This makes plenty of sense. The people who were enjoying themselves and
spending a good deal of testing who I read were deeply into the Windows OS.
So you're absolutely right--it is way off the mark to characterize most Beta
testers who are very enthusiastic about the OS and what they will find new
and pulling together to get it to as good as they can get along with a
couple thousand people at Redmond or so.

The least thing on their mind was coping a free copy of Vista or anything
else actually I agree. But since there seemed to be a bit of elitist
attack on the people who didn't get the chance to Beta test intermittently,
sporadically and chronically on this group and often by MVPs or advanced
users which surprises me a bit as to their motive for even flexing their
fingers to type that kind of thing, I felt a little obliged to defend the
many people who could have been high quality TBTs but simply didn't get the
chance.

I do believe that what Brannigan doesn't come out and say here but has said
before on groups is that people who have tested previously have a better
chance for the two plum assignments out of the 200 plus Betas MSFT
offers--and for those who haven't, it's an uphill climb Robert as to how
they "break in" or demonstrate they can file quality bugs when they have no
opportunity to do so, since the OS only comes along every few years.

I also know that many of the apps Connect offers people to test have nothing
whatsoever to do with their daily routine. I've gotten offers for all kinds
of enterprise servers that I don't use, and have no way to ever use, and
I'm sure many others have as well.

CH




The vast majority of those people would get more enjoyment from solving a
setup problem or learning a trick or two on using BCDETIT, or or any of
dozens of problems in Vista or any other OS than they would from the gift of
Vista and your points are well taken.


"Robert Firth" <webmaster@winvistainfo.org> wrote in message
news:57C07AAF-38AA-46C9-A8F2-63A02702D421@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> Well, you have to take the bad with the good. All the 'regulars' in the
> newsgroups, the most active participants, seemed to discourage talk about
> "will we get rtm", "when will we get rtm". Of course, with the offer of a
> free copy of vista, testers have come out to ask for the free copy, even
> though they didn't send in any feedback. Those who have worked hard and
> have participated in the newsgroups and feature foci find this 'cry baby'
> mess annoying. I will admit that some errors could have been made, but I'd
> guess the majority of those asking didn't participate.
>
> Try not to 'discrimitate' against a whole group of 30,000 people based on
> the postings of a few hundred. I'd argue that a significant number of
> people in the group has helped in their own way.
>
> Although I can't truely speak for the rest, I can say that I have
> submitted a good number of bugs, mostly though the CPP but also several
> through the tech beta. I really wasn't expecting a free copy of vista
> because from my point of view that would be asking way to much for
> volunteer work. However, I most certainly didn't turn the offer down when
> it was made available.
>
> I will admit that what many people have done is childish. In fact, some of
> it was plain stupid. It is impossible to go through life without coming
> across a few selfish people.
>
> Robert Firth
> [url]http://www.winvistainfo.org[/url]
>
>
> "Chad Harris" <Vista RTM is really Beta 1.net> wrote in message
> news:eo8pfS2CHHA.1012@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> Richard--
>>
>> Sounds like play to me. What about all those cry babies on the
>> Vista/Longhorn Beta group Cafe and General groups posting hundreds of
>> times
>> a week "Mommy Mommy Wendy pullleasssse gimme a new build. What work ethic
>> was that?
>>
>> It looked like Pre-School 101 to me. Think any of them were housebroken?
>>
>> BTW every one of these people felt like they were part of a chosen tribe
>> and
>> this psychology was fed by MSFT. I missed the scenario where any of them
>> had a 12 gauge shotgun stuffed in their mouth and forced to test. Help
>> me
>> find that one.
>>
>> CH
>>
>>
>> "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS********.com> wrote in message
>> news:%233hRqezCHHA.4464@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>> "Jon Acord" <JOn@theacords.biz> wrote in message
>>> news:53678CBE-647E-45B3-A516-7B6548691DF8@microsoft.com...
>>>> It's been a long road helping Micro$oft beta test Vi$ta. I've been
>>>> doing
>>>> it
>>>> since it was called Longhorn. I have submitted Just under a dozen bug
>>>> reports. I have installed and uninstalled it more times than I care to
>>>> remember in my zeal and enthusiasm. I have believed in this product
>>>> when
>>>> no
>>>> one else did. When I hear that Micro$oft is giving away
>>>> 'complimentary'
>>>> copies only to MSDN and TechNet subscribers I felt as if someone had
>>>> slapped
>>>> my face. So, just because I tested Vi$ta VIA the customer preview
>>>> program
>>>> I
>>>> am screwed out of my gift? I feel I have earned a copy. You mean,
>>>> because I
>>>> did not pay Micro$oft a $600.00 subscription fee to beta test and
>>>> better
>>>> their software I am beneath their notice? This is typical of a large,
>>>> bloated, corporate monster that does not care one iota about the people
>>>> who
>>>> made them their most precious $$$. This proves that Micro$oft does not
>>>> have
>>>> a heart, all they care about is money.
>>>>
>>>> ----------------
>>>> This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
>>>> suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the
>>>> "I
>>>> Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
>>>> this
>>>> link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and
>>>> then
>>>> click "I Agree" in the message pane.
>>>>
>>>> [url]http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.mspx?mid=53678cbe-647e-45b3-a516-7b6548691df8&dg=microsoft.public.windows.vista.general[/url]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You are "NOT" a beta tester unless you signed on as such. Getting Vista
>>> from the CCP site was just an opportunity for you to try it out. Some
>>> true
>>> beta testers were reloading their operating systems on an almost daily
>>> basis. It took a lot of work, no play. They had to dedicate a large part
>>> of their daily hours to this task (not play).
>>>
>>> I know of one fellow who sometimes loaded 2 times a day when he got word
>>> of a newer version.
>>>
>>> Again, you are owed NOTHING - period!
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Richard Urban
>>> Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
>>> (For email, remove the obvious from my address)
>>>
>>> Quote from George Ankner:
>>> If you knew as much as you think you know,
>>> You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
>>>[/color]
>>
>>
>>[/color]
>[/color]