Chad,

As always, you take the time to make your points and they stick to the wall,
imho. I think it's so unfortunate that some folks in here misconstrue your
intent. Unfortunate for them, that is. I think that your intent is to do the
best job you can beta testing... and I, for one, find no fault with that,
period.

I came into the beta late... I did what I could to report the bugs I found.
Six is not an awful lot, I'll admit, but what I found I reported. Using the
tools I was asked to use. And, like yourself, I had no expectation of
getting anything free out of it.

I understand your frustration at having worked so hard at getting it, Vista,
right, and feeling that it's not. You did your job... stand tall.

I have not participated in any SP betas yet. I know our group didn't do any
beta testing for XP SP2. Should have, no doubt, but it didn't happen, for
whatever reason.

I haven't checked the MSDN and TechNet blogs... one thing I found odd was
that I just signed up for the Connect NG's and there's like absolutely no
traffic in there... most NG's have a single msg welcoming folks to that NG
and many have like 3 msg since 05. Weird.

But you know... I don't think the job of testing Vista is done just because
they've declared RTM regardless of what anyone says about it being ready or
not. I think, maybe, now is the time to pound on it harder than ever and
scream bloody murder for fixes. That's my plan. For good or ill. Free or no
free.

Lang


"Chad Harris" <Vista RTM is really Beta 1.net> wrote in message
news:OH%23OX2%23CHHA.3228@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
>I agree--
>
> My comments on this thread had little if anything to do with "getting free
> software from MSFT--that's not even in the equation when a lot of us Beta
> test. It's so not a factor.
>
> Most of us who were avid to get hold of the Beta back in July '05 wanted
> to see what was there, how we could fix it, hopefully how we could improve
> it--along the lines that Robert Firth and you wrote about, and have
> written about well. I have few items I know I got them to fix/change
> because I have the direct feedback from the particular teams and was able
> to see change from build to build I feel very good about in that one of
> them is going to make some hardware and printers usuable with drivers that
> would have vexed and made a number of people buy new peripherals that they
> won't need to buy at all during the reign of Vista.
>
>
> You and xfile made comments about testing the Beta whether you're a TBT
> or not to see how the next OS will work for your needs and I'm in
> agreement. Sure a lot of us made great bug reports with every criteria
> they asked for in those videos and beyond, well screenshooted and
> communicated with them even outside the context of the bug reports, and
> they just didn't get around to executing what would have been objectively
> necessary fixes at times. That they could have and didn't does bother me a
> great deal.
>
> I don't know how you perceive this Lang but if you take every version of
> Windows since the start, when there have been major functionality
> problems, it has been rare for an MSKB or an SP rollup to fix them. They
> are for the most part security vulnerability fixes and you and I both
> looked closely at what happened as XP SP2 rolled out. A lof of us who are
> interested participate in Betas for the SPs as well when they happen.
>
> I remember the one for XP SP2.
>
> In addition to making the OS better, and trying it to see how it evolved,
> I didn't want to have to address so many **** issues for the next five
> years until Blackcomb/Vienna/Figi whatevah starts its Alpha and Beta. And
> now sadly I am.
>
> Maybe since Jim Allchin has picked up the blogging bug, Jim will push some
> fixes even away from MSFT since he's still going to be immersed in
> watching and hacking his own Windows.
>
> This is the first OS I notice that RTMs in the midst of an active, vibrant
> MSDN and Technet "blogosphere" to use a Redmonesque word, so that I see as
> a real plus. That offers an additional parallel strong ancillary line of
> communication and support on in depth Vista and LH server issues
>
> CH
>
> "Lang Murphy" <lang_murphy********.com> wrote in message
> news:A7D7DB75-E930-44A5-B159-499D988FD845@microsoft.com...[color=green]
>> CH,
>>
>> And... might one not consider that the MSDN and Tech guys paid pretty
>> serious money to be in those programs? CPP was totally free. I sure
>> didn't stick a 12 gauge, or any other gauge gun, in anyone's cakehole to
>> get them to try Vista for free. So now all the malcontents that've been
>> bitching about Vista want a free copy. Hahahaha.
>>
>> I mean... I'm sure there are CPP guys and gals who deserve a free copy.
>> Maybe MS should create a different set of requirements for those folks
>> to get a free copy. And not publish it to the world. Although I'm sure if
>> they did that, change the requirements, the requirements would get out
>> and those that just missed them would be most put out. I don't know...
>> just rambling at this point.... but I am sure there are CPP folks who
>> probably deserve a free copy. Doubt that Ballmer would agree with that,
>> though...
>>
>> I got the RTM code and installed it on 3 work PC's. I'd love to get a
>> free copy, as a TBT, to upgrade my personal PC. Time'll tell...
>>
>> Lang
>>
>>
>>
>> "Chad Harris" <Vista RTM is really Beta 1.net> wrote in message
>> news:eo8pfS2CHHA.1012@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>> Richard--
>>>
>>> Sounds like play to me. What about all those cry babies on the
>>> Vista/Longhorn Beta group Cafe and General groups posting hundreds of
>>> times
>>> a week "Mommy Mommy Wendy pullleasssse gimme a new build. What work
>>> ethic
>>> was that?
>>>
>>> It looked like Pre-School 101 to me. Think any of them were
>>> housebroken?
>>>
>>> BTW every one of these people felt like they were part of a chosen tribe
>>> and
>>> this psychology was fed by MSFT. I missed the scenario where any of
>>> them
>>> had a 12 gauge shotgun stuffed in their mouth and forced to test. Help
>>> me
>>> find that one.
>>>
>>> CH
>>>
>>>
>>> "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS********.com> wrote in message
>>> news:%233hRqezCHHA.4464@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>>> "Jon Acord" <JOn@theacords.biz> wrote in message
>>>> news:53678CBE-647E-45B3-A516-7B6548691DF8@microsoft.com...
>>>>> It's been a long road helping Micro$oft beta test Vi$ta. I've been
>>>>> doing
>>>>> it
>>>>> since it was called Longhorn. I have submitted Just under a dozen bug
>>>>> reports. I have installed and uninstalled it more times than I care
>>>>> to
>>>>> remember in my zeal and enthusiasm. I have believed in this product
>>>>> when
>>>>> no
>>>>> one else did. When I hear that Micro$oft is giving away
>>>>> 'complimentary'
>>>>> copies only to MSDN and TechNet subscribers I felt as if someone had
>>>>> slapped
>>>>> my face. So, just because I tested Vi$ta VIA the customer preview
>>>>> program
>>>>> I
>>>>> am screwed out of my gift? I feel I have earned a copy. You mean,
>>>>> because I
>>>>> did not pay Micro$oft a $600.00 subscription fee to beta test and
>>>>> better
>>>>> their software I am beneath their notice? This is typical of a large,
>>>>> bloated, corporate monster that does not care one iota about the
>>>>> people
>>>>> who
>>>>> made them their most precious $$$. This proves that Micro$oft does
>>>>> not
>>>>> have
>>>>> a heart, all they care about is money.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------
>>>>> This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
>>>>> suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click
>>>>> the
>>>>> "I
>>>>> Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button,
>>>>> follow
>>>>> this
>>>>> link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and
>>>>> then
>>>>> click "I Agree" in the message pane.
>>>>>
>>>>> [url]http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.mspx?mid=53678cbe-647e-45b3-a516-7b6548691df8&dg=microsoft.public.windows.vista.general[/url]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are "NOT" a beta tester unless you signed on as such. Getting Vista
>>>> from the CCP site was just an opportunity for you to try it out. Some
>>>> true
>>>> beta testers were reloading their operating systems on an almost daily
>>>> basis. It took a lot of work, no play. They had to dedicate a large
>>>> part
>>>> of their daily hours to this task (not play).
>>>>
>>>> I know of one fellow who sometimes loaded 2 times a day when he got
>>>> word
>>>> of a newer version.
>>>>
>>>> Again, you are owed NOTHING - period!
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Richard Urban
>>>> Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
>>>> (For email, remove the obvious from my address)
>>>>
>>>> Quote from George Ankner:
>>>> If you knew as much as you think you know,
>>>> You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>[/color]
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]