Mike Brannigan wrote:[color=blue]
> Mike Brannigan
> "##Alias##" <aka@masked&anonymous.ec> wrote in message
> news:%23AEeEwj7IHA.3624@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> Mike Brannigan wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> Mike Brannigan
>>> "##Alias##" <aka@masked&anonymous.ec> wrote in message
>>> news:eGTFyaj7IHA.3696@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>> Mike Brannigan wrote:
>>>>> "Munchichic" <Munchichic@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
>>>>> message news:7603593E-14EB-4C8F-BCEE-DB8A4456BB24@microsoft.com...
>>>>>> Hi Everyone. I realize this may be a "touchy" subject but I need
>>>>>> to ask.
>>>>>> After a massive computer failure I just bought a new Dell XPS 420
>>>>>> desktop PC.
>>>>>> My first Dell purchase. It came preloaded with Microsoft Vista
>>>>>> Home Premium.
>>>>>> I asked Dell for an original Microsoft installation CD as a
>>>>>> backup. They
>>>>>> refused. I have several friends and relatives who purchased Dell
>>>>>> computers
>>>>>> and many of them requested the same disc from Dell and received it
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> incident (some within the last 2 months). I think I should be
>>>>>> entitled to a
>>>>>> copy of the installation CD and not one that is from Dell
>>>>>> preloaded with a
>>>>>> bunch of Dell crap on it. Why can't I receive an original Windows
>>>>>> CD like
>>>>>> everyone else has requested? Am I asking the wrong person? What am
>>>>>> I doing
>>>>>> wrong? Any help is appreciated. I just spent $1000 on this new
>>>>>> computer and
>>>>>> think that should entitle me to the Windows OS disc (and I expect
>>>>>> it will
>>>>>> have the same product key that was used to install on my new
>>>>>> Dell). Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dell have done nothing wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Of course not, ripping people off as long as Microsoft approves it
>>>> is just fine and dandy.
>>>>
>>>> Snip long winded justification for the rip off.
>>>>
>>>> Alias
>>>
>>> Where's the rip off?
>>> The buyer of a Dell PC gets a machine preinstalled with Windows and
>>> whatever else Dell want to put on there.
>>> And then they provide you with a method to get it back to just as you
>>> bought it.
>>> No one is promised anything else. What else do you expect and why ?
>>> And in particular why do you think you need or should have anything
>>> more then to get the machine back to exactly as how you got it when
>>> you ordered it ?[/color]
>>
>> You see, the scam is so generalized that you think it's normal to load
>> a computer with crap and sell it without providing a real copy of
>> Windows. Dell, Microsoft and the boys know that most people are not
>> aware of what's being done so they take full and complete advantage of
>> their ignorance and shills like you defend it. The proper way to sell
>> a machine is to include a copy of Windows and a CD with all the
>> drivers without trial crap that in many cases is a real PIA to remove.
>> But, hell, MS is happy; Dell is happy; the vendors of programs like
>> Norton are happy and the computer user is screwed but three out of
>> four ain't bad, right? And MS prices it so that white box makers, who
>> really provide what should be provided, have a hard time competing.
>>
>> Alias[/color]
>
> You do get a real (genuine) copy of Windows - it is preinstalled.[/color]

One of my points.
[color=blue]
> Most people do not want or need a generic OS DVD as they have no need to
> move themselves out of support by doing anything other then recovering
> to as
> shipped.[/color]

You speak for Mike, not for "most people" and it should be shipped with
a recovery CD that includes the OS and the drivers for the hardware,
nothing more.
[color=blue]
> You need to stop thinking about your own situation as a none standard user
> who may do OS reinstalls etc, and remember the millions of PC users who
> just
> use the device and don't do any reinstalls etc.[/color]

LOL! You don't get out much, do you?
[color=blue]
> Why do you think "the computer user is screwed"? they get the machine they
> get an OS at a tiny fraction of what they would have paid retail then
> get it
> preconfigured and ready to use of the the box with additional software that
> many may find useful (and those that do not can either just delete the
> icons
> or uninstall it) and the only people here complaining are ones like you who
> are the exception to the vast majority of PC users today.[/color]

This and the office newsgroups are full of complaints about the trial
software like Office 07, Norton and McAfee.
[color=blue]
> (Yes I realize
> that a number of years ago the techie user was the predominant PC user but
> not today).[/color]

That was many, many years ago, like over a decade.
[color=blue]
> Microsoft may price their OS as they see fit (with large scale royalty
> OEMs,
> generic OEM products in multiple packs, or singles and retail products too)
> to recover the massive R&D costs and to incentivize OEMs to ship their OS.
> There is no point bitching that the white box manufacturer who may wish to
> ship a few Windows here and there as well as sell other OS or none OS
> machines
> should be given the same pricing as a massive royalty OEM who commits to
> ship tens of thousands of systems. This is no different to the purchase of
> a single retail copy of Office for $x00's dollars vs a large company
> getting
> an Enterprise Agreement for 20,000 seats and paying the equivalent of $x0's
> dollars. This is just market forces at work (Microsoft can depend on the
> revenue stream from a royalty OEM or Enterprise Agreements but retail and
> one offs are not great business sense.)[/color]

Nice try but it's still a rip off and the scam is predicated on the
purchaser's ignorance. Hence this and other newsgroups are full of
complaints.

Alias