after a wile, I saw how
to create another user (me), made that one admin and then set the first
user (my sone) to be standard. This was a bit of a surprise - the linux
install (redhat) does this nicer I think - it lets you create multiple
user accounts and of course, root is already there and is special.

The other thing I realised (hours later) was that the firewall is off by
default.

But, if it sounds like I'm nitpicking - I'm not. The whole experience was
fun and impressive. I'm still learning how to drive a mac though..

A few questions?

How do you get global help or search through all help topics? I'm finding
it hard to learn how to do things.

How do you do the user fast switching? I'm currently doing a full
logout/login between the accounts as I'm still playing with the setup,
etc. (e.g. switching on NTP in the clock applet, etc.).

Do you need the virus protection from .mac? I need no such thing on linux
and we certainly won't be using any MS mac apps.

The wife is now drooling over an imac with superdrive (so am I actually -
ebay here we come!).

Thanks again,

J

>
> G3 computers, for the most part, can't run OS X. At least they aren't meant
> to but people have been known to do it. My advice to you is get a G4
> computer with wireless hi-fi (if other students have it at your son's school
> then they must have a wireless network, yes?) and have it loaded with OS X.
> Apple has stopped supporting OS 9 but it still exists in the new OS X as
> "Classic" so you can run apps that need OS 9 to run.
>
> Get OS X 2 but not 3 (Panther) yet. The bugs get worked out for 6 months to
> a year, then a new system comes out. That's the time to try Mac OS 10.3 (or
> X.3). There are great features built in like iCal and Address Book that can
> be synched to PDA's and really make your life easier, though your pre-school
> son won't need to schedule much. Those were the days! :)
>
> You can even set up your son's computer to see your pc network at home while
> you switch the entire thing over. One of the best benefits about going Mac
> is that you don't usually get viruses. The last mac virus happened about 10
> years ago...and no more Microsoft! Unless you use their Office Suite for Mac
> or Internet Explorer! :)
>
> Here's a great web resource for all things mac osx: http://www.macosx.com.
> It's a web-based discussion group for mac os 9 and X users.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
>
> Kind Regards,
> Nathaniel

in article pan.2003.12.15.19.03.53.837097@example.net, me at
user@example.net wrote on 12/15/03 11:03 AM:

A few questions?
>
> How do you get global help or search through all help topics? I'm finding
> it hard to learn how to do things.
>
> How do you do the user fast switching? I'm currently doing a full
> logout/login between the accounts as I'm still playing with the setup,
> etc. (e.g. switching on NTP in the clock applet, etc.).
>
> Do you need the virus protection from .mac? I need no such thing on linux
> and we certainly won't be using any MS mac apps.
>
> The wife is now drooling over an imac with superdrive (so am I actually -
> ebay here we come!).
>
> Thanks again,

In order to get help for the entire computer, make sure you click on the
desktop first, get away from any programs or other documents you might have
open. Then click the help menu item at the top and enter your search
keywords. (Select the "Finder" icon, the little blue smiley face icon at the
top/far left of the dock.)

For fast switching I think you have to restart and choose a new user/Admin.
You can have the computer start up with this list (go to Accounts to set
this up.) Since the user preferences load on start up, I am afraid you have
to restart to have these changes go into effect. I could be wrong though.

Virus protection is not necessary, but Norton makes great virus protection
software if you like. However, there hasn't been a mac virus in about 10
years...unlike Msoft...


Kind Regards,
Nathaniel
--
flikWORLD Design
reply to: nat at flikworld(dot)com

In article <BC034927.12ED%nat@flikworld.com>,
Nathaniel Flick <nat@flikworld.com> wrote:

> in article pan.2003.12.15.19.03.53.837097@example.net, me at
> user@example.net wrote on 12/15/03 11:03 AM:
>
> A few questions?
> >
> > How do you get global help or search through all help topics? I'm finding
> > it hard to learn how to do things.
> >
> > How do you do the user fast switching? I'm currently doing a full
> > logout/login between the accounts as I'm still playing with the setup,
> > etc. (e.g. switching on NTP in the clock applet, etc.).
> >
> > Do you need the virus protection from .mac? I need no such thing on linux
> > and we certainly won't be using any MS mac apps.
> >
> > The wife is now drooling over an imac with superdrive (so am I actually -
> > ebay here we come!).
> >
> > Thanks again,
>
> In order to get help for the entire computer, make sure you click on the
> desktop first, get away from any programs or other documents you might have
> open. Then click the help menu item at the top and enter your search
> keywords. (Select the "Finder" icon, the little blue smiley face icon at the
> top/far left of the dock.)
>
> For fast switching I think you have to restart and choose a new user/Admin.
> You can have the computer start up with this list (go to Accounts to set
> this up.) Since the user preferences load on start up, I am afraid you have
> to restart to have these changes go into effect. I could be wrong though.
>

For fast user switching...
Go to System Preferences, select Accounts. Click on the Login Options at
the bottom left, then click on the box beside Enable Fast User Switching.
The user names will not be present in a drop down menu at the top right
corner of the screen. Very cool to watch the cube rotate. :)

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 19:06:49 -0500, Gary W. McIntyre wrote:

> In article <BC034927.12ED%nat@flikworld.com>,
> Nathaniel Flick <nat@flikworld.com> wrote:
>
>> in article pan.2003.12.15.19.03.53.837097@example.net, me at
>> user@example.net wrote on 12/15/03 11:03 AM:
>>
>> A few questions?
>>

<snip>

>> > How do you do the user fast switching? I'm currently doing a full
>> > logout/login between the accounts as I'm still playing with the setup,
>> > etc. (e.g. switching on NTP in the clock applet, etc.).
>> >

<snip>

>
> For fast user switching...
> Go to System Preferences, select Accounts. Click on the Login Options at
> the bottom left, then click on the box beside Enable Fast User Switching.
> The user names will not be present in a drop down menu at the top right
> corner of the screen. Very cool to watch the cube rotate. :)

Thanks! Wow - that makes for a great demo doesn't it! Can't wait to show
that to some friends :-)

J

In article <BC031B93.1225%nat@flikworld.com>,
Nathaniel Flick <nat@flikworld.com> wrote:

> G3 computers, for the most part, can't run OS X.

Bzzt! Wrong! G3 computers can run OS X just fine. There's only ONE model
of G3 computer that I know of that cannot be made to run OS X, and
that's one particular model of Powerbook.

> At least they aren't meant
> to but people have been known to do it.

Um, no. Remember the iMac? The iBook? They were all G3s for a long time,
and every model runs OS X. In fact, I'm typing this on a G3 iMac 700 and
it runs the very latest version (10.3.2) just fine thank you. Very zippy
(with 512MB RAM).

> Get OS X 2 but not 3 (Panther) yet.

More bad advice. Panther is the best OS X yet and has been a joy to use
since day 1.

> You can even set up your son's computer to see your pc network at home while
> you switch the entire thing over. One of the best benefits about going Mac
> is that you don't usually get viruses. The last mac virus happened about 10
> years ago...and no more Microsoft! Unless you use their Office Suite for Mac
> or Internet Explorer! :)

Wow, you're just a fount of inaccurate advice! You don't work for the
Bush adminstration by any chance do you?

1. There are NO viruses for Mac OS X. Zip. Zero. None. Nada. Zilch.
Zippo. 1 minus 1.

That's not to say that there will never be any viruses for OS X, or that
it is immune from security issues (though it's MANY HUNDREDS OF TIMES
BETTER than Windows in this regard), but viruses are just plain NOT AN
ISSUE at this point in time.

Saying "no more Microsoft" is really, REALLY misleading. Like it or not,
MS is probably the largest 3rd-party developer for Mac, and a lot of
people (not us, perhaps, but they're out there) would be alarmed to
think that they would be without the MS software they "depend" on and
are comfortable with, like IE, Word, Powerpoint, Excel and so on.

It would be much better to say that Microsoft stuff is OPTIONAL on a Mac.
--
Cheers,
_Chas_
http://www.apple.com/switch
non-spammers can write to chasm at mac (dot com)

In article <pan.2003.12.15.19.03.53.837097@example.net>,
me <user@example.net> wrote:

> A few questions?
>
> How do you get global help or search through all help topics? I'm finding
> it hard to learn how to do things.

Just go to the Finder (the desktop) and hit the "Help" item in the
menubar. You'll be presented with a list of all help topics.

I might recommend a good book as preferable to the help menu, which is
kind of ... incomplete. I like David Pogue's stuff, particularly OS X:
The Missing Manual (*just* updated for Panther).

> How do you do the user fast switching? I'm currently doing a full
> logout/login between the accounts as I'm still playing with the setup,
> etc. (e.g. switching on NTP in the clock applet, etc.).

Go to the "Accounts" System Preference panel (Apple Menu -> System
Preferences) and turn it on for each user. You will then see the name of
the logged-in user on the RIGHT side of the menubar. You can control the
switching from there.

> Do you need the virus protection from .mac?

Not really, no. But it's part of the package, and someone may write a
mac virus someday, so why not.
--
Cheers,
_Chas_
http://www.apple.com/switch
non-spammers can write to chasm at mac (dot com)

A "fount" of misinformation? Why don't you try spell check next time!? :)

Apple's web based info says to use G4 or higher chips with OS X. Just
because you CAN use OS X on a G3 doesn't mean you SHOULD.

Remember when OS X came out in the first place? It was for titanium
powerbooks and other G4 computers if memory serves me correctly. You don't
seem to trust what I say, however! :)

It is NOT bad advice to let other schlubs fight through bugs in Panther (and
there ARE bugs in Panther) and then upgrade when the hard sweat and toil of
bug fixes have been worked out (usually when the NEXT OS comes out.) Not bad
advice, just common sense.

Here's your best response. You didn't even read my post correctly about
Microsoft:

--[You can even set up your son's computer to see your pc network at home
while you switch the entire thing over. One of the best benefits about going
Mac is that you don't usually get viruses. The last mac virus happened about
10 years ago...and no more Microsoft! Unless you use their Office Suite for
Mac or Internet Explorer! :)

Wow, you're just a fount of inaccurate advice! You don't work for the
Bush administration by any chance do you?

1. There are NO viruses for Mac OS X. Zip. Zero. None. Nada. Zilch.
Zippo. 1 minus 1.]--

What does my line, "One of the best benefits about going Mac
is that you don't usually get viruses." mean in your language? And by the
way, are you scared of Bush? He doesn't influence my opinions in the
slightest.

Do you work for Microsoft? I can get by just fine without Word, Excel or
PowerPoint. Ever heard of apple's suite of productivity programs that do
what Msoft's programs do and more? (might want to do some reading there,
buddy.)

So Chas, before you critique a post, you might want to learn this lesson:
READ THE DARN THING FIRST.


Kind Regards,
Nathaniel
--
flikWORLD Design
reply to: nat at flikworld(dot)com






in article rubbish-6E6D92.23102618122003@newsr3.tampabay.rr.com, Charles
Martin at rubbish@bollocks.org wrote on 12/18/03 8:10 PM:

> In article <BC031B93.1225%nat@flikworld.com>,
> Nathaniel Flick <nat@flikworld.com> wrote:
>
>> G3 computers, for the most part, can't run OS X.
>
> Bzzt! Wrong! G3 computers can run OS X just fine. There's only ONE model
> of G3 computer that I know of that cannot be made to run OS X, and
> that's one particular model of Powerbook.
>
>> At least they aren't meant
>> to but people have been known to do it.
>
> Um, no. Remember the iMac? The iBook? They were all G3s for a long time,
> and every model runs OS X. In fact, I'm typing this on a G3 iMac 700 and
> it runs the very latest version (10.3.2) just fine thank you. Very zippy
> (with 512MB RAM).
>
>> Get OS X 2 but not 3 (Panther) yet.
>
> More bad advice. Panther is the best OS X yet and has been a joy to use
> since day 1.
>
>> You can even set up your son's computer to see your pc network at home while
>> you switch the entire thing over. One of the best benefits about going Mac
>> is that you don't usually get viruses. The last mac virus happened about 10
>> years ago...and no more Microsoft! Unless you use their Office Suite for Mac
>> or Internet Explorer! :)
>
> Wow, you're just a fount of inaccurate advice! You don't work for the
> Bush adminstration by any chance do you?
>
> 1. There are NO viruses for Mac OS X. Zip. Zero. None. Nada. Zilch.
> Zippo. 1 minus 1.
>
> That's not to say that there will never be any viruses for OS X, or that
> it is immune from security issues (though it's MANY HUNDREDS OF TIMES
> BETTER than Windows in this regard), but viruses are just plain NOT AN
> ISSUE at this point in time.
>
> Saying "no more Microsoft" is really, REALLY misleading. Like it or not,
> MS is probably the largest 3rd-party developer for Mac, and a lot of
> people (not us, perhaps, but they're out there) would be alarmed to
> think that they would be without the MS software they "depend" on and
> are comfortable with, like IE, Word, Powerpoint, Excel and so on.
>
> It would be much better to say that Microsoft stuff is OPTIONAL on a Mac.
> --
> Cheers,
> _Chas_
> http://www.apple.com/switch
> non-spammers can write to chasm at mac (dot com)