To comp.sys.mac, comp.sys.mac.advocacy, comp.sys.mac.apps,
comp.sys.mac.misc and comp.sys.mac.system subscribers,

>>> From: Didier A. Depireux <didier@tango.isr.umd.edu>,
>> From: Steven Fisher <sdfisher@spamcop.net>,
> From: ubaldo <ubust@goink.com>,

>>> 1) The one and only thing I can't do with Safari is webmail. It's
>>> frustrating to have to change browsers just for one thing.
>>
>> Well... make sure you report the bug using the built in bug button,
>> then. The sooner you report it, the sooner it'll get fixed. :)
>
> That is what I though. I have reported it SEVERAL times to Apple from
> day one (Safari BETA). I told them that SAFARI must be able to access
> any web like I.E. otherwise I'll need to use a PC. Never got any
> answer, nor did I see any fix.

How did you report it? As I understand it, Apple has not been responding
to any bug or feature requests submitted through the Safari 'bug
button' as per their policy on unsolicited feedback.

If the site you're accessing uses W3C technologies that Safari doesn't
support in 1.0, then you're right, Apple needs to move on it. If, OTOH,
the site uses proprietry Microsoft technologies (ActiveX, VBScript,
etc.), then you'll still need IE for Windows no matter what; IE for Mac
has very little of these technologies available in it.

> By the way, that is actually what Microsoft is doing. No more MAC I.E.
> will mean that we will all need to use PC to access 97% of the
> servers/web. That has always been their strategy, the more so since
> they won their legal battle!

They have to offer solutions hugely compelling against those from IBM,
Sun, Oracle, and Linux/BSD vendors offering Apache (of which Apple is
one). IIS has garnered a reputation for making life difficult in
multiplatform environments and for being extremely insecure, whether or
not deserved. With Apache still leading the way, I think we can expect
the web to be driven primarily by W3C technologies for at least awhile
longer.

You are correct about Microsoft continuing their old strategy, though.
And it's a rawer deal for their own customers: want the new IE? Have to
purchase the new OS as well!

> Here are my main problems:
>
> 1) There are certain secure web (SSL) that I cannot access using
> SAFARI but they work OK with I.E. 5.1 or 5.2 either from a Mac or PC.

What are those sites using for authentication? They may be relying on
Microsoft's authentication scheme, only available in IE. If it works in
Mozilla/NetScape/Firebird/Camino, then you know it's not.

> 2) I want to "print" my statement from a Bank web. No way to do it
> from my Mac either with Safari or with I.E.5.2 (!!!) Then, I tried
> with a PC, and... bingo, I got it printed right away. Why?

Triggering a print is done through scripting. If the page is doing it
through VBScript, or is using Microsoft's implementation of JavaScript
(given that implementations of JS are still different across all
vendors), then this would fit the behaviour you describe.

The whole point of W3C standards is to ensure platform- and
device-independance for hypertext documents. Netscape "added" features
just as Microsoft "added" features after them to differentiate their
browsers from the competition, on the grounds that interoperability is
a threat to their business interests, and not an acceptable basis on
which to build their Internet technologies.

Fortunately, the world has grown too big too quickly for any vendor to
control, even Microsoft, and for public use documents have to be
interoperable so that consumers can access them through any device.
Witness Microsoft's 'focus shift' from Internet technologies (IE for
Windows essentially works with the standards now as intended) to
security technologies (Palladium etc.) as the new market battleground.
IT Security is a rising industry, and Microsoft is in the thick of it,
hoping to take home the biggest piece of the pie.

Meanwhile, the browser market is slowly recovering from the aftermath of
the IE/Communicator battles, and on the Mac specifically it will take a
little while for the Safari 'shockwave' to dissipate. When that
happens, we might see at least a modicum of true interoperability
across just about all of the WWW - or at least, across the sites that
are in English (I don't read any other languages fluently, so I won't
comment on the interoperability of sites in other languages).

digitaleon.

ubaldo wrote:

> Here are my main problems:
>
> 1) There are certain secure web (SSL) that I cannot access using
> SAFARI but they work OK with I.E. 5.1 or 5.2 either from a Mac or PC.
never ran into one myself...



> 2) I want to "print" my statement from a Bank web. No way to do it
> from my Mac either with Safari or with I.E.5.2 (!!!) Then, I tried
> with a PC, and... bingo, I got it printed right away. Why?
> Note: my MAC and PC are all networked and connected to a HP 5MP.
again not ever a poblem, worse case -
take a screen shot and print that

> 3) Try this one: http://www.wvfc.org/index.html with Safari I cannot
> use the left side menu. While with I.E. all works fine. Why? I cannot
> ask the webmaster to modify his web, but I surely would expect Apple
> to fix it once I told them about this strange, non standard,
> behaviour.
This site does not work in Safari -
BUT
it does work in Netscape 7

I have had issues with Safari and frames - often (although not in this
case), you can often right click (control click) on the frame link and
open in a new page and things then work.

Last - why can you not request a change to the web site design?
I do it all the time - this does not mean that they will make the
change, but often the web site will.

> Any suggestion? Thanks